Aircon re-gas leaked out within 10 days
Discussion
Hi all
Looking for some advice as google giving me conflicting results.
Left my daughters car at a local garage to get the aircon looked at as it’s never worked since she bought it.
They called me back within a couple of hours and said it’s all working, just needed a re-gas, So I collected the car and sure enough it was blowing ice cold. A few days later I was driving the car and while the aircon was working it didn’t seem as cold as before.
I get in the car yesterday afternoon, put the aircon on and it’s just blowing outside temp air again, so guessing the gas has all leaked out.
Do I have any rights to a refund? From what I can gather the system should be pressure tested to check for leaks before being re-gassed.
Would be good to have some ammunition before I call the garage tomorrow.
Thanks.
Looking for some advice as google giving me conflicting results.
Left my daughters car at a local garage to get the aircon looked at as it’s never worked since she bought it.
They called me back within a couple of hours and said it’s all working, just needed a re-gas, So I collected the car and sure enough it was blowing ice cold. A few days later I was driving the car and while the aircon was working it didn’t seem as cold as before.
I get in the car yesterday afternoon, put the aircon on and it’s just blowing outside temp air again, so guessing the gas has all leaked out.
Do I have any rights to a refund? From what I can gather the system should be pressure tested to check for leaks before being re-gassed.
Would be good to have some ammunition before I call the garage tomorrow.
Thanks.
Buzypea said:
Hi all
Looking for some advice as google giving me conflicting results.
Left my daughters car at a local garage to get the aircon looked at as it’s never worked since she bought it.
They called me back within a couple of hours and said it’s all working, just needed a re-gas, So I collected the car and sure enough it was blowing ice cold. A few days later I was driving the car and while the aircon was working it didn’t seem as cold as before.
I get in the car yesterday afternoon, put the aircon on and it’s just blowing outside temp air again, so guessing the gas has all leaked out.
Do I have any rights to a refund? From what I can gather the system should be pressure tested to check for leaks before being re-gassed.
Would be good to have some ammunition before I call the garage tomorrow.
Thanks.
Rather than going in on the defensive, why not try calling them first to see what they say.Looking for some advice as google giving me conflicting results.
Left my daughters car at a local garage to get the aircon looked at as it’s never worked since she bought it.
They called me back within a couple of hours and said it’s all working, just needed a re-gas, So I collected the car and sure enough it was blowing ice cold. A few days later I was driving the car and while the aircon was working it didn’t seem as cold as before.
I get in the car yesterday afternoon, put the aircon on and it’s just blowing outside temp air again, so guessing the gas has all leaked out.
Do I have any rights to a refund? From what I can gather the system should be pressure tested to check for leaks before being re-gassed.
Would be good to have some ammunition before I call the garage tomorrow.
Thanks.
GranpaB said:
Rather than going in on the defensive, why not try calling them first to see what they say.
That’s why I have asked the question here first. When I call tomorrow they might tell me “tough luck mate” and I wouldn’t be any the wiser whether this would be an acceptable response,Most places use a fully automated machine that sucks out any gas that’s in the system, performs a leak test and re-gasses if no leaks found.
This leak test basically pulls a vacuum in the system and monitors the system to see if the vacuum changes over time. If it changes, you have a leak. In an ideal world, you would perform this test over several hours, but time is money, so you may have had an hour at best. I’m not sure if it’s configurable on the machine, but could have been less.
Anyhow, if it’s a small leak, it’s probably not enough to show up on the relatively short leak test that was performed, so in goes the fresh gas. Skip forward a few days and enough gas has leaked out to stop the system working.
If you go back to the same garage, they may possibly just re-gas it again. They may say it was fine when you left, and it now has another problem. It’s possible that you had a stone damage the condenser soon after leaving the garage. Unlikely, but nobody knows for sure.
My advice is to take it to a proper aircon specialist and get them to diagnose the problem. If the aircon wasn’t working when you bought the car, it’s probably been vented for ages. It’ll probably need a new dryer canister at the very least. Probably a new condenser too.
This leak test basically pulls a vacuum in the system and monitors the system to see if the vacuum changes over time. If it changes, you have a leak. In an ideal world, you would perform this test over several hours, but time is money, so you may have had an hour at best. I’m not sure if it’s configurable on the machine, but could have been less.
Anyhow, if it’s a small leak, it’s probably not enough to show up on the relatively short leak test that was performed, so in goes the fresh gas. Skip forward a few days and enough gas has leaked out to stop the system working.
If you go back to the same garage, they may possibly just re-gas it again. They may say it was fine when you left, and it now has another problem. It’s possible that you had a stone damage the condenser soon after leaving the garage. Unlikely, but nobody knows for sure.
My advice is to take it to a proper aircon specialist and get them to diagnose the problem. If the aircon wasn’t working when you bought the car, it’s probably been vented for ages. It’ll probably need a new dryer canister at the very least. Probably a new condenser too.
Xcore said:
The surely fact it needed regassing would suggest there is a leak somewhere to begin with…
The car is 11 years old. If the gas leaked out over that time then fair enough, but not within 10 days of a re-gas.Was hoping someone with experience of aircon systems would be able to confirm if a pressure test was a requirement before refilling, especially as this stuff is supposed to be harmful to the environment.
Standard practice is to regas as instructed by client, with client bearing responsibility for any leaks.
Pressure test is only conducted to make sure the car doesn’t have a dead badger poking through the condenser which will result in immediate venting of gas to atmosphere. A car with a tiny leak that takes weeks to deplete will pass that test easily and hold pressure.
In order to conduct the UV dye test the car has to be regassed and then worked on. If they find a leak using the dye they would need to extract the remaining gas with the vacuum pump to save it. The problem is that the saved gas is offset by all that extra labour so even in this case your invoice for the testing would have been equivalent to what you paid for the suck it and see regas - ergo it’s pointless apart from the saving of the environmental damage caused by an extra charge of gas vented to air.
So, hopefully you can see that if your car has a small leak, you’ve lost that first charge and now you have to have it worked.
However, there is a possibility that there is another fault. Maybe one of the electrical switches has failed, maybe the fan fuse has blown, or maybe the garage made an error and under-gassed it (depending on their procedures this is very easy to do when it is hot outside as all the pressures you’re used to are different.)
In any event, get it in to the garage and see what has actually happened.
Pressure test is only conducted to make sure the car doesn’t have a dead badger poking through the condenser which will result in immediate venting of gas to atmosphere. A car with a tiny leak that takes weeks to deplete will pass that test easily and hold pressure.
In order to conduct the UV dye test the car has to be regassed and then worked on. If they find a leak using the dye they would need to extract the remaining gas with the vacuum pump to save it. The problem is that the saved gas is offset by all that extra labour so even in this case your invoice for the testing would have been equivalent to what you paid for the suck it and see regas - ergo it’s pointless apart from the saving of the environmental damage caused by an extra charge of gas vented to air.
So, hopefully you can see that if your car has a small leak, you’ve lost that first charge and now you have to have it worked.
However, there is a possibility that there is another fault. Maybe one of the electrical switches has failed, maybe the fan fuse has blown, or maybe the garage made an error and under-gassed it (depending on their procedures this is very easy to do when it is hot outside as all the pressures you’re used to are different.)
In any event, get it in to the garage and see what has actually happened.
Edited by Julian Thompson on Sunday 7th August 11:02
GasEngineer said:
Why did you need it regassed in the first place?
If because air con was not working then it could be that the gas had leaked sometime in the previous 11 years.
Isn't that normal though and not indicative of a serious fault? (In the same way you need to top up your oil....doesn't mean it's leaking)If because air con was not working then it could be that the gas had leaked sometime in the previous 11 years.
jm8403 said:
GasEngineer said:
Why did you need it regassed in the first place?
If because air con was not working then it could be that the gas had leaked sometime in the previous 11 years.
Isn't that normal though and not indicative of a serious fault? (In the same way you need to top up your oil....doesn't mean it's leaking)If because air con was not working then it could be that the gas had leaked sometime in the previous 11 years.
Julian Thompson said:
The new R1234YF refrigerant used in cars made from about 2015 has particles smaller than the old R134A gas, too, and so they have a tendency to leak worse and earlier.
Erm... are you:a) sure it is a smaller molecule? R1234YF and HFC-134a
b) that any minor size difference makes a leak worse and earlier at this scale?
vaud said:
Julian Thompson said:
The new R1234YF refrigerant used in cars made from about 2015 has particles smaller than the old R134A gas, too, and so they have a tendency to leak worse and earlier.
