Mercedes AMG, BMW M, Audi RS - Who's heritage do you prefer?
Discussion
Had long discussions with my friends last night regarding who's high performance division was 'the best' and reading the AMG greatest hits thread this morning got me re thinking. There is no definitive answer to who is best of course, but we did chat about which brand (of the three big Germans) had the most influence on cars of all manufacturers from the 80s right through to where we are now, and which division had progressed the most in terms of desirability - and it was quite an interesting one! ..Which never ended.
We did agree on the following:
Mercedes AMG ''Excitement/Drama'' - Re known for very large displacement engines, typically V8s, rammed into 'average' Mercedes models for high power and torque with lots of naughty noises and all through the rear wheels. The German muscle car with 5 doors which i'd say influenced more 'hooligan' saloons throughout the 90s and 00's from other manufacturers too. Worthy mentions are anything with the brilliant M156 6.2 N/A V8, CLK GTR, W124 'Hammer' , 190e Cosworth, C63, SLS and CLK Black series, and so forth.
BMW M - ''Precision & 'dynamic driving'' where handling was just as important as power, design and style. M cars seemed to influence reasonably powerful, but more importantly better handling than rivals in the forms of coupes and saloons. Icons include the E30 & E46 M3, E60 & E35 M5, E24 635CSI, 1M, M1 etc.
Audi RS - ''Balance of Power, Handling and Practicality'' - we concluded as Audi RS's being a bit bland compared to the others with only the real exception being the C7 RS6. No doubt the RS2 influenced the super estates we have now, but we couldn't think much of the heritage of Audi RS. Four wheel drive and bland steering dynamics may have taken away from excitement or driver involvement. Worthy mentions include the Audi Quattro, RS2, B6/B7 RS4, V6/C7 RS6,
Because of the above, over the years we saw rivals spawn such as Jaguar's XJ-R, Lexus IS-F, and now even from Alfa with the Quadrifoglio which all took on Germans Elite 3.
Whats your opinion?
We did agree on the following:
Mercedes AMG ''Excitement/Drama'' - Re known for very large displacement engines, typically V8s, rammed into 'average' Mercedes models for high power and torque with lots of naughty noises and all through the rear wheels. The German muscle car with 5 doors which i'd say influenced more 'hooligan' saloons throughout the 90s and 00's from other manufacturers too. Worthy mentions are anything with the brilliant M156 6.2 N/A V8, CLK GTR, W124 'Hammer' , 190e Cosworth, C63, SLS and CLK Black series, and so forth.
BMW M - ''Precision & 'dynamic driving'' where handling was just as important as power, design and style. M cars seemed to influence reasonably powerful, but more importantly better handling than rivals in the forms of coupes and saloons. Icons include the E30 & E46 M3, E60 & E35 M5, E24 635CSI, 1M, M1 etc.
Audi RS - ''Balance of Power, Handling and Practicality'' - we concluded as Audi RS's being a bit bland compared to the others with only the real exception being the C7 RS6. No doubt the RS2 influenced the super estates we have now, but we couldn't think much of the heritage of Audi RS. Four wheel drive and bland steering dynamics may have taken away from excitement or driver involvement. Worthy mentions include the Audi Quattro, RS2, B6/B7 RS4, V6/C7 RS6,
Because of the above, over the years we saw rivals spawn such as Jaguar's XJ-R, Lexus IS-F, and now even from Alfa with the Quadrifoglio which all took on Germans Elite 3.
Whats your opinion?
I've never owned a BMW, Merc, Audi - much less their performance division models - so I offer my opinion as a non-owner.
Audis (even in RS form) seem to fall into the 'competent but unimaginative' camp. Technically they are the equal of any other manufacturer - but in terms of character none of their offerings interest me whatsoever.
Mercedes AMG offer a European Muscle car with their own take on it - very loud, shouty and in-your-face in an old-school kind of way. The Black cars always came across as especially mental - which probably appeals to the loutish petrolhead in me.
BMW M Cars probably fall somewhere in between the two and would be my preference if I ever had that kind of money and/or opportunity. Probably more tempted by the older stuff like the E60 M5 and E46 M3 than the latest offerings.
