"Too quick for the road"
Discussion
Someone said his on another thread, it attracted some derision, but do we think he has a point ?
Yes, its only as quick as you allow it to go but it has got a bit daft, last night I was in my M135i which is about 360/370 bhp with a tuning box and was driving back from Manchester, a 3 series coupe attaches itself to my bumper, I accelerate out of the 50 mph section and give it a bit of a boot, its still there, I move over to let him past and it flies past, I was doing 85 ish and he disappears into the distance.
Get to the airport, there are tunnels under the runway, its a 50 mph section, I was doing 55 (indicated) and a Audi S or RS 5 was right behind me, obviously wanting to play, it opens to two lanes and it and something else (not sure what) go flying past accelerating all the way making a hell of a racket, they must have accelerated to 100 mph plus in a tunnel that sometimes has standing traffic (unlikely at 8.30 pm but possible) and also sometimes has a copper in between the two tunnels with a speed gun, 100 odd in a 50 sounds like a world of pain.
Maybe I am getting old, I dont mind a play when its safe to do so but we seem to have got cars that have got faster and faster, a 350 bhp Golf barely generates any enthusiasm by the sounds of it, we have upped the ante with power outputs higher and higher and ended up with ridiculously fast cars that you darent really extend for more than a few seconds.
I remember driving old Golf GTI's with 112 bhp and thinking they felt pretty quick, they made a lot of noise, you got a bit of a shove but you ended up doing maybe 80 mph giving it full death, same stretch in mine, probably 130 mph, do I enjoy it more, that would be a no.
Maybe Petrolsmasher has a point ?
We are in a BHP arms race, is easy to end up with a 400, 500, 600 plus bhp car these days, and you can give them a little bit of a workout now and again but you can ever really let rip for any length of time.
Yes, its only as quick as you allow it to go but it has got a bit daft, last night I was in my M135i which is about 360/370 bhp with a tuning box and was driving back from Manchester, a 3 series coupe attaches itself to my bumper, I accelerate out of the 50 mph section and give it a bit of a boot, its still there, I move over to let him past and it flies past, I was doing 85 ish and he disappears into the distance.
Get to the airport, there are tunnels under the runway, its a 50 mph section, I was doing 55 (indicated) and a Audi S or RS 5 was right behind me, obviously wanting to play, it opens to two lanes and it and something else (not sure what) go flying past accelerating all the way making a hell of a racket, they must have accelerated to 100 mph plus in a tunnel that sometimes has standing traffic (unlikely at 8.30 pm but possible) and also sometimes has a copper in between the two tunnels with a speed gun, 100 odd in a 50 sounds like a world of pain.
Maybe I am getting old, I dont mind a play when its safe to do so but we seem to have got cars that have got faster and faster, a 350 bhp Golf barely generates any enthusiasm by the sounds of it, we have upped the ante with power outputs higher and higher and ended up with ridiculously fast cars that you darent really extend for more than a few seconds.
I remember driving old Golf GTI's with 112 bhp and thinking they felt pretty quick, they made a lot of noise, you got a bit of a shove but you ended up doing maybe 80 mph giving it full death, same stretch in mine, probably 130 mph, do I enjoy it more, that would be a no.
Maybe Petrolsmasher has a point ?
We are in a BHP arms race, is easy to end up with a 400, 500, 600 plus bhp car these days, and you can give them a little bit of a workout now and again but you can ever really let rip for any length of time.
J4CKO said:
Someone said his on another thread, it attracted some derision, but do we think he has a point ?
Yes, its only as quick as you allow it to go but it has got a bit daft, last night I was in my M135i which is about 360/370 bhp with a tuning box and was driving back from Manchester, a 3 series coupe attaches itself to my bumper, I accelerate out of the 50 mph section and give it a bit of a boot, its still there, I move over to let him past and it flies past, I was doing 85 ish and he disappears into the distance.
Get to the airport, there are tunnels under the runway, its a 50 mph section, I was doing 55 (indicated) and a Audi S or RS 5 was right behind me, obviously wanting to play, it opens to two lanes and it and something else (not sure what) go flying past accelerating all the way making a hell of a racket, they must have accelerated to 100 mph plus in a tunnel that sometimes has standing traffic (unlikely at 8.30 pm but possible) and also sometimes has a copper in between the two tunnels with a speed gun, 100 odd in a 50 sounds like a world of pain.
Maybe I am getting old, I dont mind a play when its safe to do so but we seem to have got cars that have got faster and faster, a 350 bhp Golf barely generates any enthusiasm by the sounds of it, we have upped the ante with power outputs higher and higher and ended up with ridiculously fast cars that you darent really extend for more than a few seconds.
