Possible stupid idea for brake lights - need your help
Discussion
I'd love your opinions, been thinking about this for years.
I'm about as technical as a tortoise on acid, so I want to throw it open to you guys, see if it's even possible.
So. Brake lights on cars. They're just binary, right? Either on or off. So is it possible for manufacturers to change this, make brake lights sequential? That is, a light tap on the brakes would light up one or two LEDs on a ten LED array, but an emergency brake would light them all up. That way those driving behind would get a better idea of the braking they need so as not to collide.
As many of you will guess, this comes from trying to solve the problem of the M25 Mystery Tailbacks, where cars slow for no discernible reason. I guess a bunch of major manufacturers would have to get together to adopt a system like this. I'm not even sure how complex this may be to achieve, but it may help prevent a few rear-end shunts (lookin at YOU, brake-checkers).
Please chime in with your thoughts.
It may just be a stupid idea, but verification from you lot would either kill the idea dead or make me want to take it further.
I'm about as technical as a tortoise on acid, so I want to throw it open to you guys, see if it's even possible.
So. Brake lights on cars. They're just binary, right? Either on or off. So is it possible for manufacturers to change this, make brake lights sequential? That is, a light tap on the brakes would light up one or two LEDs on a ten LED array, but an emergency brake would light them all up. That way those driving behind would get a better idea of the braking they need so as not to collide.
As many of you will guess, this comes from trying to solve the problem of the M25 Mystery Tailbacks, where cars slow for no discernible reason. I guess a bunch of major manufacturers would have to get together to adopt a system like this. I'm not even sure how complex this may be to achieve, but it may help prevent a few rear-end shunts (lookin at YOU, brake-checkers).
Please chime in with your thoughts.
It may just be a stupid idea, but verification from you lot would either kill the idea dead or make me want to take it further.
Wouldnt be at all difficult to do, either a position sensor on the brake pedal, or a accelerometer measuring actual retardation.
Some cars already have two brake lights or activate the hazards when hard braking is sensed.
And new cars have silly sequential led indicators... sequential brake lights would be far more useful, since braking is on a continuous scale, whereas indicators are just on or off.
Whether it would help with phantom queues on the m25 though, probably not.
Some cars already have two brake lights or activate the hazards when hard braking is sensed.
And new cars have silly sequential led indicators... sequential brake lights would be far more useful, since braking is on a continuous scale, whereas indicators are just on or off.
Whether it would help with phantom queues on the m25 though, probably not.
I've thought about brake lights that got brighter with pressure before, but generally came to the conclusion that a harsh on / off is safer.
You've gotta remember that most people on the road are idiots, looking at their phone instead, so you want something harsh and abrupt to catch their attention instead of a progressive / sequential system which could go unnoticed or cause confusion.
You've gotta remember that most people on the road are idiots, looking at their phone instead, so you want something harsh and abrupt to catch their attention instead of a progressive / sequential system which could go unnoticed or cause confusion.
t on track when the hazards are going every time you brake. 
Isn’t there an issue with scale?
For example is the min and max intensity related to the minimum and maximum braking the car can apply or is it, for arguments sake, from a cheap 1l supermini to Bugatti Chiron and the same levels for all cars?
If the former it’s usefulness is surely limited still by how good the brakes on the car in front are and being aware of that. You’ll likely find cars with better brakes would be rear ended more as other drivers misjudge it based on the brake lights.
For example is the min and max intensity related to the minimum and maximum braking the car can apply or is it, for arguments sake, from a cheap 1l supermini to Bugatti Chiron and the same levels for all cars?
If the former it’s usefulness is surely limited still by how good the brakes on the car in front are and being aware of that. You’ll likely find cars with better brakes would be rear ended more as other drivers misjudge it based on the brake lights.
swisstoni said:
In traffic, you just need to know whether the car in front is braking or not.
Some people seem to have trouble with even that level of info, let alone introducing levels of intensity.
This^Some people seem to have trouble with even that level of info, let alone introducing levels of intensity.
As a large proportion of drivers out on the road are either eating/ drinking / peeling the spuds for tea / playing with their genitals or on the phone ect just standard brake lights will do. A good idea in theory though...
brillomaster said:
Wouldnt be at all difficult to do, either a position sensor on the brake pedal, or a accelerometer measuring actual retardation.
Some cars already have two brake lights or activate the hazards when hard braking is sensed.
And new cars have silly sequential led indicators... sequential brake lights would be far more useful, since braking is on a continuous scale, whereas indicators are just on or off.
Whether it would help with phantom queues on the m25 though, probably not.
My experience of the M25 is that it is already full of retards most days of the week, and especially on weekendsSome cars already have two brake lights or activate the hazards when hard braking is sensed.
And new cars have silly sequential led indicators... sequential brake lights would be far more useful, since braking is on a continuous scale, whereas indicators are just on or off.
Whether it would help with phantom queues on the m25 though, probably not.
As said, technically not that hard. Worth noting that modern EVs will illuminate the brake lights in some cases under regen (even when the driver isn't pressing the brake pedal) based on deceleration rate.
I imagine there may be some regulations about this, especially if your concept would involve a lower level of brightness than standard under 'just brushing the pedal' braking in order to alleviate the 'standing wave' traffic jams on busy motorways.
I think probably from where we are now, the more promising hope for this is that cars will increasingly come with active cruise control as standard, and that these systems will improve to the point where they 'damp out' rather than amplify these waves of braking, making it a thing of the past. Those who choose to keep driving older cars will hopefully (a) be a minority and (b) be more attentive to the task of driving, leaving a large gap and using it as a buffer to smooth out fluctuations in traffic.
IIRC there's something similar already available on the newer (post 2015) BMWs.
You can change the intensity and pattern based on the force applied to the brake pedal.
It can be all sections (flashing or pulsing on emergency braking); section 1+2 then 3; or section 1 then 2+3.
(haven't got one, so only going by the greyed-out options for my that are listed in Bimmercode)
You can change the intensity and pattern based on the force applied to the brake pedal.
It can be all sections (flashing or pulsing on emergency braking); section 1+2 then 3; or section 1 then 2+3.
(haven't got one, so only going by the greyed-out options for my that are listed in Bimmercode)
samoht said:
Those who choose to keep driving older cars will hopefully (a) be a minority and (b) be more attentive to the task of driving, leaving a large gap and using it as a buffer to smooth out fluctuations in traffic.
Why would you want old cars to be a minority, they'll still be many tens of thousands of old cars on the road and as for attentive driving it doesn't matter how technically advanced a car is its essential to be alert as to whats going on around you, relying on electronics is a very bad idea..Draxindustries1 said:
Why would you want old cars to be a minority, they'll still be many tens of thousands of old cars on the road and as for attentive driving it doesn't matter how technically advanced a car is its essential to be alert as to whats going on around you, relying on electronics is a very bad idea..
Sorry, I just meant that if the solution to the phantom traffic jam problem is to come from ACC, then it'll only work once ~90% of the cars on the road are new enough have it and it works well enough that most drivers choose to use it.In terms of essential to be alert, I think the fact we have this problem on motorways is evidence that the average driver isn't looking and planning far enough ahead to smooth out these waves, but is instead amplifying them. So something new will be needed to solve it.
We can't change the drivers, so if everyone keeps driving their old cars, how else could the issue ever be solved?
I have nothing against old cars per se, I was trying to say that we need some conjunction of the average inattentive driver upgrading to a newer car with good ACC, and the older cars being driven by people who care and pay attention and smooth out the flow fluctuations manually using driving skill.
PsychoTeapot said:
I'd love your opinions, been thinking about this for years.
I'm about as technical as a tortoise on acid, so I want to throw it open to you guys, see if it's even possible.
So. Brake lights on cars. They're just binary, right? Either on or off. So is it possible for manufacturers to change this, make brake lights sequential? That is, a light tap on the brakes would light up one or two LEDs on a ten LED array, but an emergency brake would light them all up. That way those driving behind would get a better idea of the braking they need so as not to collide.
As many of you will guess, this comes from trying to solve the problem of the M25 Mystery Tailbacks, where cars slow for no discernible reason. I guess a bunch of major manufacturers would have to get together to adopt a system like this. I'm not even sure how complex this may be to achieve, but it may help prevent a few rear-end shunts (lookin at YOU, brake-checkers).
Please chime in with your thoughts.
It may just be a stupid idea, but verification from you lot would either kill the idea dead or make me want to take it further.
Non starter. If you want to help make the roads safer, why not get involved with V2X (from 2027, Euro NCAP will only give a 5 star rating if the car has V2X capability fitted)?I'm about as technical as a tortoise on acid, so I want to throw it open to you guys, see if it's even possible.
So. Brake lights on cars. They're just binary, right? Either on or off. So is it possible for manufacturers to change this, make brake lights sequential? That is, a light tap on the brakes would light up one or two LEDs on a ten LED array, but an emergency brake would light them all up. That way those driving behind would get a better idea of the braking they need so as not to collide.
As many of you will guess, this comes from trying to solve the problem of the M25 Mystery Tailbacks, where cars slow for no discernible reason. I guess a bunch of major manufacturers would have to get together to adopt a system like this. I'm not even sure how complex this may be to achieve, but it may help prevent a few rear-end shunts (lookin at YOU, brake-checkers).
Please chime in with your thoughts.
It may just be a stupid idea, but verification from you lot would either kill the idea dead or make me want to take it further.
"But there is another technology which AASHTO, an association which represents highway and transportations departments across the United States, believes can reduce or mitigate the impact of up to 80% of collisions and is much closer to breaking through and that is vehicle-to-everything (V2X).
This enables a vehicle to talk with others (vehicle-to-vehicle: V2V), infrastructure (vehicle-to-infrastructure: V2I) and vulnerable road users (vehicle-to-pedestrian: V2P), and it provides drivers with real-time information about what is happening in the world around them.
The technology would allow the information to be displayed in the vehicle cabin for the driver to see, meaning they could be alerted to potential hazards around them which they cannot see.
'You could be in your car behind a bus and unable to see what is happening in front of it,' says Francis McKinney, senior project delivery lead at Zenzic.
'If there was a vehicle braking heavily ahead of that bus, wouldn’t it be good to have advance warning of it to give you more time to react?'
Other safety use cases could be alerting drivers about cyclists in their vehicle’s blindspots or informing them of a collision or lane closure on the road ahead.
'Different places will have different use case needs, so we will probably see different things happen in different parts of the country,' says Andy Chappell, senior programme manager at Commsignia."
Source: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/futur...
Plus, you can buy a VW Golf today that has Car2X fitted..
"Independent safety experts are full of praise for Volkswagen’s Car2X technology. German Automotive Association ADAC tested it at its premises in the Bavarian town of Penzing.
For this purpose, it sent the new Golf into eight typical hazardous situations in which a driver, without support, would not be able to react at all, or would only be able to react at a dangerously late stage.
One example was – apart from the emergency services vehicle scenario – a broken down car at the side of the road positioned behind a tight corner.
Thanks to Wi-Fi p the new Golf identified it eleven seconds prior to the potential impact – at a speed of 100 km/h and from a distance of around 300 metres."
Source: https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/stories/car...
The Ogle Aston Martin had sequential brake lights back in the 70's.
https://www.classicmobilia.com/classic-car-sourcin...
https://www.classicmobilia.com/classic-car-sourcin...
mmm-five said:
IIRC there's something similar already available on the newer (post 2015) BMWs.
You can change the intensity and pattern based on the force applied to the brake pedal.
It can be all sections (flashing or pulsing on emergency braking); section 1+2 then 3; or section 1 then 2+3.
(haven't got one, so only going by the greyed-out options for my that are listed in Bimmercode)
Yeah, I thought Audi had done something along these lines as well.You can change the intensity and pattern based on the force applied to the brake pedal.
It can be all sections (flashing or pulsing on emergency braking); section 1+2 then 3; or section 1 then 2+3.
(haven't got one, so only going by the greyed-out options for my that are listed in Bimmercode)
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff