Biggest car brand image transformations of the last 40 years
Discussion
The last 40 years or so have seen some big changes in the car industry landscape. The German car industry seem to have dominated the UK for the last 20 years and have become far less niche and more mainstream with very extensive ranges. Conversely, many of the mainstream brands from 20+ years ago have really had to pare down their ranges and focus on more niche areas to survive. Having said that with new start-up EV companies from USA and China now coming on stream, even the big German legacy car manufacturers seem to be lacking a little in confidence.
So, which car manufacturers would you consider to be the biggest "winners" and "losers" of the last 40 years in terms of transforming their brand image?
For "winners", I would say:
Skoda - these were a joke in the 80s but under VW's tutelage have grown into arguably the best and best-value range of cars in the VAG empire and gained a veneer of middle-class respectability in the process.
Audi - we all love to hate on them but they have grown exponentially from a rather quirky, "oddball" choice in the 80s that couldn't hope to compete on a level playing field with BMW/Mercedes into the cars that "everyone else" wants, even if there isn't always anything particularly special about them.
Kia (and to a lesser extent Hyundai) - 15 years ago I was selling new Rios for 7k and they were cheap but utter s****. Now they are selling very competitive products like the Stinger, Sportage and Sorento with Japanese levels of build quality and an industry-leading warranty. I couldn't have predicted that.
Volvo - this one is a bit more arguable but in my opinion, Volvo have transformed from an uncool brand who sold cars designed with a pencil and ruler into one that makes some of the best-looking vehicles on the market and are a lot cooler than the competitors from the usual (German) suspects.
For "losers", I would say:
Vauxhall - a very respectable brand in the 80s/90s, who made some of the UK's most loved cars but have become a bit of a joke and completely sunk without trace and seem to lack any identity now whatsoever.
Rover - Rovers were perceived as quite "classy" in the 90s and a bit of a cut above your average family cars but we all know what happened next.
Fiat - Fiat made some great and very popular small cars in the 80s/90s and the 90s Fiat range seemed pretty competitive with even some desirable niche products like the barchetta and Coupe but now they're only just hanging on by the virtue of one car (500), which granted was an inspired move but where's the mainstream Fiesta competitor?
Subaru - I was a huge fan of the the Subaru brand in the 2000s, having been the owner of a "Blobeye" WRX and thinking of trading up to a Legacy Spec B or SG Forester XT but their current lineup is just an irrelevant void of nothingness. I understand that they are still quite popular elsewhere though.
So, which car manufacturers would you consider to be the biggest "winners" and "losers" of the last 40 years in terms of transforming their brand image?
For "winners", I would say:
Skoda - these were a joke in the 80s but under VW's tutelage have grown into arguably the best and best-value range of cars in the VAG empire and gained a veneer of middle-class respectability in the process.
Audi - we all love to hate on them but they have grown exponentially from a rather quirky, "oddball" choice in the 80s that couldn't hope to compete on a level playing field with BMW/Mercedes into the cars that "everyone else" wants, even if there isn't always anything particularly special about them.
Kia (and to a lesser extent Hyundai) - 15 years ago I was selling new Rios for 7k and they were cheap but utter s****. Now they are selling very competitive products like the Stinger, Sportage and Sorento with Japanese levels of build quality and an industry-leading warranty. I couldn't have predicted that.
Volvo - this one is a bit more arguable but in my opinion, Volvo have transformed from an uncool brand who sold cars designed with a pencil and ruler into one that makes some of the best-looking vehicles on the market and are a lot cooler than the competitors from the usual (German) suspects.
For "losers", I would say:
Vauxhall - a very respectable brand in the 80s/90s, who made some of the UK's most loved cars but have become a bit of a joke and completely sunk without trace and seem to lack any identity now whatsoever.
Rover - Rovers were perceived as quite "classy" in the 90s and a bit of a cut above your average family cars but we all know what happened next.
Fiat - Fiat made some great and very popular small cars in the 80s/90s and the 90s Fiat range seemed pretty competitive with even some desirable niche products like the barchetta and Coupe but now they're only just hanging on by the virtue of one car (500), which granted was an inspired move but where's the mainstream Fiesta competitor?
Subaru - I was a huge fan of the the Subaru brand in the 2000s, having been the owner of a "Blobeye" WRX and thinking of trading up to a Legacy Spec B or SG Forester XT but their current lineup is just an irrelevant void of nothingness. I understand that they are still quite popular elsewhere though.
Winners:
All the major Japanese brands transformed their reputations between about 1985 and 1995, from reliable but poor to drive to being cutting-edge.
Losers:
Peugeot were considered quite respectable in the 80s, very mass-market today
Citroen went from the engineering innovation of the SM to cut-price Peugeots
All the major Japanese brands transformed their reputations between about 1985 and 1995, from reliable but poor to drive to being cutting-edge.
Losers:
Peugeot were considered quite respectable in the 80s, very mass-market today
Citroen went from the engineering innovation of the SM to cut-price Peugeots
Winners:
Skoda
Kia / Hyundai
Losers:
Pontiac
SAAB
Holden - Australian icon for decades which shutdown at the end of last year.
Daewoo - consumed by GM and now churn out s
te SUVs. I wonder what they could have become given Kia / Hyundai’s success.
Vauxhall - slipped away but maybe going to rebound under PSA
Spot the common theme with the losers.
Skoda
Kia / Hyundai
Losers:
Pontiac
SAAB
Holden - Australian icon for decades which shutdown at the end of last year.
Daewoo - consumed by GM and now churn out s
te SUVs. I wonder what they could have become given Kia / Hyundai’s success.Vauxhall - slipped away but maybe going to rebound under PSA
Spot the common theme with the losers.
Jader1973 said:
Winners:
Skoda
Kia / Hyundai
Losers:
Pontiac
SAAB
Holden - Australian icon for decades which shutdown at the end of last year.
Daewoo - consumed by GM and now churn out ste SUVs. I wonder what they could have become given Kia / Hyundai’s success.
Vauxhall - slipped away but maybe going to rebound under PSA
Spot the common theme with the losers.
Yep, GM really are a sSkoda
Kia / Hyundai
Losers:
Pontiac
SAAB
Holden - Australian icon for decades which shutdown at the end of last year.
Daewoo - consumed by GM and now churn out s
te SUVs. I wonder what they could have become given Kia / Hyundai’s success.Vauxhall - slipped away but maybe going to rebound under PSA
Spot the common theme with the losers.
tshow aren't they?samoht said:
Winners:
All the major Japanese brands transformed their reputations between about 1985 and 1995, from reliable but poor to drive to being cutting-edge.
Losers:
Peugeot were considered quite respectable in the 80s, very mass-market today
Citroen went from the engineering innovation of the SM to cut-price Peugeots
The Japanese were winners up to 1995, then what happened? I don’t recognise your description of the Japanese being cutting edge for the last 20 years. Maybe the original Prius.All the major Japanese brands transformed their reputations between about 1985 and 1995, from reliable but poor to drive to being cutting-edge.
Losers:
Peugeot were considered quite respectable in the 80s, very mass-market today
Citroen went from the engineering innovation of the SM to cut-price Peugeots
In the early 90s Honda targeted 150k uk sales a year, 2019 they sold 150k in the whole of Europe.
Haven’t Mitsubishi said they are leaving the market? Mazda seems to have done ok, they seem to have turned around from selling rebadged fords to trying to be semi premium. Nissan, not sure they ever had a brilliant image, but the quashy isn’t thought of as particularly reliable. Toyota, not so much the car in front, but the taxi behind.
Japan have lost it to the Koreans. Of the last 40 years, the last 15 the Japanese have are losers.
Flumpo said:
The Japanese were winners up to 1995, then what happened? I don’t recognise your description of the Japanese being cutting edge for the last 20 years. Maybe the original Prius.
In the early 90s Honda targeted 150k uk sales a year, 2019 they sold 150k in the whole of Europe.
Haven’t Mitsubishi said they are leaving the market? Mazda seems to have done ok, they seem to have turned around from selling rebadged fords to trying to be semi premium. Nissan, not sure they ever had a brilliant image, but the quashy isn’t thought of as particularly reliable. Toyota, not so much the car in front, but the taxi behind.
Japan have lost it to the Koreans. Of the last 40 years, the last 15 the Japanese have are losers.
Totally agree they've lost competitive ground since 1995. I think they're basically even with the other mass-market manufacturers now, having been a bit ahead at their peak. But in 1980 they were behind - only maybe Mitsubishi have lost so much ground as to be back where they were 40 years ago. So Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Mazda are still ahead of where they were then, albeit not as strong as they were 25 years ago.In the early 90s Honda targeted 150k uk sales a year, 2019 they sold 150k in the whole of Europe.
Haven’t Mitsubishi said they are leaving the market? Mazda seems to have done ok, they seem to have turned around from selling rebadged fords to trying to be semi premium. Nissan, not sure they ever had a brilliant image, but the quashy isn’t thought of as particularly reliable. Toyota, not so much the car in front, but the taxi behind.
Japan have lost it to the Koreans. Of the last 40 years, the last 15 the Japanese have are losers.