From the point of view when spanner-twirling - whenever I've come across BMW engineering/tech (either working on them directly or indirectly when employed in other vehicles I've owned) I've been impressed at the way they're screwed together even on base cooking models - so their high-end stuff must be at least as good if not better, surely?
Audis (even in RS form) seem to fall into the 'competent but unimaginative' camp. Technically they are the equal of any other manufacturer - but in terms of character none of their offerings interest me whatsoever.
Mercedes AMG offer a European Muscle car with their own take on it - very loud, shouty and in-your-face in an old-school kind of way. The Black cars always came across as especially mental - which probably appeals to the loutish petrolhead in me.
BMW M Cars probably fall somewhere in between the two and would be my preference if I ever had that kind of money and/or opportunity. Probably more tempted by the older stuff like the E60 M5 and E46 M3 than the latest offerings.
From the point of view when spanner-twirling - whenever I've come across BMW engineering/tech (either working on them directly or indirectly when employed in other vehicles I've owned) I've been impressed at the way they're screwed together even on base cooking models - so their high-end stuff must be at least as good if not better, surely?
irfan1712 said:
Had long discussions with my friends last night regarding who's high performance division was 'the best' and reading the AMG greatest hits thread this morning got me re thinking. There is no definitive answer to who is best of course, but we did chat about which brand (of the three big Germans) had the most influence on cars of all manufacturers from the 80s right through to where we are now, and which division had progressed the most in terms of desirability - and it was quite an interesting one! ..Which never ended.
We did agree on the following:
Mercedes AMG ''Excitement/Drama'' - Re known for very large displacement engines, typically V8s, rammed into 'average' Mercedes models for high power and torque with lots of naughty noises and all through the rear wheels. The German muscle car with 5 doors which i'd say influenced more 'hooligan' saloons throughout the 90s and 00's from other manufacturers too. Worthy mentions are anything with the brilliant M156 6.2 N/A V8, CLK GTR, W124 'Hammer' , 190e Cosworth, C63, SLS and CLK Black series, and so forth.
BMW M - ''Precision & 'dynamic driving'' where handling was just as important as power, design and style. M cars seemed to influence reasonably powerful, but more importantly better handling than rivals in the forms of coupes and saloons. Icons include the E30 & E46 M3, E60 & E35 M5, E24 635CSI, 1M, M1 etc.
Audi RS - ''Balance of Power, Handling and Practicality'' - we concluded as Audi RS's being a bit bland compared to the others with only the real exception being the C7 RS6. No doubt the RS2 influenced the super estates we have now, but we couldn't think much of the heritage of Audi RS. Four wheel drive and bland steering dynamics may have taken away from excitement or driver involvement. Worthy mentions include the Audi Quattro, RS2, B6/B7 RS4, V6/C7 RS6,
Because of the above, over the years we saw rivals spawn such as Jaguar's XJ-R, Lexus IS-F, and now even from Alfa with the Quadrifoglio which all took on Germans Elite 3.
Whats your opinion?
Was Audi RS about in the 80s? Just Quattro back then wasn't it? Ford and Porsche pre-date Audi surelyWe did agree on the following:
Mercedes AMG ''Excitement/Drama'' - Re known for very large displacement engines, typically V8s, rammed into 'average' Mercedes models for high power and torque with lots of naughty noises and all through the rear wheels. The German muscle car with 5 doors which i'd say influenced more 'hooligan' saloons throughout the 90s and 00's from other manufacturers too. Worthy mentions are anything with the brilliant M156 6.2 N/A V8, CLK GTR, W124 'Hammer' , 190e Cosworth, C63, SLS and CLK Black series, and so forth.
BMW M - ''Precision & 'dynamic driving'' where handling was just as important as power, design and style. M cars seemed to influence reasonably powerful, but more importantly better handling than rivals in the forms of coupes and saloons. Icons include the E30 & E46 M3, E60 & E35 M5, E24 635CSI, 1M, M1 etc.
Audi RS - ''Balance of Power, Handling and Practicality'' - we concluded as Audi RS's being a bit bland compared to the others with only the real exception being the C7 RS6. No doubt the RS2 influenced the super estates we have now, but we couldn't think much of the heritage of Audi RS. Four wheel drive and bland steering dynamics may have taken away from excitement or driver involvement. Worthy mentions include the Audi Quattro, RS2, B6/B7 RS4, V6/C7 RS6,
Because of the above, over the years we saw rivals spawn such as Jaguar's XJ-R, Lexus IS-F, and now even from Alfa with the Quadrifoglio which all took on Germans Elite 3.
Whats your opinion?
I'll vote Ford RS for the bloke in the street
Or BMW if have to pick one of above
DoubleD said:
Whats serious about a V8?
Isn't the smallest capacity V8 in large scale production a 3.5ltr V8 (355 Fezza). Everything else is beyond that and likewise with big displacement comes big torque and big power. Who would compare a 1.6t Focus to a 6.2 V8 AMG or a 5.4 V8 N/A or supercharged whatever you fancy. Or of course the 7.4ltr V12 N/a or bi Turbo. Talk about taking a chocolate knife to a gun fight.
I've driven all three for long distances (only owned 1).
Merc racing heritage is mighty. Le Mans pre that crash in the 1950's. Then they came back with the C7 group C Le Mans monster which even today is fesrsomely quick & sound like 12 virgins all orgasmijg at your performance.
A certain Merc 190 cosworth revving to 14,000 rpm winning all 16 races in a highly competitive DTM series ( people always talk E30M3's but Merc ruined them/were BMW in the runnings at that time..)
Audi RS they raced the North American Le Mans series using the 4.2 V8 Bi Turbo from the C5 RS6 the only non UrQuattro engine to be used for racing.
Merc racing heritage is mighty. Le Mans pre that crash in the 1950's. Then they came back with the C7 group C Le Mans monster which even today is fesrsomely quick & sound like 12 virgins all orgasmijg at your performance.
A certain Merc 190 cosworth revving to 14,000 rpm winning all 16 races in a highly competitive DTM series ( people always talk E30M3's but Merc ruined them/were BMW in the runnings at that time..)
Audi RS they raced the North American Le Mans series using the 4.2 V8 Bi Turbo from the C5 RS6 the only non UrQuattro engine to be used for racing.
I've never been a fan of fast Audis. RS4s and R8s etc just seem like efficient GPs. They're fantastic, but don't leave me wanting to go back. Sorry to fast Audi owners - each to their own.
I am a Mercedes fanboy but I think the BMW M cars just edge it for me. AMGs are compromised - whereas M cars even in today's climate are still fantastic drivers' cars.
I rate my E46 M3 SMG better than my W204 C63 AMG. I still have a (humdrum) Merc, I don't have a BMW. I am strongly considering replacing my Merc with either another M3 or an XJR (because wildcard)
I am a Mercedes fanboy but I think the BMW M cars just edge it for me. AMGs are compromised - whereas M cars even in today's climate are still fantastic drivers' cars.
I rate my E46 M3 SMG better than my W204 C63 AMG. I still have a (humdrum) Merc, I don't have a BMW. I am strongly considering replacing my Merc with either another M3 or an XJR (because wildcard)
Probably BMW M for me, even though I no longer own one. The variety of great cars they have produced beats the other two combined IMO - homologation 4-cyl tintops, raw 6-cyl coupes, sledgehammer V8 & V10 execs and a monster V12 GT are all in its back catalogue
Love many a car from all three manufacturers though, and glad they all exist
Love many a car from all three manufacturers though, and glad they all exist
It's subjective really. All great cars in their own way and character. I like MB C43/C63 AMG & BMW M3/4, and test drove them all. In the end I settled for an Audi B9 S5 Sportback which for me was not overly loud, in your face styling wise, was fast enough (for me) and was definitely the most comfortable with the best interior. Had a B9 RS5 sportback been launched at the time, I would have been very tempted. At now 58 years old and still loving performance cars (this will never die until I do), the boy racer in me has toned down an awful lot these days and now preferring discrete performance with comfort and practicality.
Edited by IJB1959 on Saturday 19th August 12:29
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff