Discussion
Last night our cameras picked up a couple of *****s trying to steal our car with what looks like pretty sophisticated (or at least professionally made) keyless-entry spoofing equipment.
I suppose that the good news is that they failed and this type of attempted theft leaves no damage.
But it left me wondering, is there something on the market which can detect the incoming signal from their equipment and sound an alarm?
I suppose that the good news is that they failed and this type of attempted theft leaves no damage.
But it left me wondering, is there something on the market which can detect the incoming signal from their equipment and sound an alarm?
nyt said:
Last night our cameras picked up a couple of *****s trying to steal our car with what looks like pretty sophisticated (or at least professionally made) keyless-entry spoofing equipment.
I suppose that the good news is that they failed and this type of attempted theft leaves no damage.
But it left me wondering, is there something on the market which can detect the incoming signal from their equipment and sound an alarm?
The problem is their equipment doesn't emit a signal, it takes the signal from your own key and relays it to the car to make it think you are stood next to it.I suppose that the good news is that they failed and this type of attempted theft leaves no damage.
But it left me wondering, is there something on the market which can detect the incoming signal from their equipment and sound an alarm?
king aggressive dog, or (if it were possible) a Velociraptor?grumbas said:
As this is prevalent I'm surprised there's not a way to simply disable keyless entry - I'd far rather have to press the unlock button on the fob to avoid the hassle of having the car nicked!
I recently disabled keyless entry on the wife’s Jag XF. Press the headlight button on the key three times and then the unlock button once. I actually read about it on another thread on PH.I’m sure there is a similar procedure on most other vehicles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qskP9czE7uc
Zoon said:
grumbas said:
As this is prevalent I'm surprised there's not a way to simply disable keyless entry - I'd far rather have to press the unlock button on the fob to avoid the hassle of having the car nicked!
Removing the battery from the key disables it.Einion Yrth said:
Zoon said:
grumbas said:
As this is prevalent I'm surprised there's not a way to simply disable keyless entry - I'd far rather have to press the unlock button on the fob to avoid the hassle of having the car nicked!
Removing the battery from the key disables it.Zoon said:
Einion Yrth said:
Zoon said:
grumbas said:
As this is prevalent I'm surprised there's not a way to simply disable keyless entry - I'd far rather have to press the unlock button on the fob to avoid the hassle of having the car nicked!
Removing the battery from the key disables it.Zoon said:
The problem is their equipment doesn't emit a signal, it takes the signal from your own key and relays it to the car to make it think you are stood next to it.
Surely the car must emit a signal to which the key responds? The key would presumably lose battery charge quite quickly if it were constantly transmitting.I assumed that whatever was being held to the car was transmitting that signal to the white box which amplified it and hoped to reach a key inside the house.
Keys were protected in a faraday pouch which is presumably why the theft attempt failed
48k said:
You are both correct.
In the case of passive keyless entry (as opposed to pressing a button on the keyfob) the keyfob is constantly listening for a signal from the car. The white box being held by the chap at the house is an amplifier/relay. The chap by the car is holding a receiver/transmitter. This sends the car signal to the white box which broadcasts it out, hoping to wake the key up. If the key is in range of the white box (about 5m or so) the key thinks it's near the car so responds with its own code which is amplified and broadcast back by the white box, and the box by the car receives this and relays it to the car so that the signal is strong enough that the car is tricked in to thinking the key is nearby and unlocks and can be started.
Since your key was in a Faraday wallet, it couldn't be woken up by the relayed signal from the car so the scrotes didn't succeed.
Zoon is correct because all their equipment is doing is relaying the signal from your own key so the car can't tell that the real key is many metres away because the signal is as strong as if the key was right next to the car.
If they had managed to steal the car, would they be able to turn the car off and restart it again, or what do they do? I can’t imagine that they could leave it running all night.In the case of passive keyless entry (as opposed to pressing a button on the keyfob) the keyfob is constantly listening for a signal from the car. The white box being held by the chap at the house is an amplifier/relay. The chap by the car is holding a receiver/transmitter. This sends the car signal to the white box which broadcasts it out, hoping to wake the key up. If the key is in range of the white box (about 5m or so) the key thinks it's near the car so responds with its own code which is amplified and broadcast back by the white box, and the box by the car receives this and relays it to the car so that the signal is strong enough that the car is tricked in to thinking the key is nearby and unlocks and can be started.
Since your key was in a Faraday wallet, it couldn't be woken up by the relayed signal from the car so the scrotes didn't succeed.
Zoon is correct because all their equipment is doing is relaying the signal from your own key so the car can't tell that the real key is many metres away because the signal is as strong as if the key was right next to the car.
Edited by 48k on Wednesday 22 September 13:49
nyt said:
Zoon said:
The problem is their equipment doesn't emit a signal, it takes the signal from your own key and relays it to the car to make it think you are stood next to it.
Surely the car must emit a signal to which the key responds? The key would presumably lose battery charge quite quickly if it were constantly transmitting.I assumed that whatever was being held to the car was transmitting that signal to the white box which amplified it and hoped to reach a key inside the house.
In the case of passive keyless entry (as opposed to pressing a button on the keyfob) the keyfob is constantly listening for a signal from the car. The white box being held by the chap at the house is an amplifier/relay. The chap by the car is holding a receiver/transmitter. This sends the car signal to the white box which broadcasts it out, hoping to wake the key up. If the key is in range of the white box (about 5m or so) the key thinks it's near the car so responds with its own code which is amplified and broadcast back by the white box, and the box by the car receives this and relays it to the car so that the signal is strong enough that the car is tricked in to thinking the key is nearby and unlocks and can be started.
Since your key was in a Faraday wallet, it couldn't be woken up by the relayed signal from the car so the scrotes didn't succeed.
Zoon is correct because all their equipment is doing is relaying the signal from your own key. The car can't tell that the real key is many metres away because the signal is as strong as if the key was right next to the car. So there won't be something on the market that can block "their" signal because it would lock you out too.
I believe the very latest systems such as what is fitted to the ID3 use ultra wideband signals to be able to pinpoint the key location with cm accuracy (so for example only the drivers door unlocks if the car detects you are approaching from that side) and the system also checks that the key is present in the car when moving, so for example if the car was accessed by relay theft, eventually it would recognise that there is not a key present that is transmitting the correct codes.
Ructions said:
If they had managed to steal the car, would they be able to turn the car off and restart it again, or what do they do? I can’t imagine that they could leave it running all night.
Once it’s parked far away from your property and other people they have time to access the OBD programme a new key / do other things. The relay theft is used to get the vehicle out as quickly as possible. Old tricks and hacks then take over after that skinnyman said:
This was a big problem for Ford's a few years back, ST's & RS's being particularly easy to steal. Their new keys have motion sensors built in, after 10 mins of being still they turn off and no longer emit a signal. No idea why it took so long for this to be thought of tbh.
I had one of the first RS', almost instantly I heard they were being targeted, I rang my dealer for some advice about securing it, they advised me to go to Halfords and buy a steering lock 
Ghost immobiliser sorted out the issue though - surprised manufacturers haven't designed something similar.
AB said:
Pretty certain my key has a motion sensor in it which 'switches the key off' when it's put down at home and not moving. Easiest solution, no?
The easiest solution is to open the car by pressing a button on the key. 
But yes, motion sensors are increasingly common on keyless fobs now.
kambites said:
The easiest solution is to open the car by pressing a button on the key.
But yes, motion sensors are increasingly common on keyless fobs now.
Yes it's a bit lazy but if your key lives in your bag it makes life a little bit easier. It also (on my car) allows you to wave your foot under the bumper to open the boot which is handy if you have a box in your hands. But yes, motion sensors are increasingly common on keyless fobs now.
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