I think the decline of the Japanese brands was probably around 15 years ago. I think from late 90s onwards Toyota concentrated more on the Lexus brand which were mostly good cars. The early 2000s Honda were very good cars, especially the Type Rs. Early 2000s Subaru and Mitsibushi were also good cars.
Absolutely Skoda and Hyundai/Kia, especially the latter in respect of the product - from stuff that was reskinned Mazda/Ford cast-offs to product which today looks well alongside any competitor in terms of design, performance and value.
In terms of brand image alone, Skoda has to take the win. I'm of the generation that grew up with Lada and Skoda jokes as a schoolboy staple, but I doubt anyone born after the VW takeover would understand why the jokes are funny.
In terms of brand image alone, Skoda has to take the win. I'm of the generation that grew up with Lada and Skoda jokes as a schoolboy staple, but I doubt anyone born after the VW takeover would understand why the jokes are funny.
Flumpo said:
samoht said:
Winners:
All the major Japanese brands transformed their reputations between about 1985 and 1995, from reliable but poor to drive to being cutting-edge.
Losers:
Peugeot were considered quite respectable in the 80s, very mass-market today
Citroen went from the engineering innovation of the SM to cut-price Peugeots
The Japanese were winners up to 1995, then what happened? I don’t recognise your description of the Japanese being cutting edge for the last 20 years. Maybe the original Prius.All the major Japanese brands transformed their reputations between about 1985 and 1995, from reliable but poor to drive to being cutting-edge.
Losers:
Peugeot were considered quite respectable in the 80s, very mass-market today
Citroen went from the engineering innovation of the SM to cut-price Peugeots
In the early 90s Honda targeted 150k uk sales a year, 2019 they sold 150k in the whole of Europe.
Haven’t Mitsubishi said they are leaving the market? Mazda seems to have done ok, they seem to have turned around from selling rebadged fords to trying to be semi premium. Nissan, not sure they ever had a brilliant image, but the quashy isn’t thought of as particularly reliable. Toyota, not so much the car in front, but the taxi behind.
Japan have lost it to the Koreans. Of the last 40 years, the last 15 the Japanese have are losers.
I finally bought a 2013 Civic a few years ago and what a disappointment. Its 1.8 NA engine was gutless and thirsty compared to the turbocharged engines you get in a contemporary Golf or Focus, it didn't even have IRS and felt very "cheap" compared to those two cars.
I agree that Mazda are doing ok. MX5 aside, not much for the performance enthusiast but if you just need a regular car, they look good, feel nice quality and drive well.
Toyota also deserve some credit for making some exiting stuff such as the GT86/GR86, Yaris GR, Supra and LC500 alongside the dull but worthy stuff.
Nissan have really dropped the ball on quality/reliability but at least do still have the GTR but Honda is the biggest disappointment. Only the Honda e I find mildly interesting and desirable but the range is pathetic for the money.
I'd probably go for Bentley. 40 years ago they were a quirky alternative to Rolls Royce, with the Mulsanne saloon and the unbelievably low-volume original Continental coupe. They were proper old man's cars. The Conti GT and much more recently the Bentayga have totally transformed their image and pool of buyers.
Jaguar steve said:
Mercedes.
Plummeted from the highest possible standard of engineering and a demographic of discrete middle class respectability to one of aggressively over styled £299 a month council estate bling.
The C124PPY plate thread tells you all you need to know.
You’ve summed the brand up perfectly.Plummeted from the highest possible standard of engineering and a demographic of discrete middle class respectability to one of aggressively over styled £299 a month council estate bling.
The C124PPY plate thread tells you all you need to know.
itcaptainslow said:
Jaguar steve said:
Mercedes.
Plummeted from the highest possible standard of engineering and a demographic of discrete middle class respectability to one of aggressively over styled £299 a month council estate bling.
The C124PPY plate thread tells you all you need to know.
You’ve summed the brand up perfectly.Plummeted from the highest possible standard of engineering and a demographic of discrete middle class respectability to one of aggressively over styled £299 a month council estate bling.
The C124PPY plate thread tells you all you need to know.
I'd point the same criticism at all of the "premium" German manufacturers, but Mercedes have fallen from a greater height. Jaguar steve said:
Mercedes.
Plummeted from the highest possible standard of engineering and a demographic of discrete middle class respectability to one of aggressively over styled £299 a month council estate bling.
The C124PPY plate thread tells you all you need to know.
Oh good call.Plummeted from the highest possible standard of engineering and a demographic of discrete middle class respectability to one of aggressively over styled £299 a month council estate bling.
The C124PPY plate thread tells you all you need to know.
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