I remember driving old Golf GTI's with 112 bhp and thinking they felt pretty quick, they made a lot of noise, you got a bit of a shove but you ended up doing maybe 80 mph giving it full death, same stretch in mine, probably 130 mph, do I enjoy it more, that would be a no.
Maybe Petrolsmasher has a point ?
We are in a BHP arms race, is easy to end up with a 400, 500, 600 plus bhp car these days, and you can give them a little bit of a workout now and again but you can ever really let rip for any length of time.
This is exactly why I love my up! GTI.Yes, its only as quick as you allow it to go but it has got a bit daft, last night I was in my M135i which is about 360/370 bhp with a tuning box and was driving back from Manchester, a 3 series coupe attaches itself to my bumper, I accelerate out of the 50 mph section and give it a bit of a boot, its still there, I move over to let him past and it flies past, I was doing 85 ish and he disappears into the distance.
Get to the airport, there are tunnels under the runway, its a 50 mph section, I was doing 55 (indicated) and a Audi S or RS 5 was right behind me, obviously wanting to play, it opens to two lanes and it and something else (not sure what) go flying past accelerating all the way making a hell of a racket, they must have accelerated to 100 mph plus in a tunnel that sometimes has standing traffic (unlikely at 8.30 pm but possible) and also sometimes has a copper in between the two tunnels with a speed gun, 100 odd in a 50 sounds like a world of pain.
Maybe I am getting old, I dont mind a play when its safe to do so but we seem to have got cars that have got faster and faster, a 350 bhp Golf barely generates any enthusiasm by the sounds of it, we have upped the ante with power outputs higher and higher and ended up with ridiculously fast cars that you darent really extend for more than a few seconds.
I remember driving old Golf GTI's with 112 bhp and thinking they felt pretty quick, they made a lot of noise, you got a bit of a shove but you ended up doing maybe 80 mph giving it full death, same stretch in mine, probably 130 mph, do I enjoy it more, that would be a no.
Maybe Petrolsmasher has a point ?
We are in a BHP arms race, is easy to end up with a 400, 500, 600 plus bhp car these days, and you can give them a little bit of a workout now and again but you can ever really let rip for any length of time.
Agreed. I see little point in 300+ bhp motors on the road. Fast to accelerate but keep your foot down for more than a few seconds and you're losing your licence. In fact the way you drive them on the road is more point and squirt in the midrange so had may as well drive a powerful diesel.
pfnsht said:
In fact the way you drive them on the road is more point and squirt in the midrange so had may as well drive a powerful diesel.
That's something I've realised. Better off with decent mid-range power for exiting a roundabout or corner than something that doesn't give much power until it's hitting 5000 rpm.We do this, year in, year out.
Motorbikes have been able to break all UK speed limits in their 1st gear for well over a decade but no one seems to have an issue with that?
as well as BHP increases, modern cars have all the other stuff to go with it - ABS, collision prevention radar, safety cells etc.
I would go out on a limb and say a crash in a 300bhp golf R @ 100mph would be 'less' dangerous than a 70mph crash in a 115bhp Mk2 Golf GTI ?
Motorbikes have been able to break all UK speed limits in their 1st gear for well over a decade but no one seems to have an issue with that?
as well as BHP increases, modern cars have all the other stuff to go with it - ABS, collision prevention radar, safety cells etc.
I would go out on a limb and say a crash in a 300bhp golf R @ 100mph would be 'less' dangerous than a 70mph crash in a 115bhp Mk2 Golf GTI ?
I've found that most of the people I've spoken to who think they want a really powerful car are those who haven't driven anything really powerful. Obviously some people have and do want more power but I have had supercar owners admit they think their cars are too fast for the road.
If you stick to legal (or legalish) speeds I do think a GT86 is more fun than a 911 Trubo S. Buy my God is a Turbo S on full chat exciting. And it looks a lot better than a GT86 too.
My Cayman R is 330 bhp and handles beautifully and never once have I wished it was faster. And on UK roads I think it's more fun than a 911 Turbo...
If you stick to legal (or legalish) speeds I do think a GT86 is more fun than a 911 Trubo S. Buy my God is a Turbo S on full chat exciting. And it looks a lot better than a GT86 too.
My Cayman R is 330 bhp and handles beautifully and never once have I wished it was faster. And on UK roads I think it's more fun than a 911 Turbo...
PixelpeepS3 said:
We do this, year in, year out.
Motorbikes have been able to break all UK speed limits in their 1st gear for well over a decade but no one seems to have an issue with that?
as well as BHP increases, modern cars have all the other stuff to go with it - ABS, collision prevention radar, safety cells etc.
I would go out on a limb and say a crash in a 300bhp golf R @ 100mph would be 'less' dangerous than a 70mph crash in a 115bhp Mk2 Golf GTI ?
