Mutual Turning Right - Offside to Offside?

[anonymous-user]

I recall that many years ago it was considered 'best practice' for vehicles turning right across each other to pass offside to offside:

Drivers in London seemed to conform to this method far more than us country bumpkins, leading to a few 'misunderstandings' when visiting the capital.

Is this still the case? I haven't had the misfortune of driving through London in over 20 years, and I don't think I've seen this manoeuvre performed anywhere locally. It's invariably this:

[kambites]

I think it depends on the exact layout, size, and road markings of the junction; common sense needs to be applied. Nearside to nearside is generally more efficient but also considerably more dangerous because your sight of any oncoming traffic which might be filtering down the nearside of the other car is limited.

On a normal single carriageway crossroads (ie one with no right-turn lanes or stagger, like the one you've drawn) people around here almost invariably pass offside to offside.

Edited by kambites on Friday 20th April 13:33

[Pica-Pica]

280E said:

I recall that many years ago it was considered 'best practice' for vehicles turning right across each other to pass offside to offside:

Drivers in London seemed to conform to this method far more than us country bumpkins, leading to a few 'misunderstandings' when visiting the capital.

Is this still the case? I haven't had the misfortune of driving through London in over 20 years, and I don't think I've seen this manoeuvre performed anywhere locally. It's invariably this:

I suggest OP and others look at Highway Code. I won’t say what it says, it will give people a chance to absorb the rest of it. It is downloadable.

[Mr2Mike]

280E said:

I recall that many years ago it was considered 'best practice' for vehicles turning right across each other to pass offside to offside:

Drivers in London seemed to conform to this method far more than us country bumpkins, leading to a few 'misunderstandings' when visiting the capital.

In that diagram it looks like an almost impossible manoeuvre unless they both have rear steer cars

[w8pmc]

It depends on the turning mechanism at the junction, as those with let's say waiting areas, which tend to be very busy, your top picture applies as a row of cars would be turning each way.

Under more normal circumstances, the bottom picture is usually adopted, however the clear problem is that your view point of anything coming down their nearside is somewhat obstructed, so i'm betting the top picture is how the Highway code mandates this action, but in reality it's either so kind of dangerous really.

[paintman]

Pica-Pica said:

I suggest OP and others look at Highway Code. I won’t say what it says, it will give people a chance to absorb the rest of it. It is downloadable.

[rcspeirs]

Varies by location. I grew up in England with the "first method" and remember being astonished when I first drove in Edinburgh (more than 30 years ago) when everyone adopted the "second method".

[Pistonheader101]

2nd method

[JustinF]

1 st method means a clear view of any further traffic behind that would otherwise be blocked from view, however it only works if you don't have numpties behind you or the other car crossing who will invariably fail to leave a gap and then get all upset that no one can go where they want to.

[speedking31]

kambites said:

I think it depends on the exact layout, size, and road markings of the junction; common sense needs to be applied. Offside to offside is generally more efficient but also considerably more dangerous because your sight of any oncoming traffic which might be filtering down the nearside of the other car is limited.

Don't you mean nearside-nearside?

Highway Code Rule 181. But they confuse it by showing an offset in the junction in the diagram for nearside-nearside turning.

[Valgar]

Offside to offside is safest, but I mostly find I have to do nearside to nearside, you can't do off to off if there are cars behind

[kambites]

speedking31 said:

kambites said:

I think it depends on the exact layout, size, and road markings of the junction; common sense needs to be applied. Offside to offside is generally more efficient but also considerably more dangerous because your sight of any oncoming traffic which might be filtering down the nearside of the other car is limited.

Don't you mean nearside-nearside?

Highway Code Rule 181. But they confuse it by showing an offset in the junction in the diagram for nearside-nearside turning.

You're right, I mean near-side to near-side. Corrected now.

[Gandahar]

280E said:

I recall that many years ago it was considered 'best practice' for vehicles turning right across each other to pass offside to offside:

Drivers in London seemed to conform to this method far more than us country bumpkins, leading to a few 'misunderstandings' when visiting the capital.

Is this still the case? I haven't had the misfortune of driving through London in over 20 years, and I don't think I've seen this manoeuvre performed anywhere locally. It's invariably this:

Are you the sort of person who eats the parsons nose of the chicken and thinks it is the best bit?

[jamei303]

How about neither

Best of both worlds - turn in front but position centrally to see oncoming:

[Gandahar]

"Drivers in London seemed to conform to this method far more than us country bumpkins, leading to a few 'misunderstandings' when visiting the capital.

Is this still the case? I haven't had the misfortune of driving through London in over 20 years, and I don't think I've seen this manoeuvre performed anywhere locally"

Only comment I can add is

?

Rather than spamming just go driving in London in the new TVR and be judged as

"Driving God" on PH

"Mad nutter" on PH

[parabolica]

As suggested in the 2nd post it varies according to the layout and size of the junction. I was in the exact situation last night at a really small junction (and my 6 series isn't exactly compact) so I was angling for the 'in-front of each other' method but the bint coming the opposite way seemed intend on trying to go around behind, despite the fact there was zero space to do this and we just ended up blocking each other. She was doing her nut, shouting and fist shaking - what exactly was she expecting me to do? Ended up having to drive off and do 3-sides of a square instead.

[Vanin]

If there was a prang and an injury, and it went to court, would you be on stronger ground if you were the offside to offside driver, it being deemed the safer though less efficient?

[lornemalvo]

offside to offside (I believe it used to be called a sliding turn) is safest, if the width etc of the road permits, because a n/s to n/s turn creates a nasty blindspot, but I live in Yorkshire and I don't even think that people are aware of this

[hornmeister]

280E said:

I recall that many years ago it was considered 'best practice' for vehicles turning right across each other to pass offside to offside:

Drivers in London seemed to conform to this method far more than us country bumpkins, leading to a few 'misunderstandings' when visiting the capital.

Is this still the case? I haven't had the misfortune of driving through London in over 20 years, and I don't think I've seen this manoeuvre performed anywhere locally. It's invariably this:

In my local area (greater london) the roads are more often marked up but there's a mix of how they are marked depending on the layout & size of the junction. Here's an example of each on the same damn road just to make our life difficult.

Option 1 is the usual and the default method I would use if there were no markings to direct otherwise.

Generally where the junction is controlled by lights it's option 2,
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5772783,-0.3982475...
as it allows a constant stream of more than one or two cars. As mentioned previously in case one it only takes one muppet to follow up tight behind the first vehicle or an HGV or bus to block the whole junction. Roads around me are very busy, people get frustrated waiting and this happens a lot.

We do have a junction that is Option1 but it includes keep clear boxes to ensure only 2 cars can enter the junction at the same time.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5738308,-0.4131752...

Option 2 does give a serious visibility issues especially if the junction is multiple lanes, which is probably why it's not used as a default for non light controlled sections.