Insurance question

[davhill]

I can't find a specific place to put this but non doubt the mods will move it if necessary.

I have an Astra cabrio (sub 60k miles, 1st reg 2006). I find the brakes lack bite so I
replaced the original setup with GSi front discs (drilled Brembo) and the GSi caliper brackets
as the calipers are the same.

Now, I've got a pair of 4-pot Brembo calipers and grooved discs from a Renault Sport Cup Megane.
These will take the disc diameter up from 280mm to 321mm and get rid of the nasty single cylinder
sliding calipers. I already added braided stainless hoses. The GSi brakes are improving as the
pads bed in but I'm going to fit the Brembo setup, which came with Ferodo racing pads.

I'm going to disclose the modification to my insurance company. I'm aware that even though the car
will be safer (we all know who uses Brembo kit), they'll increase my premium.

Anybody gone the same sort of route with a modification?

TIA

[The Rotrex Kid]

I have the same setup on my car actually (along with a lot of other mods) and it’s a great setup.

It all depends on your insurance company how much it’ll cost you.

[davhill]

The Rotrex Kid said:

I have the same setup on my car actually (along with a lot of other mods) and it’s a great setup.

It all depends on your insurance company how much it’ll cost you.

Many thanks, time will tell.

[BT Summers]

I understand that Insurers want to know about any change to the standard car which is to increase performance.

Two questions for the insurance experts, could the current insurers come off cover and could they ask for an engineers report to check that the work has been done properly (as well as increase the premium)

Damn minefield.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

BT Summers said:

I understand that Insurers want to know about any change to the standard car which is to increase performance.

Two questions for the insurance experts, could the current insurers come off cover and could they ask for an engineers report to check that the work has been done properly (as well as increase the premium)

Damn minefield.

It's not necessarily about increasing performance. A mod might increase risk in other ways (theft) whilst not increasing performance.

Yes, they could come off cover, if they are an insurer that doesn't cover modified vehicles.

There are two aspects to mods, the effect on the vehicle and how that changes the risk, and what it tells you about the likely the profile of the driver. Most drivers are perfectly happy with the brakes fitted to their car by the manufacture. Mrs Miggins aged 55 in Ipswich never said "the brakes on my Micra lack bite so I'm going to fit Bembros". An insurer is perfectly entitled to decide that the type of person who upgrades their brakes does so because they drive enthusiastically, and find the standard brakes aren't adequate. They may see that as an increased risk, or even a risk they choose not to insure.

It's perfectly possible that people who upgrade their brakes have a worse claims record than those who don't.

[BT Summers]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

BT Summers said:

I understand that Insurers want to know about any change to the standard car which is to increase performance.

Two questions for the insurance experts, could the current insurers come off cover and could they ask for an engineers report to check that the work has been done properly (as well as increase the premium)

Damn minefield.

It's not necessarily about increasing performance. A mod might increase risk in other ways (theft) whilst not increasing performance.

Yes, they could come off cover, if they are an insurer that doesn't cover modified vehicles.

There are two aspects to mods, the effect on the vehicle and how that changes the risk, and what it tells you about the likely the profile of the driver. Most drivers are perfectly happy with the brakes fitted to their car by the manufacture. Mrs Miggins aged 55 in Ipswich never said "the brakes on my Micra lack bite so I'm going to fit Bembros". An insurer is perfectly entitled to decide that the type of person who upgrades their brakes does so because they drive enthusiastically, and find the standard brakes aren't adequate. They may see that as an increased risk, or even a risk they choose not to insure.

It's perfectly possible that people who upgrade their brakes have a worse claims record than those who don't.

Thanks, my insurers say specifically that they want to know about any modifications that increases performance.

That may still be open to interpretation I suppose, wider/bigger alloys may be fitted by some for appearance and the Insured doesn't tell his insurer, in the evnt of a serious accident I think insurers may say that the Insured did modifications to the car which increased cornering performance. My concern is that they could cancel ab initio.

[DonBarracuda]

Move to an insurer that are happy with mods. I'm with Brentacre, they've told me in the past that only mods that significantly increase the HP will affect my premium.

Edited by DonBarracuda on Tuesday 2nd February 11:00

[TwigtheWonderkid]

BT Summers said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

BT Summers said:

I understand that Insurers want to know about any change to the standard car which is to increase performance.

Two questions for the insurance experts, could the current insurers come off cover and could they ask for an engineers report to check that the work has been done properly (as well as increase the premium)

Damn minefield.

It's not necessarily about increasing performance. A mod might increase risk in other ways (theft) whilst not increasing performance.

Yes, they could come off cover, if they are an insurer that doesn't cover modified vehicles.

There are two aspects to mods, the effect on the vehicle and how that changes the risk, and what it tells you about the likely the profile of the driver. Most drivers are perfectly happy with the brakes fitted to their car by the manufacture. Mrs Miggins aged 55 in Ipswich never said "the brakes on my Micra lack bite so I'm going to fit Bembros". An insurer is perfectly entitled to decide that the type of person who upgrades their brakes does so because they drive enthusiastically, and find the standard brakes aren't adequate. They may see that as an increased risk, or even a risk they choose not to insure.

It's perfectly possible that people who upgrade their brakes have a worse claims record than those who don't.

Thanks, my insurers say specifically that they want to know about any modifications that increases performance.

But what performance?? Upgrading brakes increases braking performance! So you're right to tell them. If they no longer want you, they can't cancel ab initio, just from now. Cancelling ab initio is rare and is for cases where they find out about something that hasn't been disclosed to them.

Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Tuesday 2nd February 10:25

[donkmeister]

davhill said:

I'm going to disclose the modification to my insurance company. [b]I'm aware that even though the car
will be safer (we all know who uses Brembo kit)[/b], they'll increase my premium.

In most use cases, it won't be safer because brakes are not the limiting factor in car stopping performance.

Standard brakes are good enough for a bit of "normal" driving, with an emergency stop from any speed to avoid hitting something. The brakes will hold up perfectly well to that, and the tyre-road grip is the limiting factor. 6-pot calipers and huge discs will do no better.

For hooning round twisty lanes, where you are frequently braking hard, heatsoak is an issue and hence bigger brakes stave off fade for longer. That's where bigger brakes make the car safer.

[BT Summers]

Won't reply to diplomat Twig, Once bitten twice shy.

The acid test will be what the OP discovers when he reports to his insurers.

Best of luck OP

[TwigtheWonderkid]

BT Summers said:

Won't reply to diplomat Twig, Once bitten twice shy.

The acid test will be what the OP discovers when he reports to his insurers.

Best of luck OP

It'll probably be one of 3 replies:

1. Thanks for telling us, no problem.
2. Thanks for telling us, that'll be an extra £x
3. We don't insure modified cars, so we're going to cancel the policy.

[davhill]

Thank you, gents. I tried to get through today (Covid, I expect)
and the insurer's website won't let me sign in, despite my giving
the car registration, my name, d.o.b., policy number and postcode.

Nothing like efficiency...is it?

[Mr Tidy]

davhill said:

Thank you, gents. I tried to get through today (Covid, I expect)
and the insurer's website won't let me sign in, despite my giving
the car registration, my name, d.o.b., policy number and postcode.

Nothing like efficiency...is it?

No, nothing like efficency - despite what Twig claims.

Still back in the real world online doesn't always work too well either.

There used to be a time when you could call an insurer and speak to someone who knew what they were doing and had some discretion - honestly, there really was! And I really miss it.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Mr Tidy said:

There used to be a time when you could call an insurer and speak to someone who knew what they were doing and had some discretion - honestly, there really was! And I really miss it.

You may miss it, but most people just want rock bottom premiums. To achieve that, you need rock bottom overheads, and that means replacing people with a box of microchips or farming the work out to a call centre in Burkina Faso's 4th largest city.

[Lester H]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Mr Tidy said:

There used to be a time when you could call an insurer and speak to someone who knew what they were doing and had some discretion - honestly, there really was! And I really miss it.

You may miss it, but most people just want rock bottom premiums. To achieve that, you need rock bottom overheads, and that means replacing people with a box of microchips or farming the work out to a call centre in Burkina Faso's 4th largest city.

We had complications when my daughter’s address was the family boat. Finally I went to an old fashioned broker .. in person! I, like many, had avoided them for years. They sorted the problem, and subsequently helped with a claim from a cyclist. I don’t think they overcharged me for the service provided. A few still exist, often attached to small bookkeeping places.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Lester H said:

I don’t think they overcharged me for the service provided.

I'm sure you're right. But they probably charged you something. They are unlikely to have been as cheap as a comparison site's online offering. And most people want the absolute cheapest deal they can get.

[Mr Happy]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

BT Summers said:

Won't reply to diplomat Twig, Once bitten twice shy.

The acid test will be what the OP discovers when he reports to his insurers.

Best of luck OP

It'll probably be one of 3 replies:

1. Thanks for telling us, no problem.
2. Thanks for telling us, that'll be an extra £x
3. We don't insure modified cars, so we're going to cancel the policy.

Surely you'd call them before doing the modification, say "I'm thinking about modifying my car by changing the brakes, could you tell me if doing so will impact my premium, and if so - by how much?"

That way, the chances of #3 happening would be negated. If they say "we wouldn't be willing to continue the policy on that basis" then you just don't do the modification, or cancel it yourself to move to a more modifications-friendly insurer.

[Searider]

Ask insurers before you carry out the modification.

I'm considering remapping my car. I called them (LV) and asked what the additional premium would be if it did this.£30 was the answer.

[BT Summers]

Lester H said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Mr Tidy said:

There used to be a time when you could call an insurer and speak to someone who knew what they were doing and had some discretion - honestly, there really was! And I really miss it.

You may miss it, but most people just want rock bottom premiums. To achieve that, you need rock bottom overheads, and that means replacing people with a box of microchips or farming the work out to a call centre in Burkina Faso's 4th largest city.

We had complications when my daughter’s address was the family boat. Finally I went to an old fashioned broker .. in person! I, like many, had avoided them for years. They sorted the problem, and subsequently helped with a claim from a cyclist. I don’t think they overcharged me for the service provided. A few still exist, often attached to small bookkeeping places.

That is good advice, I was about to suggest something similar. Most towns have a full service insurance broker where you can discuss a problem with someone and if they are any good they should know their markets and which insurer would be amenable to a set of bigger wheels or brakes.

[davhill]

Update time!!!

My car is insured with Esure - Sheilas' Wheels did the brokering and it's a touch over £20
a month for my 16-year-old Astra.

I tried contacting SW on the phone but there was no chance, even thought the lines were
advertised as open. So I thought I'd do it online. I found I couldn't register so today, I went to
the Esure site.

Task 1 was to have my address updated. I moved a year ago and was still getting mail
from SW on my redirect so I'd forgotten.

Cue, premium increase No.1. I moved from an address on a busy semi rural, metalled road
10 miles from Windermere. The new address is the last house on a cobbled rural private road
that's a dead end, about 7 miles from Stockport. There are more sheep than people here and the traffic is minimal. The cost
is £70 plus a £26 admin fee.

Re the brake upgrade, this would be an extra £35, plus another admin fee.

At least it's acceptable. Had they done both changes for the £70 plus one fee, I'd have bitten.
As it is, I've accepted the address change and will be looking elsewhere, possibly with The Dog.

Insurance companies eh? Can't live with 'em, can't use an RPG on 'em.