Driving in Germany - Observations
Discussion
Firstly, what a breath of fresh air. It actually feels like they have put some effort into their road network and subsequent rules and regulations surrounding it. I've just spend a couple of weeks over there with the family and:
1) Unrestricted autobahns - Obviously the biggest interest to any petrolhead. As soon as the unrestricted sign appears, everyone gets on it and away you go. I found myself in a stream of cars cruising at anywhere between 100 and 130mph on these sections and it just felt liberating. You have to be on the ball as slower traffic can pull out. As well as this there are plenty of speed restrictions thrown in slowing everyone down to 60mph or so. On the contrary though, this keeps everyone alert and you can tell people are concentrating a lot more than here in the UK.
2) Villages / Towns - Strict limits some as low as 30kmh but I never once saw anyone breaking them!
3) General driving - standards are much higher than over here. Coming up behind slower moving traffic, people do their best to make it easier for you to overtake. It's very normalised over there and I never experienced anyone trying to block or impede progress. I also did the same when people were trying to move quicker than me. It felt as if everyone was in it together as opposed to being at war. I drove around 1500 miles over there and not once did I find myself angry at anyone. 10 minutes over here and it was all middle lane hogging, dawdling and general lack of awareness.
After that experience it just made me sad that our driving standards are poles apart. I've driven there before and a few other European countries but am by no means experienced. I'd love to hear other peoples views who have driven over there - maybe I was just lucky but having covered such a distance I'm not so sure!
1) Unrestricted autobahns - Obviously the biggest interest to any petrolhead. As soon as the unrestricted sign appears, everyone gets on it and away you go. I found myself in a stream of cars cruising at anywhere between 100 and 130mph on these sections and it just felt liberating. You have to be on the ball as slower traffic can pull out. As well as this there are plenty of speed restrictions thrown in slowing everyone down to 60mph or so. On the contrary though, this keeps everyone alert and you can tell people are concentrating a lot more than here in the UK.
2) Villages / Towns - Strict limits some as low as 30kmh but I never once saw anyone breaking them!
3) General driving - standards are much higher than over here. Coming up behind slower moving traffic, people do their best to make it easier for you to overtake. It's very normalised over there and I never experienced anyone trying to block or impede progress. I also did the same when people were trying to move quicker than me. It felt as if everyone was in it together as opposed to being at war. I drove around 1500 miles over there and not once did I find myself angry at anyone. 10 minutes over here and it was all middle lane hogging, dawdling and general lack of awareness.
After that experience it just made me sad that our driving standards are poles apart. I've driven there before and a few other European countries but am by no means experienced. I'd love to hear other peoples views who have driven over there - maybe I was just lucky but having covered such a distance I'm not so sure!
Yes my observations are similar to yours. Night and day compared to the UK. I can't say the same thing about Belgium though. France was somewhere between the 2 but still massively better than the UK.
Having said that, we have a higher density of traffic which partly explains some of the issue.
The other thing that surprised me though was how tight many of the motorway slip road first corners were in terms of radius, including on the unrestricted sections. A little calibration was needed on my part!
Having said that, we have a higher density of traffic which partly explains some of the issue.
The other thing that surprised me though was how tight many of the motorway slip road first corners were in terms of radius, including on the unrestricted sections. A little calibration was needed on my part!
nickfrog said:
Yes my observations are similar to yours. Night and day compared to the UK. I can't say the same thing about Belgium though. France was somewhere between the 2 but still massively better than the UK.
Having said that, we have a higher density of traffic which partly explains some of the issue.
The other thing that surprised me though was how tight many of the motorway slip road entry corner were in terms of radius, including on the unrestricted sections. A little calibration was needed on my part!
Yup agree with all of this. Having said that, we have a higher density of traffic which partly explains some of the issue.
The other thing that surprised me though was how tight many of the motorway slip road entry corner were in terms of radius, including on the unrestricted sections. A little calibration was needed on my part!
Also to throw Italy in the mix.. absolute mayhem, 1m following at 140kph is not being aggressive it's just called driving and on the A road equivalents, the laws / speed limits don't apply to Ferraris - even through built up bits. People just give room and wave them through with much enthusiasm!
On hand it did seems to just work, but on the other I couldn't help think that if one person get's it wrong then at least 100 of us are going to be caught up in the resulting accident. Not one for the feint hearted.
Thing is... the mixed / disinterested driving style of brits comes together with a laissez faire attitude in many other respects. I'm not sure you can have the autobahn efficiency in this country without turning it into Germany in the first place.
Having said this, I would support a higher limit on motorways in this country given the prevalence of 80 to 90mph driving. It's clearly not an issue given millions of people do it every day where they can.
Having said this, I would support a higher limit on motorways in this country given the prevalence of 80 to 90mph driving. It's clearly not an issue given millions of people do it every day where they can.
The spinner of plates said:
Yup agree with all of this.
Also to throw Italy in the mix.. absolute mayhem, 1m following at 140kph is not being aggressive it's just called driving and on the A road equivalents, the laws / speed limits don't apply to Ferraris - even through built up bits. People just give room and wave them through with much enthusiasm! .
Just driven through France and now in Italy. The French really are very good on the roads.Also to throw Italy in the mix.. absolute mayhem, 1m following at 140kph is not being aggressive it's just called driving and on the A road equivalents, the laws / speed limits don't apply to Ferraris - even through built up bits. People just give room and wave them through with much enthusiasm! .
The Italians…….tutto mentale. Saw at least half a dozen near disasters on a 5 hour drive to Tuscany. Plus MLMs abound.
Then was overtaken by a screaming Lambo through a village. Nice noise though mind.
nickfrog said:
Yes my observations are similar to yours. Night and day compared to the UK. I can't say the same thing about Belgium though. France was somewhere between the 2 but still massively better than the UK.
Having said that, we have a higher density of traffic which partly explains some of the issue.
The other thing that surprised me though was how tight many of the motorway slip road first corners were in terms of radius, including on the unrestricted sections. A little calibration was needed on my part!
(German joke about Belgian drivers) If you fail your driving test three times in Belgium, you're given number plates with red digits on a white background.Having said that, we have a higher density of traffic which partly explains some of the issue.
The other thing that surprised me though was how tight many of the motorway slip road first corners were in terms of radius, including on the unrestricted sections. A little calibration was needed on my part!
The spinner of plates said:
nickfrog said:
Yes my observations are similar to yours. Night and day compared to the UK. I can't say the same thing about Belgium though. France was somewhere between the 2 but still massively better than the UK.
Having said that, we have a higher density of traffic which partly explains some of the issue.
The other thing that surprised me though was how tight many of the motorway slip road entry corner were in terms of radius, including on the unrestricted sections. A little calibration was needed on my part!
Yup agree with all of this. Having said that, we have a higher density of traffic which partly explains some of the issue.
The other thing that surprised me though was how tight many of the motorway slip road entry corner were in terms of radius, including on the unrestricted sections. A little calibration was needed on my part!
Also to throw Italy in the mix.. absolute mayhem, 1m following at 140kph is not being aggressive it's just called driving and on the A road equivalents, the laws / speed limits don't apply to Ferraris - even through built up bits. People just give room and wave them through with much enthusiasm!
On hand it did seems to just work, but on the other I couldn't help think that if one person get's it wrong then at least 100 of us are going to be caught up in the resulting accident. Not one for the feint hearted.
The density of our traffic shouldn't be an excuse for the horrendous behaviour we display to each other on the roads in the UK
While I agree with most of OP's observations, I did find on the autobahn in the fast lane when doing 120mph+ people would come right up behind you insanely close, only a couple of meters off, and start flashing and waving to get past when there was something in front of me and no opportunity to move in. Being in the 760 I had at the time and therefore whenever the lane opened up in front of me I shot off without holding them up unnecessarily for a second. Maybe I was guilty of not being up the back of the car in front of me?
Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
Double Fault said:
The spinner of plates said:
Yup agree with all of this.
Also to throw Italy in the mix.. absolute mayhem, 1m following at 140kph is not being aggressive it's just called driving and on the A road equivalents, the laws / speed limits don't apply to Ferraris - even through built up bits. People just give room and wave them through with much enthusiasm! .
Just driven through France and now in Italy. The French really are very good on the roads.Also to throw Italy in the mix.. absolute mayhem, 1m following at 140kph is not being aggressive it's just called driving and on the A road equivalents, the laws / speed limits don't apply to Ferraris - even through built up bits. People just give room and wave them through with much enthusiasm! .
The Italians…….tutto mentale. Saw at least half a dozen near disasters on a 5 hour drive to Tuscany. Plus MLMs abound.
Then was overtaken by a screaming Lambo through a village. Nice noise though mind.
First time in a busy city I'm in crawling traffic and a car is waiting to emerge from a side road.
I look at the driver, waiting to give a nod to show that I was letting her in but she never even turned her head and just drove out into the stream of traffic, forcing a gap.
Another time I'm doing about 80mph passing a truck and some old codger in a little fiat s
tbox comes up behind me flashing and gesticulating to get out of the way. fking bellends! Agree with most of those observations fully. Every time I get of the train in Folkestone after a trip to Germany the feeling of despair with UK driving standards happens within the first few miles of the M20. God knows what the Germans make of it when they come over here.
Another observation I have noticed is the every German driver is a self appointed policeman. Should one break the law, god forbid, then the amount of flashing, finger wagging and head shaking is amazing.
Another observation I have noticed is the every German driver is a self appointed policeman. Should one break the law, god forbid, then the amount of flashing, finger wagging and head shaking is amazing.
Agree with most of those observations fully. Every time I get of the train in Folkestone after a trip to Germany the feeling of despair with UK driving standards happens within the first few miles of the M20. God knows what the Germans make of it when they come over here.
Another observation I have noticed is the every German driver is a self appointed policeman. Should one break the law, god forbid, then the amount of flashing, finger wagging and head shaking is amazing.
Another observation I have noticed is the every German driver is a self appointed policeman. Should one break the law, god forbid, then the amount of flashing, finger wagging and head shaking is amazing.
Edited by bigmowley on Monday 15th August 14:39
8IKERDAVE said:
<snip>
Coming up behind slower moving traffic, people do their best to make it easier for you to overtake.
All the ones who don't do this are on holiday in the Highlands.Coming up behind slower moving traffic, people do their best to make it easier for you to overtake.
Stereotypically if a vehicle is not using the single track road passing places it'll have german plates.
eein said:
While I agree with most of OP's observations, I did find on the autobahn in the fast lane when doing 120mph+ people would come right up behind you insanely close, only a couple of meters off, and start flashing and waving to get past when there was something in front of me and no opportunity to move in. Being in the 760 I had at the time and therefore whenever the lane opened up in front of me I shot off without holding them up unnecessarily for a second. Maybe I was guilty of not being up the back of the car in front of me?
Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
Are you sure they were flashing and waving?Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
Tailgating in Europe is very normal; it is their sign they want to overtake. Respecting people's personal space in that regard just isn't a thing, and no one takes offence as a result.
I do European trips 3/4 times a year and have never been flashed up, but yes you have readjust to the fact that the way they tailgate would start a mid-motorway brawl in the UK.
eein said:
Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
"Weaponised closing speed" - probably the most unpleasant autobahn behaviour and one that tends to be used without consideration as to whether the car in front is actually able to move over... Having driven to Hungary and back several times in the last few years I'm not overly impressed by the driving behaviours of any one or other of our neighbours. France is pleasant because the tolls are empty and the traffic generally holds to 130kmph; Austria is the same and Germany is an over-trafficed stress-fest. UK lane discipline isn't great, but it's not notably worse than anywhere else - and our roads are notably safe (stats tends to be a lot more telling than individual perception!)
AmyRichardson said:
eein said:
Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
"Weaponised closing speed" - probably the most unpleasant autobahn behaviour and one that tends to be used without consideration as to whether the car in front is actually able to move over... Having driven to Hungary and back several times in the last few years I'm not overly impressed by the driving behaviours of any one or other of our neighbours. France is pleasant because the tolls are empty and the traffic generally holds to 130kmph; Austria is the same and Germany is an over-trafficed stress-fest. UK lane discipline isn't great, but it's not notably worse than anywhere else - and our roads are notably safe (stats tends to be a lot more telling than individual perception!)
My history is over a decade of doing 35-40k a year in the UK and 3-5-k a year in Europe and another decade of 25k uk and 5+ pa in Europe
thelostboy said:
eein said:
While I agree with most of OP's observations, I did find on the autobahn in the fast lane when doing 120mph+ people would come right up behind you insanely close, only a couple of meters off, and start flashing and waving to get past when there was something in front of me and no opportunity to move in. Being in the 760 I had at the time and therefore whenever the lane opened up in front of me I shot off without holding them up unnecessarily for a second. Maybe I was guilty of not being up the back of the car in front of me?
Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
Are you sure they were flashing and waving?Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
Tailgating in Europe is very normal; it is their sign they want to overtake. Respecting people's personal space in that regard just isn't a thing, and no one takes offence as a result.
I do European trips 3/4 times a year and have never been flashed up, but yes you have readjust to the fact that the way they tailgate would start a mid-motorway brawl in the UK.
I don't mind 'nudging' whereby they drop back after a couple of seconds, but this was continuous at 120-140mph cruising. It probably didn't help that I would very gently and slowly drop back a bit more from the car in front of me as you need more space to be able to brake when you're distracted by the person behind you.
I was quite impressed that most of the cars up behind me were mere <2L german saloons/estates. Very few big engine bahn stormers, just regular commuters.
thelostboy said:
eein said:
While I agree with most of OP's observations, I did find on the autobahn in the fast lane when doing 120mph+ people would come right up behind you insanely close, only a couple of meters off, and start flashing and waving to get past when there was something in front of me and no opportunity to move in. Being in the 760 I had at the time and therefore whenever the lane opened up in front of me I shot off without holding them up unnecessarily for a second. Maybe I was guilty of not being up the back of the car in front of me?
Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
Are you sure they were flashing and waving?Nudging up this close used to be fairly common on UK motorways 20 years ago but has become much less common now. So one area I found Germany worse than the UK.
Tailgating in Europe is very normal; it is their sign they want to overtake. Respecting people's personal space in that regard just isn't a thing, and no one takes offence as a result.
I do European trips 3/4 times a year and have never been flashed up, but yes you have readjust to the fact that the way they tailgate would start a mid-motorway brawl in the UK.
king do when you can't move to the right to let them past? I'm in the outside travelling as fast as possible given there is traffic in my lane front of me which I wish to pass, and traffic to my right, and yet the bloke behind thinks I should move out of his way, into a gap which doesn't exist, so he can sit where I am behind the car we both want to pass.Honestly, and I know I shouldn't have let it get to me, but my piss was absolutely boiling at being followed at a distance of mere inches and being flashed. I don't know what they think they're achieving with this behaviour. Pricks need to calm down and back off.
My other observation is that I disgaree with the OP on this thread to an extent about the de-restricted bits and the changing limits. I found it tiring to be swinging from unlimited, to 120kph, to 100kph, to 130kph, to unlimited, to 100pkh...over and over again. Sure, it keeps you focussed, but it really tires you over a long distance as well. I *think* I prefer our flat limit in the UK, although it could be 10 mph higher. I know, not a very PH attitude, I'm sure the majority on here think we should all be going 200mph with our hair on fire at all times. Well, I don't for several reasons, one of which is stated above and the other is fuel consumption. I'm happy at 70-80mph, I have nothing so urgent at the other end of my journeys that I need to be going any faster than that.
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