RE: Dowsetts Classic Cars Tipo 184 | PH Meets

RE: Dowsetts Classic Cars Tipo 184 | PH Meets

Tuesday 29th June 2021

Dowsetts Classic Cars Tipo 184 | PH Meets

Do 1930s looks and 1990s underpinnings add up to 2020s fun?



You could argue long and hard about what constitutes motorsport's most glamorous period, but most would agree that the era of Grand Prix cars that straddled the Second World War should at least make the shortlist - high on both allure and danger. Yet for anyone wanting to play rather than just watch this is a hugely expensive club to join, with most bona fide racers from the period now much too valuable for actual competition.

Which is where Dowsetts Classic Cars' Tipo 184 comes in. On first glance it looks like it should be lining up next to A Mercedes W125 or Auto Union Type C. The reality is far more humble, and much cheaper. Underneath the use of a Mazda MX-5 engine, gearbox and suspension components means that anyone sufficiently handy with the snappers could build one for just over £20,000 plus the cost of a donor Mk2 MX-5. Alternatively, Dowsetts will sell a fully built version to pretty much exactly the spec you see here for around £60,000.

Attractive pricing - offset for the need to put in hundreds of hours of labour - has always been core to the appeal of kit cars. But the plans for the Tipo 184 are more ambitious, including a single-make race championship that should produce some very close competition from a pack of almost perfectly matched cars.



The original idea for the Tipo 184 came from Ant Anstead, the copper turned TV car builder (and co-owner of Dowsetts) who created a similar take on an Alfa 158 Alfetta for his 'Master Mechanic' show. That one was based on an MGTD chassis and used a modern 2.0-litre Alfa unit; it sold for $100,000 at Barrett-Jackson's Scottsdale auction in March. The decision to create a production version required a cheaper and more plentiful base car, as well as some substantial safety modifications to allow it to go racing.

"It's not meant to be a replica, it's an evocation," says Jeremy McNamara, Dowsetts' CEO, speaking to PH fresh from the car's launch at the London Classic Show at Syon Park last weekend. "The original 158 was one and a half litre and had eight cylinders, hence 158. Ours is a 1.8-litre four-cylinder, hence 184."

It doesn't take much mechanical nous to spot the modern underpinnings. "We had some people coming up to the car at the show who recognised the Mazda suspension, and we're not trying to hide that," McNamara explains, "we're trying to make the car as accessible as possible, that's the whole point - it's essentially a bolt together proposition."



Plenty of kit cars have used MX-5 parts before, with the ability of mechanical parts to outlive rusting body components on older examples meaning there are plenty of potential donors out there. "We picked an MOT failure up for just £300 last week," McNamara says, "mechanically there was nothing wrong with it."

The Tipo 184 uses a unique steel chassis combined with the front and rear subframes from the MX-5. "There are six bolts attaching the one at the front and eight bolts attaching the one at the rear - our chassis is designed to accept both of those as they are, although most people will obviously choose to clean them up and probably repaint them," McNamara says. Bodywork is glassfibre.

Suspension arms, hubs and brakes all come straight from the MX-5 - it keeps the road car's servo - but the Tipo 184 gets unassisted steering and unique coil-over shock absorbers. It also loses the road car's anti-roll bars and will run on cross ply tyres designed to give a period appropriate handling balance. All cars running in the championship will need to use a non-VVT version of the 1.8-litre engine and a five-speed gearbox. That means around 140hp against a weight of 700kg with the low-grip rubber ensuring that should still be exciting, especially when surrounded by a pack of rivals.



The humble engine is plumbed to a free-flow exhaust. The manifold has kept eight pipes, like the straight-eight original. "It's a bit of theatre to be honest," McNamara admits, "the front two and back two are blanks - but the exhaust does give it a really nice noise, it certainly doesn't sound like an MX-5."

Designed with input from the MSA, the integral roll hoop and a chassis designed to absorb crash loadings will make it much safer than any original car from this era. "We're actually going to stretch it a little bit for the production version beyond the prototype, so it will be able to accommodate people up to 6'2" or even 6'3" safely," McNamara promises.

Beyond the car, the bigger question is that of the planned race series: the need to fill a grid is always the challenge for promoters of any new championship. Those with longer memories might remember the abortive Formula Classic in the 1990s, based around a similar idea - in that case what was effectively downsized 1950s Grand Prix bodywork with Millington-Cosworth engines. No fewer than 18 cars were built for it, but none were ever raced. How will the Tipo championship ensure that those who build will have a reason to come?



