Remaps - Are They Really All The Same ?
Discussion
I need to remap my Mercedes 3 litre diesel and calling around whilst they all promise the earth I get the impression that they all (mobile and garage based) email your map to the main tuning company and get a generic +10 / 20% generic map back
I asked was it simply a case of increasing the turbo and pump pressure by say 10% and they all say no but can't seem to tell me what is actually done
I've fitted and remapped aftermarket replacement and piggyback ecus so would like to know what is actually being done regarding increased fuel / boost pressure so I can make an educated choice
I've asked on the model specific FB group and one mobile guy has done several but if I'm honest I'd rather go to a garage than have a mobile guy - perhaps that's just old fashioned
I asked was it simply a case of increasing the turbo and pump pressure by say 10% and they all say no but can't seem to tell me what is actually done
I've fitted and remapped aftermarket replacement and piggyback ecus so would like to know what is actually being done regarding increased fuel / boost pressure so I can make an educated choice
I've asked on the model specific FB group and one mobile guy has done several but if I'm honest I'd rather go to a garage than have a mobile guy - perhaps that's just old fashioned
In a word no... They are not all the same.
My current car has a custom remap and was rolling road tuned, mine isn't a about power it's about a JDM engine running well on 99 rather than 100 Ron. Map has been on for years and is smooth and well known.
I had a driveway remap on my old 320d, and it came alive, it was much more rapid and a big hit of torque... However on wide open throttle it threw out big clouds of smoke... The clutch didn't last long after.
My advice would be get a proper custom tune, on a rolling road (ideally with a road test too) and look for someone who has worked on your model are car before.
The cheap ones often up turbo pressure only
There are threads on here with people having blown various engine components following a cheap remap, there are also alot of examples where clutches don't last long, even a few where people say how good their remap is... Then post a few months later about issues
Find someone with the same car, who's had the map on the car for a good length of time without issue and use same place if you can
My current car has a custom remap and was rolling road tuned, mine isn't a about power it's about a JDM engine running well on 99 rather than 100 Ron. Map has been on for years and is smooth and well known.
I had a driveway remap on my old 320d, and it came alive, it was much more rapid and a big hit of torque... However on wide open throttle it threw out big clouds of smoke... The clutch didn't last long after.
My advice would be get a proper custom tune, on a rolling road (ideally with a road test too) and look for someone who has worked on your model are car before.
The cheap ones often up turbo pressure only
There are threads on here with people having blown various engine components following a cheap remap, there are also alot of examples where clutches don't last long, even a few where people say how good their remap is... Then post a few months later about issues
Find someone with the same car, who's had the map on the car for a good length of time without issue and use same place if you can
Edited by Roboticarm on Wednesday 4th August 15:17
Roboticarm said:
In a word no... They are not all the same.
My current car has a custom remap and was rolling road tuned, mine isn't a about power it's about a JDM engine running well on 99 rather than 100 Ron. Map has been on for years and is smooth and well known.
I had a driveway remap on my old 320d, and it came alive, it was much more rapid and a big hit of torque... However on wide open throttle it threw out big clouds of smoke... The clutch didn't last long after.
My advice would be get a proper custom tune, on a rolling road (ideally with a road test too) and look for someone who has worked on your model are car before.
The cheap ones often up turbo pressure only
There are threads on here with people having blown various engine components following a cheap remap, there are also alot of examples where clutches don't last long, even a few where people say how good their remap is... Then post a few months later about issues
Find someone with the same car, who's had the map on the car for a good length of time without issue and use same place if you can
I agree custom RR remaps are different but that's probably 1% or less and whilst I'd pay that for my RX7 this is just a diesel Merc My current car has a custom remap and was rolling road tuned, mine isn't a about power it's about a JDM engine running well on 99 rather than 100 Ron. Map has been on for years and is smooth and well known.
I had a driveway remap on my old 320d, and it came alive, it was much more rapid and a big hit of torque... However on wide open throttle it threw out big clouds of smoke... The clutch didn't last long after.
My advice would be get a proper custom tune, on a rolling road (ideally with a road test too) and look for someone who has worked on your model are car before.
The cheap ones often up turbo pressure only
There are threads on here with people having blown various engine components following a cheap remap, there are also alot of examples where clutches don't last long, even a few where people say how good their remap is... Then post a few months later about issues
Find someone with the same car, who's had the map on the car for a good length of time without issue and use same place if you can
Perhaps my question should be are all non RR maps the same
Generic (or driveway) maps are just that, generic - best case scenario, it'll be a mild tune to keep within average tolerances so it's a one size fits all without breaking something.
Worst case, as already mentioned, it'll be a one parameter ramped up, car will go well for a few months and then something will go pop.
Maps which are done on a rolling road are generally bespoke (starting with a base 'modified map') and fine tuned depending on how the car responds.
This is especially useful when you have other modifications that a generic one won't take into account.
Worst case, as already mentioned, it'll be a one parameter ramped up, car will go well for a few months and then something will go pop.
Maps which are done on a rolling road are generally bespoke (starting with a base 'modified map') and fine tuned depending on how the car responds.
This is especially useful when you have other modifications that a generic one won't take into account.
KTMsm said:
Perhaps my question should be are all non RR maps the same
No, but they will work on similar principles...Generally they're updating the boost levels at low and high RPM to get the boost to come in sooner and last a little longer. The on the fuel side they're adding plenty more for increased boost, otherwise adding a little in the usual regions to give it a little more oomph (and usually smoke).
If you get an "economy" remap they tend to pull out some of the "pilot" injection pulses early in the combustion cycle which smooth out the ignition.
Custom remaps come into their own when a car is modified other than just the map, after all they all are delivered on a generic map from the manufacturer optimised for the standard hardware, even then tuners have maps for standard configurations of bolt on components.
There are different off the shelf maps as well, some are more aggressive than others in terms of how boost is built across the rev range which can have the effect of making the car feel faster at the expenses of traction and drivetrain stresses. A remap will often overwhelm an older clutch or one that isnt really specced beyond the standard output. With some cars a new clutch is a given, others cope pretty well, but if you increase torque and bring it in quicker it will overwhelm the clutch, doesn't necessarily mean its a bad map.
Also, a custom tune is often just the standard off the shelf map but the car has been put on the rolling road and the operator/tuner has done a bit of logging, maybe tweaked something here or there but often more as a sanity check to see if the ecu is pulling timing and whether on the whole the car is happy with the new parameters.
Mapping something from scratch, properly is a pretty involved process requiring loads of rolling road time, time on the road, examining logs and tweaking things, can take days, weeks or even months.
There are different off the shelf maps as well, some are more aggressive than others in terms of how boost is built across the rev range which can have the effect of making the car feel faster at the expenses of traction and drivetrain stresses. A remap will often overwhelm an older clutch or one that isnt really specced beyond the standard output. With some cars a new clutch is a given, others cope pretty well, but if you increase torque and bring it in quicker it will overwhelm the clutch, doesn't necessarily mean its a bad map.
Also, a custom tune is often just the standard off the shelf map but the car has been put on the rolling road and the operator/tuner has done a bit of logging, maybe tweaked something here or there but often more as a sanity check to see if the ecu is pulling timing and whether on the whole the car is happy with the new parameters.
Mapping something from scratch, properly is a pretty involved process requiring loads of rolling road time, time on the road, examining logs and tweaking things, can take days, weeks or even months.
A lot of them are the same, yes. They're often purchased by garages as a file, so you could go to ten different garages/companies who will give you a different price and different sales pitch for the same file. Generally they are locked, so the chances are most of the people selling them will have no idea what the map actually does but will be able to upload it just fine. Usually they will be sold with a peak-figure claim because that's what your average punter will be interested in. On an otherwise standard setup, there's unlikely to be any real danger of running one. It might not drive particularly any better, but it might make the claimed peak output at some point in the rev range.
There is a difference between a 'map' (as they are usually advertised) and a proper map in the traditional sense, which involves looking at your specific parameters and adjusting accordingly for a particular purpose, although they can often start with the same file which is then tweaked.
There is a difference between a 'map' (as they are usually advertised) and a proper map in the traditional sense, which involves looking at your specific parameters and adjusting accordingly for a particular purpose, although they can often start with the same file which is then tweaked.
I had my last 3.0 diesel Mercedes remapped by Celtic Tuning. I was pleased with the performance, but do wonder if the subsequent need for an Italian tune-up to get through each MOT and the eventual death of the injectors would have happened later had I not done it. Still, remapped at 120k and ran it to 160k.
Rogue86 said:
A lot of them are the same, yes. They're often purchased by garages as a file, so you could go to ten different garages/companies who will give you a different price and different sales pitch for the same file. Generally they are locked, so the chances are most of the people selling them will have no idea what the map actually does but will be able to upload it just fine.
There is a difference between a 'map' (as they are usually advertised) and a proper map in the traditional sense, which involves looking at your specific parameters and adjusting accordingly for a particular purpose, although they can often start with the same file which is then tweaked.
Thanks - that's what I thoughtThere is a difference between a 'map' (as they are usually advertised) and a proper map in the traditional sense, which involves looking at your specific parameters and adjusting accordingly for a particular purpose, although they can often start with the same file which is then tweaked.
When I had my VW T4 remapped I assumed as he had a RR that it would be tweaked to suit but all he did was a before and after power run - admittedly it was night and day different in power and I had no issues in 4 years of ownership
If your just getting a standard map usually called a ‘stage 1’ it will most probably be a generic map already created from doing previous cars and will be fine for your car. As others have said it’s when you start modifying things, turbos, exhaust etc is when a custom pay comes into its own as your own car and choice of selected mods will be different to others.
Jdnatureboy said:
I was wondering about this myself. Bought a Saab 9-3 convertible Ttid, 180bhp. My family car is an Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo and the low down torque is amazing. I would like to remap the Saab for more low down torque over top end power so would a rolling road remap cater to my preferences?
It rarely works like that - it's a function of engine size, camshaft, turbo size etc so all they can easily do is turn up the fuel and the boostJdnatureboy said:
I was wondering about this myself. Bought a Saab 9-3 convertible Ttid, 180bhp. My family car is an Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo and the low down torque is amazing. I would like to remap the Saab for more low down torque over top end power so would a rolling road remap cater to my preferences?
Talk to Abbott Racing, I think they are still about and what they don't know about Saabs... vaud said:
Jdnatureboy said:
I was wondering about this myself. Bought a Saab 9-3 convertible Ttid, 180bhp. My family car is an Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo and the low down torque is amazing. I would like to remap the Saab for more low down torque over top end power so would a rolling road remap cater to my preferences?
Talk to Abbott Racing, I think they are still about and what they don't know about Saabs... http://noobtune.co.uk/
They definitely are not all the same. If you get a driveway remap done by some 24 year old bozo off Facebook with a tuning box for £150 vs. a proper tuning company like REVO with hundreds of thousands of miles of testing and rolling road facilities for several hundred quid then it's kind of obvious one is going to be better than the other.
Had my Volvo D5 done last year by a reputable mobile one who uses files from companies who have created good maps. He says alot of his work it going round 'fixing' poor aftermarket maps on peoples cars. Been very happy with mine. Has definitely increased mid range response and power and with zero smoke on WOT. Fuel consumption has dropped just a tiny bit but worth it for the better throttle response and power.
georgeyboy12345 said:
They definitely are not all the same. If you get a driveway remap done by some 24 year old bozo off Facebook with a tuning box for £150 vs. a proper tuning company like REVO with hundreds of thousands of miles of testing and rolling road facilities for several hundred quid then it's kind of obvious one is going to be better than the other.
The thing you are missing is the bozo may also be using Revo maps and demon maps may be exactly the same or better than RevoGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff