Dodgy headline - car tax evasion triples

[saaby93]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42009111

Headline is car tax evasion triples since tax disc scrapped
Isnt it triple the number of people forget to retax and get fined
Which way brings in more revenue

[robinessex]

Another 'improvement' which turns out not to be.

[Seesure]

And dodgy BBC maths...

£107,000,000 loss of revenue from 755,000 vehicles...is about £142 per vehicle....

So in reality someone has looked at the tax rates couldn't be arsed and guessed a figure...

Do the BBC own the Daily Wail these days... lazy journalism at best...

[saaby93]

Further down

beeb said:

The DVLA also said that it was running a campaign warning the rising number of people still driving cars that had been declared as off the road to tax their vehicles

How many of those actually declared their cars off road
vs
How many didn't know the DVLA automatically declares them off road at change of owner ( and tries to get two lots of tax for the month)

When did the Beeb become the public mouthpiece of the DVLA

[Pica-Pica]

I think this is a move to eliminate taxation from cars, and tax just on purchase and use (fuel, tolls). There is no administrative efficiency in an annual taxation such as this.

[Krikkit]

Seesure said:

And dodgy BBC maths...

£107,000,000 loss of revenue from 755,000 vehicles...is about £142 per vehicle....

So in reality someone has looked at the tax rates couldn't be arsed and guessed a figure...

Do the BBC own the Daily Wail these days... lazy journalism at best...

Actually they've just taken it out of the press release which the DVLA issued, which will have been passed through their statistics office... See here for more info: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

[akirk]

So let's put out a press release with in large letters £107 million...
then put at the bottom:

DVLA said:

What we cannot conclude:is that the real loss to the exchequer is £107 million as this is an upper estimate

what on earth are Government departments doing putting out press releases with nonsense on them - the only purpose is to be alarmist...

in fact we can presumably guarantee that it will not be £107 million, as it only takes one payment for the real total to be lesser than the upper estimate!
and surely their clever computer should easily be able to do the sums of £107 million - fines for unpaid tax = 3guineas ha'penny and therefore put out an accurate figure - sure it won't be as headline grabbing but it might be honest!

[99dndd]

I hear private jet tax evasion is up as well.

[tejr]

Erm if theres anything fraudulant about car tax, surely its the its collected once you sell on a car.. doubled revenue for the month the car was sold in? For no justifiable reason.

[saaby93]

akirk said:

what on earth are Government departments doing putting out press releases with nonsense on them - the only purpose is to be alarmist...

Alarmist that their idea has turned out to be a money raiser?

Do you think theyve tried to get this out first before the newspapers work out what its really about?

[towser44]

Just read this and was looking for a thread. Had a little chuckle at the 2 areas with the highest % of untaxed cars (albeit they are not exactly high figures). Shame they can't drill down a little further into the exact locality of the 2nd area, I have a good idea where it could be!

[Moonhawk]

Pica-Pica said:

I think this is a move to eliminate taxation from cars, and tax just on purchase and use (fuel, tolls). There is no administrative efficiency in an annual taxation such as this.

To be honest - it would make a lot of sense to roll VED into fuel. High consumption, high mileage cars would pay more - which if the intent of VED (i.e. as a punitive measure to counter CO2 emissions) is to be believed - would serve this purpose fine.

When the tax disc was still in use - it served other purposes. It was a visual indicator to any passing plod that the car was not only taxed - but most likely insured and MOT'd as well (at least it was on the day the car was taxed).

Now that the tax disc is no longer required - what purpose does 'car tax' serve other than as a.n.other revenue raiser.

[mac96]

Moonhawk said:

Pica-Pica said:

I think this is a move to eliminate taxation from cars, and tax just on purchase and use (fuel, tolls). There is no administrative efficiency in an annual taxation such as this.

To be honest - it would make a lot of sense to roll VED into fuel. High consumption, high mileage cars would pay more - which if the intent of VED (i.e. as a punitive measure to counter CO2 emissions) is to be believed - would serve this purpose fine.

When the tax disc was still in use - it served other purposes. It was a visual indicator to any passing plod that the car was not only taxed - but most likely insured and MOT'd as well (at least it was on the day the car was taxed).

Now that the tax disc is no longer required - what purpose does 'car tax' serve other than as a.n.other revenue raiser.

Lack of the tax disc acting as a reminder also leads to forgetting to renew the tax- I wonder how much of the so called evasion is actually error? Sooner it goes into fuel duty/tolls the better.

[cuprabob]

mac96 said:

Lack of the tax disc acting as a reminder also leads to forgetting to renew the tax- I wonder how much of the so called evasion is actually error? Sooner it goes into fuel duty/tolls the better.

DVLA still send out a reminder when your tax is about to expire.

[Murph7355]

Pica-Pica said:

I think this is a move to eliminate taxation from cars, and tax just on purchase and use (fuel, tolls). There is no administrative efficiency in an annual taxation such as this.

This is THE most simple and effective tax simplification that governments could do. But they never do. Why?

Because they don't have to. They can get two lots of ever increasing revenue from the same source. Why cut one out?

[Otispunkmeyer]

Moonhawk said:

Pica-Pica said:

I think this is a move to eliminate taxation from cars, and tax just on purchase and use (fuel, tolls). There is no administrative efficiency in an annual taxation such as this.

To be honest - it would make a lot of sense to roll VED into fuel. High consumption, high mileage cars would pay more - which if the intent of VED (i.e. as a punitive measure to counter CO2 emissions) is to be believed - would serve this purpose fine.

When the tax disc was still in use - it served other purposes. It was a visual indicator to any passing plod that the car was not only taxed - but most likely insured and MOT'd as well (at least it was on the day the car was taxed).

Now that the tax disc is no longer required - what purpose does 'car tax' serve other than as a.n.other revenue raiser.

I just mentioned on the other thread that without the tax disc, actually checking a car is taxed (and thus likely insured and MOT'd) requires one of these to happen:

1) ANPR camera picks you up and cross checks a database
2) Plod decides to run your plates
3) You get caught speeding or being in a bus lane or whatever.

3 is easy to avoid. 1 is also easy to avoid: 90% of my driving, I don't go anywhere near ANPR kit. If I tried that could be 100% no problem. 2 is also easy to avoid. I can't remember the last time plod was in the vicinity of my car, close enough to read the reg number. Even then, I suspect they would have to have some kind of reason to trigger the check... poor driving, speeding, missing lights, bald tyres or whatever. If they have no reason to suspect, then I doubt they're going to be checking.

So in short, at least to me, it seems like its quite easy to fly under the radar. Certainly I don't, I pay my tax like a good like worker slave. But there was one instance where I just forgot and I was driving around for nearly a month without tax. I only found out because it dawned on me one day and I checked via the DVLA website. I bet I could have gone a lot longer than that. I didn't receive a reminder in the post.

All pretty easy stuff to foresee IMO so I am not surprised the number of people evading is up. Some of that will be mistakes of course, those who are unorganised and used to rely on looking at the disc.

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 17th November 13:52

[Wingo]

Tax/VED on fuel.........simples.

Saves all the admin, no need for the DVLA to get involved at all, you pay at the pump.

Burn loads of fuel, pay more.

Whats not to like?

Wingo.

[Otispunkmeyer]

ash73 said:

I thought the fines are now automatic? How are more people dodging them?

Never realised they were automatic now. Perhaps they just file it straight into B, for Bin or ignore it.

[Evanivitch]

It's not surprising, the number of people that aren't aware of tax when buying a car or expect a text/email alert (which they can if signed up to). How many 17-30s have failed to keep their keepers address upto date?

Otispunkmeyer said:

: 90% of my driving, I don't go anywhere near ANPR kit.

Do you live out in the sticks? ANPR is everywhere these days on the roadside, it's insane.

My route to work also quite often has a DVLA revenue check vehicle. They've gone to a fully integrated solution these days with a van and rid of the Prius and tripod.

Also, DVLA vans also do checks in supermarket car parks with the land owners permission.

[Sheepshanks]

I would bet many of those who are evading deliberately, especially in cars that are SORN'd, aren't insured either.