What a depressing state of affairs
Discussion
I am aware this is all going to come across as a bit Eeyore, for which I apologise.
Under normal circumstances, I consider myself quite an optimistic chap, generally. I tend to see the best in most situations, and in most people also, but a recent experience has tested this quite significantly; namely, a cover-to-cover read of the latest issue of CAR magazine where the sheer relentlessness of the bad news (to me, others will call it progress) was just so overwhelming, it was impossible to ignore.
This is not a pop at CAR magazine specifically. It just so happened that was the publication that the other half kindly picked up for me from the newsagent as something to read. CAR were doing their job well in reporting the latest and greatest in the world of cars. The issue for me is that the latest and greatest in the world of cars is actually pretty horrifying for someone who loves cars and loves driving. And it's taken one issue to make me appreciate just how bad things are.
In one issue:
New SUVs or crossovers from Citroen, Maserati and Genesis
A new BEV crossover from Nissan
New 2.1 tonne, £90,000+ electric crossover from Lotus (!)
New 2.5 tonne plug in hybrid S Class
Next gen RS6 to be a BEV.
New 2.6 tonne electric 7 series (i7) from BMW
Lexus launches an Infotainment system that works after persisting for years with one that didn't.
More than one mention of 'vegan leather', which to me is the most cynical way of manufacturers saving a few quid by trimming seats in cheaper plastic (or material with a mix of plant and plastic content), while pretentiously positioning it as desirable, or even 'premium'. Reminds me of Del Boy's dodgy PVC briefcases which he described as "old English vinyl". Difference being, that was comedy and we laughed at it.
The mag did at least make some effort with a 'best EVs for petrolheads' article which lists 10 EVs with driver appeal, and on the face of it does at least suggest the future isn't all bad. However, you can't help noticing, the contenders, as tested, start at £43k for the ID.3 and go all the way up to £107k for the EQS 450+. Most of them sit between £50k and £70k. Which is way above most people's budgets even with creative calculations on the 'mumflies'. It also wasn't wasted on me that 8 of the 10 weigh the wrong side of two tonnes, and more concerning, a slightly different 8 out of the 10 couldn't even achieve 250 miles on a full charge when tested. Doesn't it feel like we've been here, or hereabouts for ages now?
Even some of the petrolhead highlights are depressing. A feature on the Lamborghini Tecnica prototype has the headline "Raging Bull, Dying Light" as it talks about how the model will be Lamborghini's penultimate pure combustion model. Elsewhere, there's a first drive of the sold-out Aventador Ultimae, which devotes several paragraphs to explaining how it is the last of the unhybridised Lambo V12s, and the end of an era.
There was some good stuff - an interesting comparison of an i20N and an entry level Caterham, a feature on their new long term RS3 and a brilliant review of the Cayman GT4 RS, and Alpine A110S. But that was about it.
I never thought I'd say this, but I really do feel for the first time that my interest in cars has a finite future. Not because I have an inherent dislike of EVs, but because all of the ones you might actually want to drive, to own and to go out and enjoy just for the sake of driving them, cost twice as much as the petrol car I drive now that does all of those things, would impose significant compromises on how I use a car, and weigh at least half a tonne more. And even if you could somehow get around all that, for every one of those cars, they seem to be launching 2 that weigh 2.5 tonnes and are the size of small bungalows. And the tech involved is increasingly going to marginalise the driver, with the end goal being to ultimately replace them.
Thing is I know that progress doesn't stand still for the rantings of one middle aged man, and neither should it. But it's taken until now for me to realise just how irrelevant car enthusiasts are going to become, and quickly, especially when it comes to new cars. I'm sure similar people ranted on whatever forums were available at the time when steam engines gave way to diesels and electrics, and for the first time I kind of know how they feel. The future for me is classics, I think.
[/rant]
Under normal circumstances, I consider myself quite an optimistic chap, generally. I tend to see the best in most situations, and in most people also, but a recent experience has tested this quite significantly; namely, a cover-to-cover read of the latest issue of CAR magazine where the sheer relentlessness of the bad news (to me, others will call it progress) was just so overwhelming, it was impossible to ignore.
This is not a pop at CAR magazine specifically. It just so happened that was the publication that the other half kindly picked up for me from the newsagent as something to read. CAR were doing their job well in reporting the latest and greatest in the world of cars. The issue for me is that the latest and greatest in the world of cars is actually pretty horrifying for someone who loves cars and loves driving. And it's taken one issue to make me appreciate just how bad things are.
In one issue:
New SUVs or crossovers from Citroen, Maserati and Genesis
A new BEV crossover from Nissan
New 2.1 tonne, £90,000+ electric crossover from Lotus (!)
New 2.5 tonne plug in hybrid S Class
Next gen RS6 to be a BEV.
New 2.6 tonne electric 7 series (i7) from BMW
Lexus launches an Infotainment system that works after persisting for years with one that didn't.
More than one mention of 'vegan leather', which to me is the most cynical way of manufacturers saving a few quid by trimming seats in cheaper plastic (or material with a mix of plant and plastic content), while pretentiously positioning it as desirable, or even 'premium'. Reminds me of Del Boy's dodgy PVC briefcases which he described as "old English vinyl". Difference being, that was comedy and we laughed at it.
The mag did at least make some effort with a 'best EVs for petrolheads' article which lists 10 EVs with driver appeal, and on the face of it does at least suggest the future isn't all bad. However, you can't help noticing, the contenders, as tested, start at £43k for the ID.3 and go all the way up to £107k for the EQS 450+. Most of them sit between £50k and £70k. Which is way above most people's budgets even with creative calculations on the 'mumflies'. It also wasn't wasted on me that 8 of the 10 weigh the wrong side of two tonnes, and more concerning, a slightly different 8 out of the 10 couldn't even achieve 250 miles on a full charge when tested. Doesn't it feel like we've been here, or hereabouts for ages now?
Even some of the petrolhead highlights are depressing. A feature on the Lamborghini Tecnica prototype has the headline "Raging Bull, Dying Light" as it talks about how the model will be Lamborghini's penultimate pure combustion model. Elsewhere, there's a first drive of the sold-out Aventador Ultimae, which devotes several paragraphs to explaining how it is the last of the unhybridised Lambo V12s, and the end of an era.
There was some good stuff - an interesting comparison of an i20N and an entry level Caterham, a feature on their new long term RS3 and a brilliant review of the Cayman GT4 RS, and Alpine A110S. But that was about it.
I never thought I'd say this, but I really do feel for the first time that my interest in cars has a finite future. Not because I have an inherent dislike of EVs, but because all of the ones you might actually want to drive, to own and to go out and enjoy just for the sake of driving them, cost twice as much as the petrol car I drive now that does all of those things, would impose significant compromises on how I use a car, and weigh at least half a tonne more. And even if you could somehow get around all that, for every one of those cars, they seem to be launching 2 that weigh 2.5 tonnes and are the size of small bungalows. And the tech involved is increasingly going to marginalise the driver, with the end goal being to ultimately replace them.
Thing is I know that progress doesn't stand still for the rantings of one middle aged man, and neither should it. But it's taken until now for me to realise just how irrelevant car enthusiasts are going to become, and quickly, especially when it comes to new cars. I'm sure similar people ranted on whatever forums were available at the time when steam engines gave way to diesels and electrics, and for the first time I kind of know how they feel. The future for me is classics, I think.
[/rant]
As an ID3 owner I can say now that it is as close to a 'drivers car' as a pedal cycle is, and this goes to show how bad the EV market is in regards satisfying the enthusiast driver, as a virtually free to run tool with no oily bits acquired via a Ltd company (my wifes, i'm not a PH powerfully built company director that dominates his stairs) its a great bit of kit but far less fun than our i3 was but neither did I have any desire to just go for a spin in ...
I agree with all you say.
I agree with all you say.
Right now manufacturers are putting out SUV/Saloon as BEV because that is what the majority of people want to buy and also the technology isn't light enough or small enough to fit in a Cayman/Emira type product. When Porsche launch the EV 718 in a years time and the Alpine/Lotus products come to market then we will see lighter options that appeal to traditional performance car buyers. Right now you just see family/business driver products because that is the make up of the market.
D4rez said:
also the technology isn't light enough or small enough to fit in a Cayman/Emira type product.
Yes it is, you could easily repackage an i3 drivetrain to power an MX5 sized sports car or the Tesla 3 drivetrain for an Emira sized one, as long as they can get to 100mph the real win is in their power deliver 0-80 when tuned for the use .... Even my ID3 platform with different software setting would make a great 'hot hatch' platform aligned to better suspension and steering set up.
Realistically by 2030 the only new ICE cars are going to be supercars, through some sort of concession made to their manufacturers.
That's just a reality of progress and a new generation of people with elevated concerns for the environment.
In terms of the headline figure for new cars (i.e. EVs), I'm not sure how resonant that really is given how many new cars are bought on the never-never. Few people can afford the balloon payment for new cars, much less the actual RRP, but they can afford to pay £X a month for 1/2 - 2/3 of the RRP.
The thing is - this makes total sense for a great number of people where a) they always need a car and b) are prepared to pay indefinitely for one, without ever actually owning it and c) it's a lot less hassle than finding the funds for, and subsequently trying to shift an expensive car privately, for the above 2 reasons.
You can independantly rage against the dying of the light, but EV progress marches on whether you like it or not.
That's just a reality of progress and a new generation of people with elevated concerns for the environment.
In terms of the headline figure for new cars (i.e. EVs), I'm not sure how resonant that really is given how many new cars are bought on the never-never. Few people can afford the balloon payment for new cars, much less the actual RRP, but they can afford to pay £X a month for 1/2 - 2/3 of the RRP.
The thing is - this makes total sense for a great number of people where a) they always need a car and b) are prepared to pay indefinitely for one, without ever actually owning it and c) it's a lot less hassle than finding the funds for, and subsequently trying to shift an expensive car privately, for the above 2 reasons.
You can independantly rage against the dying of the light, but EV progress marches on whether you like it or not.
OP, I completely get where you’re coming from. I read the article on the Alfa Romeo Montreal and I remember what it was like to be a car-mad young lad in the 70s. The bewildering array of cars on the road, every manufacturer had their own style, so distinct from one another. These days I just see bland and overweight SUVs everywhere. Add to that the constant reminder that this generation of car will be the final ICE version.
As others have said, if you’re a petrolhead then stick to the older models. I recently bought a 2006 Boxster and was instantly reminded why I love cars so much. A fix of early morning driving at the weekend is usually just enough to keep my sane until the next time.
As others have said, if you’re a petrolhead then stick to the older models. I recently bought a 2006 Boxster and was instantly reminded why I love cars so much. A fix of early morning driving at the weekend is usually just enough to keep my sane until the next time.
Chubbyross said:
OP, I completely get where you’re coming from. I read the article on the Alfa Romeo Montreal and I remember what it was like to be a car-mad young lad in the 70s. The bewildering array of cars on the road, every manufacturer had their own style, so distinct from one another. These days I just see bland and overweight SUVs everywhere.
This is pretty much me. My real passion in cars (as in, wishing to own one) stops in about 1995, but I've always been interested in cars and the motor industry and right through the 2000s I could identify at a glance pretty much every car model on the roads, knew where each model sat in it's maker's range, which platforms where shared with what, what design and engineering features distinguished car A from car B and so on. Then a few years back I realised that there not only whole car models but entire car makers that I simply didn't care about. It's all just various sizes of SUV. I recently saw a news story that Citroen are going to stop making MPVs and was actually a little sad to read it. Not because I particularly have any affection for Citroen MPVs, but because it's yet another bit of variety gone from the roads. The days of when any car maker worth its salt offered a range like supermini --> family hatch --> repmobile saloon --> MPV/people carrier --> some sort of SUV or 4x4 --> something like a sports car or a coupe, are long gone. Never mind that you had some marques that really put the effort into styling, others focused on handling, some were really well built, some had really clever design features, some were just 'meh' all-rounders and others were complete garbage.
It's all very worthy and efficient, having all cars be aerodynamic vaguely-SUV-like electric blobs, and my experience of driving modern EVs is that they're fantastically good appliances for getting from A to B. But the motoring landscape is very, very boring.
2xChevrons said:
I recently saw a news story that Citroen are going to stop making MPVs and was actually a little sad to read it. Not because I particularly have any affection for Citroen MPVs, but because it's yet another bit of variety gone from the roads
On a similar note it's funny to think that when Vauxhall inevitably stop making the Insignia it will be the end of the "traditional" rep mobile Its by no means the most exciting car segment but was hugely important for a long time. I'd I imagine that for a lot of us our interest in cars began with "dad's car" that was probably in that segment.
Peak car was reached in the late 90's / early 2000's, in my opinion. I suppose we should consider ourselves fortunate to be alive at this point in time where you can still buy and run some wonderful older machinery and / or embrace the incredible new tech, whatever tickles your fancy.
I know it's been debated to death but with the ever growing weight of these cars, it'll be interesting to see how car tax plays out in the future.
If the average EV in 10 years time is 2.2 tonnes, the potholes and general road conditions are going to be awful. Some of the figures quoted for new EV's are nearly 3T. That's an incredible amount of weight for a car.
I'd love an EV as a daily but they just aren't affordable yet.
If the average EV in 10 years time is 2.2 tonnes, the potholes and general road conditions are going to be awful. Some of the figures quoted for new EV's are nearly 3T. That's an incredible amount of weight for a car.
I'd love an EV as a daily but they just aren't affordable yet.
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