"We're reasonably confident," McNamara says, honestly "you do need critical mass, which is going to be about 15 cars. So let's say you need to have 25 out there because not everybody is going to be doing every race. We think we can achieve that next year - and we've also got orders coming from all over the place, the 'States, Europe, Australia."

The planned race format will consist of a 15 minute qualifying session followed by two 15 minute races, to be held at a variety of tracks. And while some race series are struggling to fill grids, cheaper racing has been enjoying a boom recently; if entry costs can be kept reasonable then McNamara's predictions don't seem outlandish.

Kit car makers have a vested interest in underplaying the skills required to assemble their wares, but McNamara insists that 200 hours in a realistic timeframe for assembling a Tipo. "And that includes stripping the donor car," he says, "it depends on your skill level, but a keen amateur could do most things without any problems. You'll have to bend your brake pipes, or get them done, because it's too hard to ship pre-bent brake pipes. But there is no welding and no fabricating."



Slower builders, or those wanting to spread the cost, will also be able to buy a car bit by bit - chassis, suspension, interior and everything else sold as separate kits. Dowsetts is also working on a conversion pack that will enable the car to be made road legal - having passed an IVA test - and is also planning to ultimately offer different body options around the same chassis.

"We can create different body styles pretty easily, so on the same chassis and running gear you could have an Auto Union, or a Lancia, or something else from that era," McNamara says, "so you could have a grid with different shapes and colours, but everybody with the same power and basic performance. That would be pretty special, wouldn't it?"

It's hard to say no to that.


Author
Discussion

GreaseNipple

Original Poster:

462 posts

255 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
I love the idea of this, would want to see it in the flesh though, it seems to me like it could be too wide with the mx5 dimensions. Looks like it could do with 6 inches taking out of the track

ducnick

2,036 posts

257 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
It’s a cracking idea at £20k + donor car for the build.

Would like to see maserati 250f and Lancia d50 shaped bodies for the race series too.

Would a sports car body like Maserati 300s / Ferrari 250tr etc be a possibility too as I think these would fit the dimensions of the mx5 better and hide the modern suspension parts from the casual observer.

Vee12V

1,384 posts

174 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
The proportions are so terribly wrong that it hurts my eyes. Alfa should take 'em to court.

biggbn

26,973 posts

234 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Like that, sure its not perfectly proportioned, but its not a 100k plus replica.

Rumblestripe

3,475 posts

176 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Vee12V said:
The proportions are so terribly wrong that it hurts my eyes. Alfa should take 'em to court.
You might want to consider a sense of humour transplant.

Looks a real hoot, no one is going to mistake it for the real thing (so Alfa are not going to be going all legal on their rrse)

Good luck to them.

AJM6

109 posts

211 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
I think that looks a hoot and for once it's not 2 million quid!

Good luck to 'em!

Mr_Sukebe

388 posts

222 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
I like it. However, doesn’t look road legal?

AJM6

109 posts

211 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
And although blind tastings are obviously not possible with cars, I'd wager that this 'plonk' is far more 'drinkable' than the Valkyrie AMR Pro that's more that 100 times the cost!

waynecyclist

11,815 posts

128 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Love the 4 cylinder engine with 8 exhaust pipes laugh

Does not look 100% right, track looks too wide.

Turbobanana

7,163 posts

215 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Vee12V said:
The proportions are so terribly wrong that it hurts my eyes. Alfa should take 'em to court.
I think all they need to do is not have such a tall fairing for the head restraint. Attach that to the roll bar, reduce the height of the fairing to shoulder level (relative to the seated driver) and it'll look much better.

I like the idea: it reminds me of the bike-engined Legend series that used to (still does?) run, with '30s Ford and Chevy bodies in 2/3rds scale.

Rumblestripe

3,475 posts

176 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Mr_Sukebe said:
I like it. However, doesn’t look road legal?
You might want to have another crack at the article, if you get stuck just shout up!

Fishlegs

3,085 posts

153 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
In isolation, it looks ... icky.

But in my head a grid of them all sitting at 5k RPM waiting for the flag to drop, with the owners willing to get some proper wheel-to-open-wheel racing done, without fear of a £1m repair bill... now we're talking!

CharlesA

72 posts

88 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Love it - I think it would look fab without the roll-bar, which ruins the lines, but I suspect is the only way a new car can be raced (older cars are grandfathered? 20 years ago I remember there was talk that they might all have to have roll bars, but that seems to have been headed off).

