One car, three seized engines, no way out - HELP!
Discussion
I am in a bind and I would like to hear anyone’s advice.
Last August, in a moment of stupidity, I bought a 2015 Mercedes E350 CDI with a seized engine here in Northern Ireland for £6500. “Happy days”, I thought, “get a replacement engine from the dismantlers for less than a grand, get it fitted, job’s a good ‘un”.
Well the first stupid thing I did was to buy the car without pricing an engine. It turned out I couldn’t get one of these engines in Northern Ireland at all, and the cheapest one I could find in England was £3500.
Mistake number 2: Choose a garage to fit the engine on the basis of a Google search ‘Mercedes independent Northern Ireland’.
Aug 21st 2020: I purchase the engine from English dismantler via Breakerlink website.
Aug 25th 2020: Independent receives engine from dismantlers (the car had already been delivered to him).
October 1st 2020 (yes, over a month later; get used to delays like these): Independent rings me to tell me the newly-fitted engine ran for a couple of hours before it also seized.
October 26th 2020: The independent removes the new engine and it is returned to the dismantler in England for inspection.
Oct 29th 2020: the dismantler responds
yes looks like oil pump has failed and starved top of engine for some reason
very rare for this type of engine i have allocated a replacement to be removed and sent out should be a few days
i have never seen this with this type of engine before
November 10th 2020: Replacement engine number 2 arrives with independent. I instruct the independent to fit a new OEM oil pump (£350 + VAT), drain the fuel tank and replace the fuel filter.
Mid-February 2021: The car’s original engine is sent to the dismantlers.
March 5th 2021: Replacement engine number 2 has been fitted to car (nearly 4 months after it was delivered) and driven 6 miles.
March 11th: Independent rings to tell me that replacement engine number 2 has also seized.
What the hell do I do now?? So far I’m down 10 grand on a car that I haven’t travelled one inch in. The independent hasn’t told me what his bill is yet.
How am I supposed to figure out who’s to blame? The independent will blame the dismantler and vice versa.
Even when I DO figure it out, how am I supposed to get money out of them? The dismantlers have already been paid in full. They are also likely to say that their 3-month warranty expired while the independent let the engine sit on his floor between early November and early March, and therefore I can go and whistle.
I no longer want anything to do with the independent – he is impossible to get hold of on the phone and when I eventually DO get hold of him, it’s one excuse after another.
How do I get the car back off him? I don’t want to pay him if the failures are his fault.
I can’t tell if the failures are his fault until I get the car inspected by someone who’s capable of determining who’s to blame (bad engine or bad installation).
I can’t take the car away to be inspected until I pay the independent.
Round and round it goes...
Assuming I successfully manage to get the car away from the independent, where can I find someone who’s capable of judging where the fault lies? A Merc dealer would charge an arm and a leg I’m sure. And if they DO decide who's to blame, what if the guilty party doesn't accept the result?
If the fault turns out to be with the dismantler, what do I do? I enquired with a local solicitor but they said that because we’re in Northern Ireland and the dismantler is in England, they can’t help as it’s out of their jurisdiction.
Do I just cut my losses, pay the independent, sell the car with a seized engine and accept that I just lost £3.5k plus the independent’s bill and have nothing to show for it?
I am at my wits’ end here. Any advice would be very welcome. Apologies for the length of this post.
Last August, in a moment of stupidity, I bought a 2015 Mercedes E350 CDI with a seized engine here in Northern Ireland for £6500. “Happy days”, I thought, “get a replacement engine from the dismantlers for less than a grand, get it fitted, job’s a good ‘un”.
Well the first stupid thing I did was to buy the car without pricing an engine. It turned out I couldn’t get one of these engines in Northern Ireland at all, and the cheapest one I could find in England was £3500.
Mistake number 2: Choose a garage to fit the engine on the basis of a Google search ‘Mercedes independent Northern Ireland’.
Aug 21st 2020: I purchase the engine from English dismantler via Breakerlink website.
Aug 25th 2020: Independent receives engine from dismantlers (the car had already been delivered to him).
October 1st 2020 (yes, over a month later; get used to delays like these): Independent rings me to tell me the newly-fitted engine ran for a couple of hours before it also seized.
October 26th 2020: The independent removes the new engine and it is returned to the dismantler in England for inspection.
Oct 29th 2020: the dismantler responds
yes looks like oil pump has failed and starved top of engine for some reason
very rare for this type of engine i have allocated a replacement to be removed and sent out should be a few days
i have never seen this with this type of engine before
November 10th 2020: Replacement engine number 2 arrives with independent. I instruct the independent to fit a new OEM oil pump (£350 + VAT), drain the fuel tank and replace the fuel filter.
Mid-February 2021: The car’s original engine is sent to the dismantlers.
March 5th 2021: Replacement engine number 2 has been fitted to car (nearly 4 months after it was delivered) and driven 6 miles.
March 11th: Independent rings to tell me that replacement engine number 2 has also seized.
What the hell do I do now?? So far I’m down 10 grand on a car that I haven’t travelled one inch in. The independent hasn’t told me what his bill is yet.
How am I supposed to figure out who’s to blame? The independent will blame the dismantler and vice versa.
Even when I DO figure it out, how am I supposed to get money out of them? The dismantlers have already been paid in full. They are also likely to say that their 3-month warranty expired while the independent let the engine sit on his floor between early November and early March, and therefore I can go and whistle.
I no longer want anything to do with the independent – he is impossible to get hold of on the phone and when I eventually DO get hold of him, it’s one excuse after another.
How do I get the car back off him? I don’t want to pay him if the failures are his fault.
I can’t tell if the failures are his fault until I get the car inspected by someone who’s capable of determining who’s to blame (bad engine or bad installation).
I can’t take the car away to be inspected until I pay the independent.
Round and round it goes...
Assuming I successfully manage to get the car away from the independent, where can I find someone who’s capable of judging where the fault lies? A Merc dealer would charge an arm and a leg I’m sure. And if they DO decide who's to blame, what if the guilty party doesn't accept the result?
If the fault turns out to be with the dismantler, what do I do? I enquired with a local solicitor but they said that because we’re in Northern Ireland and the dismantler is in England, they can’t help as it’s out of their jurisdiction.
Do I just cut my losses, pay the independent, sell the car with a seized engine and accept that I just lost £3.5k plus the independent’s bill and have nothing to show for it?
I am at my wits’ end here. Any advice would be very welcome. Apologies for the length of this post.
Do you have anything in writing between you and the Indy? Or just a casual verbal agreement? Are they checking/testing the engines before installing them? Or just chucking it in and assuming it’ll work fine?
You’ll need to determine what has been causing the engine to seize and whether that fault lies with the Indy or the breaker. But it sounds like the Indy has already written you off, if he’s dodging your calls etc. unless you have something in writing I fear you may be s
t out of luck.
Good luck.
You’ll need to determine what has been causing the engine to seize and whether that fault lies with the Indy or the breaker. But it sounds like the Indy has already written you off, if he’s dodging your calls etc. unless you have something in writing I fear you may be s
t out of luck. Good luck.
That's a really stty situation to be in.
Also extremely unlucky. Almost too unlucky to be chance one might say.
Answer is one you already know, but aren't going to like.
Pay the indy, *maybe* voice concerns about wether he fitted it correctly (as I would definitely be questioning that) and see if he will do you a deal on labour as it could potentially be partly his fault. Get the car back. Auction the car.
Forget about it and never do it again.
tty situation to be in. Also extremely unlucky. Almost too unlucky to be chance one might say.
Answer is one you already know, but aren't going to like.
Pay the indy, *maybe* voice concerns about wether he fitted it correctly (as I would definitely be questioning that) and see if he will do you a deal on labour as it could potentially be partly his fault. Get the car back. Auction the car.
Forget about it and never do it again.
Often this sort of sorry saga occurs when there is something wrong with the car that causes the engine to seize. For example on a petrol turbo, a weak fuel pump. Engine comes on boost, fuel pressure is too low, leans out and detonation kills the engine. Engine pulled, new good engine dropped in and hooked up. Drive away, fuel pump still dodgy, same thing happens again, engine #2 wrecked. The car will kill as many good engines as you throw at it until the underlying cause is diagnosed and fixed.
I'm not saying that's the specific issue here, just that I'd consider the possibility, after three dead engines, that there's a fault in the car (anywhere in the set of parts that wasn't replaced with the new engine) that's causing the engine to die.
In terms of what to do, best case would be if you can convince the independent to contact the breakers and tell them they've sent another dud engine, that way any issue about getting it sorted would be between the garage and the engine supplier. Odds may be low but if you can get the independent to do so, that would be the best outcome; you don't know until you try, the breaker might accept responsibility and supply another engine.
parabolica said:
Do you have anything in writing between you and the Indy? Or just a casual verbal agreement? Are they checking/testing the engines before installing them? Or just chucking it in and assuming it’ll work fine?
Nothing in writing, other than some Whatsapp messages since it's about the only way I ever got a response from him.The dismantlers were supplying a bare engine so the independent had to strip all the gubbins off the original engine and fit it to the new one before installing. As for checking/testing, well I instructed him to remove the sump of replacement engine number 2 to check for sludge. He said he did so, but to be honest I would have difficulty believing him if he told me that water was wet.
Edited by flangemonger on Monday 15th March 16:55
flangemonger said:
The dismantlers were supplying a bare engine so the independent had to strip all the gubbins off the original engine and fit it to the new one before installing.
Said 'gubbins' are the only common factor between all three engine failures, so it seems quite probable to me that the root cause of the engine failures lie in one or more of those ancillary parts, or elsewhere in the car.It's also possible that the independent you're using is incompetent or the breaker is sending dud engines, but those are only common factors between the most recent two seized engines, they don't explain the original failure.
samoht said:
Said 'gubbins' are the only common factor between all three engine failures, so it seems quite probable to me that the root cause of the engine failures lie in one or more of those ancillary parts, or elsewhere in the car.
It's also possible that the independent you're using is incompetent or the breaker is sending dud engines, but those are only common factors between the most recent two seized engines, they don't explain the original failure.
That's food for thought, thank you. I'm trying to figure how an ancillary could cause an engine to seize. Injectors? EGR valve? Temp sensors? All of those things would have thrown an EML I would have thought. Alternator? Aircon compressor? Gearbox? I can't figure how any of those would seize an engine but then I'm no expert. You are right though, nothing else explains the original engine's seizure. When the dismantler said Replacement number 1's failure looked to be due to a failed oil pump I thought maybe that's what failed on the original engine too. But Replacement number 2 had a brand new oil pump.It's also possible that the independent you're using is incompetent or the breaker is sending dud engines, but those are only common factors between the most recent two seized engines, they don't explain the original failure.
What a horrible situation, you have my sympathy.
For what its worth, my advice would be to stop throwing any more good money at it, and get out now.
Without a trusted competent indy to support you, you are up sh** creek without a paddle.
"Do I just cut my losses, pay the independent, sell the car with a seized engine and accept that I just lost £3.5k plus the independent’s bill and have nothing to show for it?"
I would do this, and at least you limit your losses. The stress and anxiety are over, you live to fight another day, and you learn a tough lesson.
Good luck!
For what its worth, my advice would be to stop throwing any more good money at it, and get out now.
Without a trusted competent indy to support you, you are up sh** creek without a paddle.
"Do I just cut my losses, pay the independent, sell the car with a seized engine and accept that I just lost £3.5k plus the independent’s bill and have nothing to show for it?"
I would do this, and at least you limit your losses. The stress and anxiety are over, you live to fight another day, and you learn a tough lesson.
Good luck!
I occasionally install engines for people. My rules are that I will warrant that I fit the engine correctly, but if the engine goes bang, it's not my issue. You will need to pay me to pull the engine out and refit.
I've only had it once where an engine failed after I fitted it, and I'm pretty sure the 18 yr old customer was ragging it around the local car park, so there was no way I was going to fit that again without being paid.
I mention this OP, because this is pretty industry standard, and unless you can reasonably prove poor fitting (not a chance), then as others have said, the responsibility is on you to show where the defect is. And even if it is a defect outside the engine caused by an ancillary, I'm not sure this would be covered by the fitters 'I'll do a decent job' clause. This is going to be almost impossible to establish blame (even if there is some) I would suggest, especially given the breaker is in England.
Sell the car, pay the minimum you have to pay, and get out of the situation sharpish would be my advice.
I've only had it once where an engine failed after I fitted it, and I'm pretty sure the 18 yr old customer was ragging it around the local car park, so there was no way I was going to fit that again without being paid.
I mention this OP, because this is pretty industry standard, and unless you can reasonably prove poor fitting (not a chance), then as others have said, the responsibility is on you to show where the defect is. And even if it is a defect outside the engine caused by an ancillary, I'm not sure this would be covered by the fitters 'I'll do a decent job' clause. This is going to be almost impossible to establish blame (even if there is some) I would suggest, especially given the breaker is in England.
Sell the car, pay the minimum you have to pay, and get out of the situation sharpish would be my advice.
What was your impression of the indy when you met him? I presume you've seen the car in situ? I tend to be extremely cynical and would be expecting a low offer for the car and an engine if you decide you want out and offer it for sale on a Merc website! Possibly from a friend of the indy! But, as I said, I'm a cynical old tt!! I could also be completely wrong!! 
t!! I could also be completely wrong!! Ah well, let that be a lesson to everyone else. Don’t buy a knackered car unless you have ability to fix it yourself or have the contacts to do so. Buying one and then relying on an unknown garage to fix it at full retail rates isn’t going to be economically viable even if everything goes to plan.
Blocked oil cooler or pipes?
When garage fits each engine they just connect up all the pipes around it.
Oil pump pumps to cooler, builds up back pressure so regulator valve opens putting excess back into sump.
The fact that no oil is getting out of the cooler to lubricate the engine will account for the seizure and maybe damage to the oil pump drive.
I've seen many garages launch new auto boxes by not cleaning or changing coolers and pipes and seen new turbos fo the same way.
Also worth finding out how the oil pump is driven.
If it's off the front of the crankshaft without a keyway, it will possibly have to have a new crankshaft pulley bolt(s) to make sure that its clamped up and being driven.
When garage fits each engine they just connect up all the pipes around it.
Oil pump pumps to cooler, builds up back pressure so regulator valve opens putting excess back into sump.
The fact that no oil is getting out of the cooler to lubricate the engine will account for the seizure and maybe damage to the oil pump drive.
I've seen many garages launch new auto boxes by not cleaning or changing coolers and pipes and seen new turbos fo the same way.
Also worth finding out how the oil pump is driven.
If it's off the front of the crankshaft without a keyway, it will possibly have to have a new crankshaft pulley bolt(s) to make sure that its clamped up and being driven.
Short Grain said:
What was your impression of the indy when you met him? I presume you've seen the car in situ?
I'm starting to wish I'd not posted this, since it's making me feel stupider and stupider... I've never met the independent. Only spoken to him on the phone and whatsapp. I saw the car when I bought it, then arranged a transporter to bring it to the independent. I wasn't present when that happened.
Yes, as the saying goes 'It may be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others'.
flangemonger said:
Short Grain said:
What was your impression of the indy when you met him? I presume you've seen the car in situ?
I'm starting to wish I'd not posted this, since it's making me feel stupider and stupider... I've never met the independent. Only spoken to him on the phone and whatsapp. I saw the car when I bought it, then arranged a transporter to bring it to the independent. I wasn't present when that happened.
Yes, as the saying goes 'It may be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others'.
How do you even know for certain what engines he's fitted to it?! Or what state its all in?
Whilst this garage haven't helped you much (and might still be scamming you!), you must be shoulder a lot of responsibility here. You should've been down there, in person, on multiple occasions overseeing what YOUR money is being spent on.
Resolution step one.... Get down there TOMORROW and inspect YOUR car.
The Road Crew said:
You should've been down there, in person, on multiple occasions overseeing what YOUR money is being spent on.
I fail to see what that would have achieved, apart from making him bump up the bill for pi$$ing him off by turning up and telling him how to do his job. (Of course, this was back when I still assumed he knew how to do his job.)Given the pandemic and overall logistics I think that, while unfortunate, it's not totally unreasonable for OP to have found a garage and arranged them to fit him an engine without ever going there in person.
At the same time, while I don't think it's useful to 'oversee' a mechanic's actual work, I do think that visiting the garage and having a discussion face to face is generally helpful in ensuring (a) you have their full attention and (b) the best chance of understanding each other and finding a resolution.
So I would recommend visiting the garage to discuss next moves, because I think a face to face conversation often works best. But I'd not criticise OP for not having done so initially.
I'm afraid I don't have enough knowledge to guess what specifically could have caused the problems. There do appear to be a few known issues with the OM642 diesel relating to oil https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/om642-seizing-... which could be relevant.
flangemonger said:
The Road Crew said:
You should've been down there, in person, on multiple occasions overseeing what YOUR money is being spent on.
I fail to see what that would have achieved, apart from making him bump up the bill for pi$$ing him off by turning up and telling him how to do his job. (Of course, this was back when I still assumed he knew how to do his job.)Other than laughing at you, and costing you money, what on earth was he doing? We've no idea... Hence I'd have been straight down there to find out.
1 seized engine is unlucky. 2 on the trot is very rare. 3 is unheard of.
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