Future of Manual Transmissions Cars
Discussion
We are way past the days when manual transmissions were the only transmissions available. I come across too many automatics and its no secrets they are taking over, not just them but alternative fuel vehicles as well, like electric cars all coming with a single gear and voiding the need for any kind of transmission switch. At first I preached that men were made to drive manual transmissions, and the ladies have it easy with the automatics, until the Subaru WRX automatic changed my mind completely, no lag, same energy, great boost, same feeling of being in control because you can feel the gears shifting and adapting to what you want. Awesome!
However, just because manual transmissions are disappearing, there are few cars that will keep them as a part of their development, either standard or as an option for those looking for the feel of changing gears. That leaves two types of drivers, those who don’t want to fiddle with the transmission while on the road, and the dying breed that prefer manual transmission, so which one are you?
However, just because manual transmissions are disappearing, there are few cars that will keep them as a part of their development, either standard or as an option for those looking for the feel of changing gears. That leaves two types of drivers, those who don’t want to fiddle with the transmission while on the road, and the dying breed that prefer manual transmission, so which one are you?
I was talking about the ratios of manuals to autos with my wife over the weekend (oh the evenings just fly by in our house). She thought the vast majority of cars in the UK are still manuals whereas I though the tide had turned.
But I can’t find any stats that look reliable or current, although the sites I have found suggest I am wrong.
Anyone know?
BTW after years of Caterham and TVR ownership alongside daily-driver auto happiness, I now only drive an auto and do not feel the need to go back.
But I can’t find any stats that look reliable or current, although the sites I have found suggest I am wrong.
Anyone know?
BTW after years of Caterham and TVR ownership alongside daily-driver auto happiness, I now only drive an auto and do not feel the need to go back.
Watchman said:
I was talking about the ratios of manuals to autos with my wife over the weekend (oh the evenings just fly by in our house). She thought the vast majority of cars in the UK are still manuals whereas I though the tide had turned.
But I can’t find any stats that look reliable or current, although the sites I have found suggest I am wrong.
Anyone know?
BTW after years of Caterham and TVR ownership alongside daily-driver auto happiness, I now only drive an auto and do not feel the need to go back.
There was a chap on here that claimed this could be the first ever year that the UK has ever bought more automatic cars than manual ones. Where he was getting that from though, i don't know. But I can’t find any stats that look reliable or current, although the sites I have found suggest I am wrong.
Anyone know?
BTW after years of Caterham and TVR ownership alongside daily-driver auto happiness, I now only drive an auto and do not feel the need to go back.
This is my first ever auto too and i'd struggle to go back now myself. The thing is though, there are still cars that i'd like to own that are manual only, so i can't say for certain that i won't ever go back.
Manuals do have a future, but it will be a limited one.
In terms of internal combustion powertrains, a manual transmission provides the greatest efficiency in terms of internal losses (power in - power out). Their efficiency is better than of dual clutch units, and better than epicyclic boxes with a torque convertor. You might argue that that's irrelevant, but when you're trying to eek out every possible percent of efficiency, it matters. They're also lighter and cheaper, and more reliable. Not to mention so much more fun.
But they require a bit of skill, and as people become lazier and more accustomed to technology, this is considered not user friendly. A lot of people (even experienced drivers) struggle with smooth change ups and change downs, which automatic rev matching can alleviate to an extent. I expect that more and more manual boxes in the next few years will start incorporating that technology.
Long term, I expect only budget cars and driver-focused cars to have it, but not because it's run its course concept-wise, but because people demand greater convenience. The same way manual windows all but disappeared, even though there was nothing wrong with the concept of a crank handle...
In terms of internal combustion powertrains, a manual transmission provides the greatest efficiency in terms of internal losses (power in - power out). Their efficiency is better than of dual clutch units, and better than epicyclic boxes with a torque convertor. You might argue that that's irrelevant, but when you're trying to eek out every possible percent of efficiency, it matters. They're also lighter and cheaper, and more reliable. Not to mention so much more fun.
But they require a bit of skill, and as people become lazier and more accustomed to technology, this is considered not user friendly. A lot of people (even experienced drivers) struggle with smooth change ups and change downs, which automatic rev matching can alleviate to an extent. I expect that more and more manual boxes in the next few years will start incorporating that technology.
Long term, I expect only budget cars and driver-focused cars to have it, but not because it's run its course concept-wise, but because people demand greater convenience. The same way manual windows all but disappeared, even though there was nothing wrong with the concept of a crank handle...
Autos are a poor man's hybrid/EV. All of them.
Sorry, I forgot: sometimes they pipe in vrooom sounds too. But fundamentally, they're mimicing a Tesla's power delivery, because that's what's optimal.
Manuals aren't faster, but nor are horses. They're fun because they demand at least some skill.
Hopefully the low-volume market will be able to find a supply.
Sorry, I forgot: sometimes they pipe in vrooom sounds too. But fundamentally, they're mimicing a Tesla's power delivery, because that's what's optimal.
Manuals aren't faster, but nor are horses. They're fun because they demand at least some skill.
Hopefully the low-volume market will be able to find a supply.
Watchman said:
I was talking about the ratios of manuals to autos with my wife over the weekend (oh the evenings just fly by in our house). She thought the vast majority of cars in the UK are still manuals whereas I though the tide had turned.
But I can’t find any stats that look reliable or current, although the sites I have found suggest I am wrong.
Anyone know?
BTW after years of Caterham and TVR ownership alongside daily-driver auto happiness, I now only drive an auto and do not feel the need to go back.
Auto trader can be used to find an approximate number. Choose a date range (and any other filters you want) then have a look at the transmission filter and it will give you the numbers for each.But I can’t find any stats that look reliable or current, although the sites I have found suggest I am wrong.
Anyone know?
BTW after years of Caterham and TVR ownership alongside daily-driver auto happiness, I now only drive an auto and do not feel the need to go back.
Salamura said:
a manual transmission provides the greatest efficiency in terms of internal losses (power in - power out). Their efficiency is better than of dual clutch units, and better than epicyclic boxes with a torque convertor. You might argue that that's irrelevant, but when you're trying to eek out every possible percent of efficiency, it matters.
That's not correct - because a human driver in a 7 speed manual changes gear in the "wrong" places where an equivalent 7 speed auto will change gear in the "right" places. The fact that a manual can be more efficient in a steady state than, say, an equivalent torque converter car (assuming no TQ lock-up) has no bearing on the realities of car use.The more gears you put in a transmission the greater the advantage of the auto - it's essentially moving towards a CVT. And the more gears you put in a transmission the less likely it is that a driver will want to stir them manually. Even with paddles it's a right PITA trying to drive an 8 or 10 speed auto in manual mode.
paranoid airbag said:
Autos are a poor man's hybrid/EV. All of them.
Sorry, I forgot: sometimes they pipe in vrooom sounds too. But fundamentally, they're mimicing a Tesla's power delivery, because that's what's optimal.
Manuals aren't faster, but nor are horses. They're fun because they demand at least some skill.
Hopefully the low-volume market will be able to find a supply.
A very odd and confusing post indeed.Sorry, I forgot: sometimes they pipe in vrooom sounds too. But fundamentally, they're mimicing a Tesla's power delivery, because that's what's optimal.
Manuals aren't faster, but nor are horses. They're fun because they demand at least some skill.
Hopefully the low-volume market will be able to find a supply.
On my fourth auto car. Manuals only appeal for very niche stuff (typically all well under 1000kg, RWD and without roofs). For anything, practical/everyday I can't see myself bothering with a manual ever again.
Way way back drivers would be required to fiddle with levers to control ignition and fuelling as you were driving along. Was that more "involving" or just a pain that everyone was glad went away when the car could do it by itself?
Way way back drivers would be required to fiddle with levers to control ignition and fuelling as you were driving along. Was that more "involving" or just a pain that everyone was glad went away when the car could do it by itself?
Nanook said:
I don't quite follow. A 60's automatic Jag XJ is a poor man's electric vehicle, which back then, 50 years ago to the day, was trying to mimic a Tesla's power delivery.
Yup. A bad one. There's a fairly simple way to define "optimal torque delivery" which a high-end EV gets very close to. It doesn't include pausing to change gear, odd torque curves, noise, or lag - electronic or mechanical.Just cut the crap and admit the only reason to buy an auto is "I can't afford a proper EV or hybrid". Everything autos do EVs do better, except some totally fatous, pointless and stupid link to sportiness via piped-in vrrom noises and fake exhaust tips.
Manuals can at least be an element of a flawed car, whose flaws are the source of entertainment.
Having driven some manual box and PDK Caymans recently, I really could not get on with the PDK versions, either in automatic or flappy paddle mode. Every time I drove the auto/pdk version it was like there was something big and obstructive between me and the car, which sucked the joy out of driving it. For me it would be a (good) manual box every time. P.s Crap manuals are also available.
paranoid airbag said:
Nanook said:
I don't quite follow. A 60's automatic Jag XJ is a poor man's electric vehicle, which back then, 50 years ago to the day, was trying to mimic a Tesla's power delivery.
Yup. A bad one. There's a fairly simple way to define "optimal torque delivery" which a high-end EV gets very close to. It doesn't include pausing to change gear, odd torque curves, noise, or lag - electronic or mechanical.Just cut the crap and admit the only reason to buy an auto is "I can't afford a proper EV or hybrid". Everything autos do EVs do better, except some totally fatous, pointless and stupid link to sportiness via piped-in vrrom noises and fake exhaust tips.
Manuals can at least be an element of a flawed car, whose flaws are the source of entertainment.
dme123 said:
^^^ The man has a point, an XJ12 or XJS V12 with it's 3 speed auto drives a lot like an electric car. Weirdly seamless and unchanging levels of acceleration. It's very strange if you're used to anything peakier or with a sensible number of gears!
Unless you notch the auto box into second and rev it out to 6k rpm, where it emits a beautiful growl from the V12.I've never had any satisfaction/driving enjoyment from using a two pedal car and I've had a few over the years now. I do appreciate them in heavy stop/start though, but I've never loved or really enjoyed driving them for some reason.
As others have said an Auto does suit certain types of cars, but I'd never want an Auto in a car that I only used for pleasure though.
As others have said an Auto does suit certain types of cars, but I'd never want an Auto in a car that I only used for pleasure though.
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