A road going one with tire-hugging cycle wings (are mudguards legally required - I seem to remember that they are only needed if it is raining - maybe that is for old cars only?) would be an absolute hoot

Only slight niggle is, given the talk about not trying to hide its origins, I don't get the fake 8 cylinder exhaust - the Maserati 4CL/CLT looks great with only four exhausts.

Darren C

29 posts

79 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Thanks for the kind words on the Tipo 184
Its an evocation and during the making of Master Mechanic TV show, Alfa Romeo invited the car onto their stand at the Grand Prix & presented it with a Quadrifoglio & their blessing (there is no registered i.p. or copyright on the 158 design)
With evolution and to meet safety regulations for road & racing I had no options but to add a roll bar and other changes plus completely re engineering the vehicle to take as much as the donor MX5 as possible to keep the cost down to make the car accessible.
The body was changed to envelop the roll bar & I've added a power bulge to make room for the MX5 induction manifold, plus widened the 158 body to keep it all in aesthetic proportions forced by the safety standards.
The car is an evocation of this golden age of pre war race car that competed in post war austerity, not a replica.
Designed without abs, anti roll bars, on period wire wheels with blockley period tyres, it offers the driving experience of a pre war car with MX5 reliability without being a £gazillionaire with the support of a race team!
The project is also to encourage parents & kids to get involved with the spanners and off their playstations, its for colleges, those who dream of building something and I have engineered it to be very simple to assemble, with basic hand tools so you dont need any prior experience (although obviously that helps)
We've just finished filming our assembly manual video, so each component is explained and assembled in a series of short video tutorials, purposely in a simple environment with no expensive equipment, (just a jack & axle stands & hand tools)
Anyone should be able to put the kit together & feel epic!
The car will be displayed at numerous events this year as Covid restrictions allow, please come along and have a look and chat

Kindest Regards
Darren Collins

Manic Street Sleeper

1,173 posts

55 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Darren C said:
Thanks for the kind words on the Tipo 184
Its an evocation and during the making of Master Mechanic TV show, Alfa Romeo invited the car onto their stand at the Grand Prix & presented it with a Quadrifoglio & their blessing (there is no registered i.p. or copyright on the 158 design)
With evolution and to meet safety regulations for road & racing I had no options but to add a roll bar and other changes plus completely re engineering the vehicle to take as much as the donor MX5 as possible to keep the cost down to make the car accessible.
The body was changed to envelop the roll bar & I've added a power bulge to make room for the MX5 induction manifold, plus widened the 158 body to keep it all in aesthetic proportions forced by the safety standards.
The car is an evocation of this golden age of pre war race car that competed in post war austerity, not a replica.
Designed without abs, anti roll bars, on period wire wheels with blockley period tyres, it offers the driving experience of a pre war car with MX5 reliability without being a £gazillionaire with the support of a race team!
The project is also to encourage parents & kids to get involved with the spanners and off their playstations, its for colleges, those who dream of building something and I have engineered it to be very simple to assemble, with basic hand tools so you dont need any prior experience (although obviously that helps)
We've just finished filming our assembly manual video, so each component is explained and assembled in a series of short video tutorials, purposely in a simple environment with no expensive equipment, (just a jack & axle stands & hand tools)
Anyone should be able to put the kit together & feel epic!
The car will be displayed at numerous events this year as Covid restrictions allow, please come along and have a look and chat

Kindest Regards
Darren Collins
thumbup

British Beef

2,496 posts

179 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all

I bet that would be more fun and more of an event to drive than most new supercars / sports cars!

Imagine with an alfa V6 up front .........

Dale487

1,453 posts

137 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
British Beef said:
I bet that would be more fun and more of an event to drive than most new supercars / sports cars!

Imagine with an alfa V6 up front .........
The Ford/Jaguar Porsche originated V6 fits in the MX5 so may be an easier option - In the US crate V8s have been fitted to MX5s.

B10

1,322 posts

281 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Love it. Brilliant.

HeMightBeBanned

621 posts

192 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
I love the idea of building one of these with my daughter, but where would we be able to use it? I wouldn't ever go in for the 1-make race series as I already compete in a Lotus hillclimb and sprint series, it's not road-legal and you can't do trackdays in open-wheeled cars. So it's basically unusable?


TheOrangePeril

789 posts

194 months

Tuesday 29th June 2021
quotequote all
Vee12V said:
The proportions are so terribly wrong that it hurts my eyes. Alfa should take 'em to court.
Why? The designer of the inspirations is long since dead and gone. There's no moral argument for continuing to cream the IP that they created. It's fantastic that this kind of thing is in the public domain now, allowing fun cars like this to be created.