Possibly, but not for anyone you hit. Pedestrian or enclosed in metal, the energy of a collison goes up as the square of the velocity, so from 70 to 100mph, the energy inflicted increases about twice.Motorbikes have been able to break all UK speed limits in their 1st gear for well over a decade but no one seems to have an issue with that?
as well as BHP increases, modern cars have all the other stuff to go with it - ABS, collision prevention radar, safety cells etc.
I would go out on a limb and say a crash in a 300bhp golf R @ 100mph would be 'less' dangerous than a 70mph crash in a 115bhp Mk2 Golf GTI ?
Didn't feel like that in south Wales last weekend. Was almost impossible to take a bad road (living in the south east it's easy to say!) miles and miles of beautiful NSL tarmac. The car eat it all up with 385 bhp and with the amount of 40 mph road trains around I was glad of the power to overtake quickly and safely so we could all go on our merry way.
That's why in the real world 335d x drive's or F - Pace 3.0dS is as quick as you need.
I have a TVR, you would need a power bike to keep up.
However if I had to rush to hospital at 2AM, on typical UK roads I would chose the above over a highly strung powerful sports car
I have a TVR, you would need a power bike to keep up.
However if I had to rush to hospital at 2AM, on typical UK roads I would chose the above over a highly strung powerful sports car
Edited by Big GT on Friday 26th April 15:24
I've got north of 350bhp in my 3 series and to be honest I've pondered similar since getting it. The chance of using full throttle for more than a few seconds doesn't come up very often on the road and with an auto it's even easier to get up to silly speeds very quickly and in a whole world of pain if caught, I can imagine the 4wd models available are even worse in that respect.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the car, you just need to have a huge amount of self control, the limiter button get well used too.
There's certainly a good argument for smaller cars, better handling but less outright speed, Up GTi, Panda 100HP, Abarth 500 etc where you can really give them a thrashing without getting into triple figures quickly. I reckon 150bhp, small light car with decent handling is a cracking recipe for a fun car on the road. But then the other issue, all the roads seem to be too bloody busy to have much fun on most of the time anyway.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the car, you just need to have a huge amount of self control, the limiter button get well used too.
There's certainly a good argument for smaller cars, better handling but less outright speed, Up GTi, Panda 100HP, Abarth 500 etc where you can really give them a thrashing without getting into triple figures quickly. I reckon 150bhp, small light car with decent handling is a cracking recipe for a fun car on the road. But then the other issue, all the roads seem to be too bloody busy to have much fun on most of the time anyway.
Its a tough question
With less power a golf r will just feel boring - marketing demands cars now have steamroller tyres and power is the only way to make them exciting. as much as we'd all like a return to an N/A M3 it would just be suicide for sales
There's definitely a law of diminishing returns - my 300bhp JCW had no trouble keeping up with my brothers 520bhp M2 competition around the Scottish west coast, the car couldn't pull away hard enough to make a difference below 100mph. Different matter on a dual carriageway however, and the power is certainly dramatic
With less power a golf r will just feel boring - marketing demands cars now have steamroller tyres and power is the only way to make them exciting. as much as we'd all like a return to an N/A M3 it would just be suicide for sales
There's definitely a law of diminishing returns - my 300bhp JCW had no trouble keeping up with my brothers 520bhp M2 competition around the Scottish west coast, the car couldn't pull away hard enough to make a difference below 100mph. Different matter on a dual carriageway however, and the power is certainly dramatic
PixelpeepS3 said:
We do this, year in, year out.
Motorbikes have been able to break all UK speed limits in their 1st gear for well over a decade but no one seems to have an issue with that?
as well as BHP increases, modern cars have all the other stuff to go with it - ABS, collision prevention radar, safety cells etc.
I would go out on a limb and say a crash in a 300bhp golf R @ 100mph would be 'less' dangerous than a 70mph crash in a 115bhp Mk2 Golf GTI ?
To be honest, I'm amazed at how little attention bikes get. The performance is phenomenal, and obviously, from the speeds I hear bikes hit (substantial revs after 2 or 3 gear changes - that is going to be motoring on...) the temptation to use it is great. The KSI stats for bikes must be >10x that for cars per mile driven. But I guess the chances are higher that they will only cause the injuries to themselves.Motorbikes have been able to break all UK speed limits in their 1st gear for well over a decade but no one seems to have an issue with that?
as well as BHP increases, modern cars have all the other stuff to go with it - ABS, collision prevention radar, safety cells etc.
I would go out on a limb and say a crash in a 300bhp golf R @ 100mph would be 'less' dangerous than a 70mph crash in a 115bhp Mk2 Golf GTI ?
Maybe cars have got a lot better at avoiding crashes and mitigating their effects, but I think that a lot of the time that just insulates the driver to a point that pushes the "excitement" speed to somewhere where the risk is equivalent. The sensation of speed and driving at 70mph in that Mk2 is probably greater than at 100mph in the Mk7. A few weeks ago, on a very nice road, I was shocked at how much fun I was having in a ~70bhp Citroen something or other. The whole lack of performance and having to really up my driving game to make good pace, was a breath of fresh air.