Erm... are you:a) sure it is a smaller molecule? R1234YF and HFC-134a
b) that any minor size difference makes a leak worse and earlier at this scale?
However, we are seeing more of the later type in than we would expect given the age, so I was fairly happy with what he told me. Was he actually wrong?
As with a lot of things you get done at the garage you really should look at it as a partnership. Together you will get to the bottom of a problem and share the process of getting it sorted. Simply storming down to the garage and demanding that a fault with the air conditioning be rectified because simply re-gassing it didn't work and demanding a free re-gas ect... naa.
I used to run a workshop and customers who act like they're owed something and it's the fault of the garage owner that their car is broken would be encouraged to shop elsewhere. i.e. not providing quick appointments, charging high prices, not always answering the phone ect...
There is a fault with the system, possibly a leak, possibly something else. If you can work 'with' the garage to get to the bottom of the problem and make sure you're not expecting them to work for free then this will be your best approach.
You can do a quick pressure test to see if everything has leaked out by quickly pushing the valve on the fill port with a screwdriver to see if there's pressure in there.
I used to run a workshop and customers who act like they're owed something and it's the fault of the garage owner that their car is broken would be encouraged to shop elsewhere. i.e. not providing quick appointments, charging high prices, not always answering the phone ect...
There is a fault with the system, possibly a leak, possibly something else. If you can work 'with' the garage to get to the bottom of the problem and make sure you're not expecting them to work for free then this will be your best approach.
You can do a quick pressure test to see if everything has leaked out by quickly pushing the valve on the fill port with a screwdriver to see if there's pressure in there.
jm8403 said:
Julian Thompson said:
Correct. The new R1234YF refrigerant used in cars made from about 2015 has particles smaller than the old R134A gas, too, and so they have a tendency to leak worse and earlier.
It seems the person with profile name 'GasEngineer' deleted his post So to recap - it seems R1234 actually has molecules that are “more complicated” than R134 and the 1234 has a higher “molar mass” (no idea what that is) - ie, we need a real chemist to appear and set the record straight.
And sorry OP, for kinda deviating. You still need your car regassed. Good luck sir.
Buzypea said:
The car is 11 years old. If the gas leaked out over that time then fair enough, but not within 10 days of a re-gas.
Was hoping someone with experience of aircon systems would be able to confirm if a pressure test was a requirement before refilling, especially as this stuff is supposed to be harmful to the environment.
Very similar experience with an older car I bought with non-functioning ACWas hoping someone with experience of aircon systems would be able to confirm if a pressure test was a requirement before refilling, especially as this stuff is supposed to be harmful to the environment.
I used a proper AC repairer.
Re-gas failed within a couple of weeks.
I guess my leak was not large enough to fail their testing.
They had added UV dye and were able to see a leak in the condenser.
New condenser and drier. Free re-gas (their T&Cs). Job done.
Just one of those things.
I also have a car which leaked its gas and I left it after regas did not solve the problem. This was 11 years ago.
I recently had it leak tested and the compressor was the culprit. The compressor was replaced and it worked for a couple of times then leaked again.
I had moved house so could not go back to the same air con specialist. I took it to my local and told them I was convinced it must be the condensor because the leak test and visual inspections showed no sign of anywhere else.
They used a dye and found no leak so regassed. In two days, the gas leaked out again. I took it back to the garage and then could see dye leak in the condensor. I am now currently in the process of getting the condensor replaced, long lead time for parts so waiting.
Hopefully they will not charge me for the regas and only charge for the condensor replacement.
As another poster mentioned, it took time for the leak to manifest itself after the car was used for a while.
I recently had it leak tested and the compressor was the culprit. The compressor was replaced and it worked for a couple of times then leaked again.
I had moved house so could not go back to the same air con specialist. I took it to my local and told them I was convinced it must be the condensor because the leak test and visual inspections showed no sign of anywhere else.
They used a dye and found no leak so regassed. In two days, the gas leaked out again. I took it back to the garage and then could see dye leak in the condensor. I am now currently in the process of getting the condensor replaced, long lead time for parts so waiting.
Hopefully they will not charge me for the regas and only charge for the condensor replacement.
As another poster mentioned, it took time for the leak to manifest itself after the car was used for a while.
I have had cars with aircon for the past 35 years.
Doesn't make me an expert, just a perseon who has seen most faults in his time.
I have had stones through the condenser a few times - £600 a time to fix. Generally happens when the council have thrown 50 tonnes of stone chippings over your route to work. See also cracked headlights.
I have had cars where a regas fixed the problem - twice in about 20 cars.
I have never had a Lexus with faulty aircon, and have done 250.000 miles in LS400s.
I own a 17 year old Nissan where it has always worked throughout my ownership.
I have owned an 8 year old Audi A8 where it didn't work when I bought it and nobody could find where the gas was escaping.
My wife's 22 year old Saab needed re-gassing 6 years ago, and the guy had to insert dye to find the leaky pipe. Pipe replaced and it has worked fine ever since.
My own previous Saab was bought with the aircon not working. "It was fine last time I drove it mate". So I negotiated £50 off and took it to be regassed. After about an hour the nice guy at KwikFit called me over the the car and said "here's why it doesn't work mate" and showed me that the compressor was siezed and had been bypassed, with a shorter aux belt fitted. Lesson learned - never buy a car from Doncaster ** (** insert any rough northern town of your choice here). Thanks to Ebay and a good loacl garage it was only a £250 fix.
On my present 20 year old Saab shed it did work when I bought the car but doesn't now, 3 years later. I am not fixing it until I have fixed everything else that's wrong and decide if I actually want to keep it.
I think what I am saying is:
1. that there are a number of reasons why it could stop working during your ownership, some cheap to fix, some expensive, but if the gas has leaked out then you need to find out where it has leaked from. Dye is (a Welshman and) your best friend here
2. If you want a car with working aircon buy a car with working aircon, NEVER buy a car with non-working aircon.
Doesn't make me an expert, just a perseon who has seen most faults in his time.
I have had stones through the condenser a few times - £600 a time to fix. Generally happens when the council have thrown 50 tonnes of stone chippings over your route to work. See also cracked headlights.
I have had cars where a regas fixed the problem - twice in about 20 cars.
I have never had a Lexus with faulty aircon, and have done 250.000 miles in LS400s.
I own a 17 year old Nissan where it has always worked throughout my ownership.
I have owned an 8 year old Audi A8 where it didn't work when I bought it and nobody could find where the gas was escaping.
My wife's 22 year old Saab needed re-gassing 6 years ago, and the guy had to insert dye to find the leaky pipe. Pipe replaced and it has worked fine ever since.
My own previous Saab was bought with the aircon not working. "It was fine last time I drove it mate". So I negotiated £50 off and took it to be regassed. After about an hour the nice guy at KwikFit called me over the the car and said "here's why it doesn't work mate" and showed me that the compressor was siezed and had been bypassed, with a shorter aux belt fitted. Lesson learned - never buy a car from Doncaster ** (** insert any rough northern town of your choice here). Thanks to Ebay and a good loacl garage it was only a £250 fix.
On my present 20 year old Saab shed it did work when I bought the car but doesn't now, 3 years later. I am not fixing it until I have fixed everything else that's wrong and decide if I actually want to keep it.
I think what I am saying is:
1. that there are a number of reasons why it could stop working during your ownership, some cheap to fix, some expensive, but if the gas has leaked out then you need to find out where it has leaked from. Dye is (a Welshman and) your best friend here
2. If you want a car with working aircon buy a car with working aircon, NEVER buy a car with non-working aircon.
Indeed air con failure can be tricky or not cost effective to fix on old cars.
I was told to use sir con frequently as it lubricates seals and makes the system work better for longer.
My dad doesn’t use his at all and then keeps getting problems when he needs it to work. This happened in most cars apart from an Honda Civic that he had for 20 years from new. Regassed it once and cold as a fridge in the 10 times a year he uses it. Remarkable.
I was told to use sir con frequently as it lubricates seals and makes the system work better for longer.
My dad doesn’t use his at all and then keeps getting problems when he needs it to work. This happened in most cars apart from an Honda Civic that he had for 20 years from new. Regassed it once and cold as a fridge in the 10 times a year he uses it. Remarkable.
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