Sort of related to this, sort of related to the "hooning might be illegal" thread, I am often quite worried by how many people seem to be driving at the very limits of a very capable, fast car, on a public road. People complaining of RS3 understeer? On anything other than a deserted roundabout or something like an industrial estate, I just don't see how you can be driving at that level on a public A/B road. Maybe Lincolnshire or the Fens, but generally, I just don't see how you can be that sure of your surroundings.
Pizzaeatingking said:
I've got north of 350bhp in my 3 series and to be honest I've pondered similar since getting it. The chance of using full throttle for more than a few seconds doesn't come up very often on the road and with an auto it's even easier to get up to silly speeds very quickly and in a whole world of pain if caught, I can imagine the 4wd models available are even worse in that respect.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the car, you just need to have a huge amount of self control, the limiter button get well used too.
There's certainly a good argument for smaller cars, better handling but less outright speed, Up GTi, Panda 100HP, Abarth 500 etc where you can really give them a thrashing without getting into triple figures quickly. I reckon 150bhp, small light car with decent handling is a cracking recipe for a fun car on the road. But then the other issue, all the roads seem to be too bloody busy to have much fun on most of the time anyway.
I've had my A45 for 2 weeks which is tuned to 430BHP, and I'm just constantly on the brakes. It's devastatingly quick, and yet, there's plenty of cars quicker out there. I miss my ITB 172 loads, but I wouldn't live with it every day, that's the difference. That's not to say I don't enjoy the car, you just need to have a huge amount of self control, the limiter button get well used too.
There's certainly a good argument for smaller cars, better handling but less outright speed, Up GTi, Panda 100HP, Abarth 500 etc where you can really give them a thrashing without getting into triple figures quickly. I reckon 150bhp, small light car with decent handling is a cracking recipe for a fun car on the road. But then the other issue, all the roads seem to be too bloody busy to have much fun on most of the time anyway.
Having driven things like a C63s and M2 Comp on track recently I have to admit that I can't think where you could use that kind of power on the road.
I'm guessing it depends on what enjoyment you get from cars but I'm reminded of when I moved from a 300bhp Boxster S to a 150 bhp MX5 several years ago and got a lot more fun from driving the latter one at full tilt everywhere I went!
I'm guessing it depends on what enjoyment you get from cars but I'm reminded of when I moved from a 300bhp Boxster S to a 150 bhp MX5 several years ago and got a lot more fun from driving the latter one at full tilt everywhere I went!
Does depend where you spend your time. I used to drive my old Mk2 5 cylinder ST on A/B roads in the South Downs. A lot of fun around corners and didn't hit licence losing speeds too frequently. Roads were in better condition back then though.
By comparison in the last 2 years been doing tons of miles on the M4 in my newer mk3 ST Estate. Similar to you, some people want to have fun but speeds get silly very quickly. It's not worth it.
I'm sure some people will feel cars with more than 300bhp are too quick for the road. In a straight line on the motorway it's WAY too easy to take liberties with that kind of power. It's also a damn sight more likely you'll be around considerably more variables that add a lot more risk.
I think overall it's a lot harder these days to 'enjoy' driving - I do mean drive quickly especially with a competent enthusiast near by. I guess it will end up pushing more people to the tracks, me included, which is fine if you can afford it. Could have knock on effects to a whole generation that can't get into cars because it's not socially or physically acceptable to drive with any zeal, anywhere.
By comparison in the last 2 years been doing tons of miles on the M4 in my newer mk3 ST Estate. Similar to you, some people want to have fun but speeds get silly very quickly. It's not worth it.
I'm sure some people will feel cars with more than 300bhp are too quick for the road. In a straight line on the motorway it's WAY too easy to take liberties with that kind of power. It's also a damn sight more likely you'll be around considerably more variables that add a lot more risk.
I think overall it's a lot harder these days to 'enjoy' driving - I do mean drive quickly especially with a competent enthusiast near by. I guess it will end up pushing more people to the tracks, me included, which is fine if you can afford it. Could have knock on effects to a whole generation that can't get into cars because it's not socially or physically acceptable to drive with any zeal, anywhere.
We passed this point years ago; today it's just a numbers game as there's more than enough performance in many vehicles. A modern Supercar would frustrate the hell out of me.
It is worth pointing out that, power aside, the difference between an average and good engine is huge and of far more importance than performance stats. Throttle response, power delivery, and sound are hugely important.
It is worth pointing out that, power aside, the difference between an average and good engine is huge and of far more importance than performance stats. Throttle response, power delivery, and sound are hugely important.
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