Motoring journalist clichés - which ones were true?
Discussion
1. Did the Golf ever stop being fat after the MK2
2. Does every turbocharged car have 'turbolag' worth grading in a review
3. Is every 15 year old Mercedes built like a tank regardless to the current year
4. Can any low budget car really do 50-70 faster than a Ferrari in a fair test
5. Do all front wheel drive cars have torque-steer
6. Is it still a surprise that luxury cars depreciate a lot as they age
7. Was every single British Leyland car badly made because of strikes
8. Does the Ford Fiesta really handle best in its class every time there's a new one
9. Japanese reliability
10. Not many car enthusiasts know about group B rally cars so we have to hear it constantly
2. Does every turbocharged car have 'turbolag' worth grading in a review
3. Is every 15 year old Mercedes built like a tank regardless to the current year
4. Can any low budget car really do 50-70 faster than a Ferrari in a fair test
5. Do all front wheel drive cars have torque-steer
6. Is it still a surprise that luxury cars depreciate a lot as they age
7. Was every single British Leyland car badly made because of strikes
8. Does the Ford Fiesta really handle best in its class every time there's a new one
9. Japanese reliability
10. Not many car enthusiasts know about group B rally cars so we have to hear it constantly
1. Did the Golf ever stop being fat after the MK2
Yes, the Mk5 was the next 'good' version, widely praised esp the GTi
2. Does every turbocharged car have 'turbolag' worth grading in a review
Yes, even with sequential turbos there's a time element to the throttle response which can be considered good or bad, but is different to an n/a engine.
3. Is every 15 year old Mercedes built like a tank regardless to the current year
No, any fule no that they made a business decision to switch from building to a standard to building to a price in the mid-90s.
4. Can any low budget car really do 50-70 faster than a Ferrari in a fair test
Yes, given freedom to pick the slowest Ferrari ever made, you could find quite a few affordable turbocharged cars that would beat it over specific increments. If restricted to current Ferraris, no.
5. Do all front wheel drive cars have torque-steer
No, apparently cured by more sophisticated front suspension that separates the steering axis from the suspension (under various trademarks Perfo-hub, Revo-knuckle etc)
6. Is it still a surprise that luxury cars depreciate a lot as they age
No, since cars get more luxurious and less exciting every year, luxury ages poorly whereas excitement ages well. The most rational long-term purchase is usually the most exciting.
7. Was every single British Leyland car badly made because of strikes
Not necessarily due to strikes, but I'm not sure BL ever really had their factories operating in a high quality manner
8. Does the Ford Fiesta really handle best in its class every time there's a new one
Few manufacturers compete for handling in the B-segment; Ford has done since Richard Parry-Jones, so probably yes since his time
9. Japanese reliability
To a first approximation remains true. The commonest durability issues with Japanese cars arise due to different local conditions here; the British climate induces rust to an extent that simply doesn't happen in Japan, and that many Japanese cars aren't so well protected against, and the Japanese never took to diesel engines, so their diesel engines are generally bought-in and less satisfactory. There is a hierarchy of quality among the Japanese companies I think. However the build quality of Lexus remains peerless.
10. Not many car enthusiasts know about group B rally cars so we have to hear it constantly
It was a short-lived period, so is probably better known among (a) a certain age group and (b) European petrolheads. If writing for a wider audience including Americans, who haven't really 'got' rallying, it's probably unwise to assume everyone is familiar.
Yes, the Mk5 was the next 'good' version, widely praised esp the GTi
2. Does every turbocharged car have 'turbolag' worth grading in a review
Yes, even with sequential turbos there's a time element to the throttle response which can be considered good or bad, but is different to an n/a engine.
3. Is every 15 year old Mercedes built like a tank regardless to the current year
No, any fule no that they made a business decision to switch from building to a standard to building to a price in the mid-90s.
4. Can any low budget car really do 50-70 faster than a Ferrari in a fair test
Yes, given freedom to pick the slowest Ferrari ever made, you could find quite a few affordable turbocharged cars that would beat it over specific increments. If restricted to current Ferraris, no.
5. Do all front wheel drive cars have torque-steer
No, apparently cured by more sophisticated front suspension that separates the steering axis from the suspension (under various trademarks Perfo-hub, Revo-knuckle etc)
6. Is it still a surprise that luxury cars depreciate a lot as they age
No, since cars get more luxurious and less exciting every year, luxury ages poorly whereas excitement ages well. The most rational long-term purchase is usually the most exciting.
7. Was every single British Leyland car badly made because of strikes
Not necessarily due to strikes, but I'm not sure BL ever really had their factories operating in a high quality manner
8. Does the Ford Fiesta really handle best in its class every time there's a new one
Few manufacturers compete for handling in the B-segment; Ford has done since Richard Parry-Jones, so probably yes since his time
9. Japanese reliability
To a first approximation remains true. The commonest durability issues with Japanese cars arise due to different local conditions here; the British climate induces rust to an extent that simply doesn't happen in Japan, and that many Japanese cars aren't so well protected against, and the Japanese never took to diesel engines, so their diesel engines are generally bought-in and less satisfactory. There is a hierarchy of quality among the Japanese companies I think. However the build quality of Lexus remains peerless.
10. Not many car enthusiasts know about group B rally cars so we have to hear it constantly
It was a short-lived period, so is probably better known among (a) a certain age group and (b) European petrolheads. If writing for a wider audience including Americans, who haven't really 'got' rallying, it's probably unwise to assume everyone is familiar.
Jon556 said:
Nobody can nail down the “last of the real true over-engineered, hewn from granite, solid Mercedes”
Some say the W140 but I saw someone refer to the W126. There should be a medical like paper on the subject.
The economic and exchange-rate turbulence from 1992 seems to have been the trigger. Each model line went through the transition at a different point, but broadly, W201, W124 and W140 solid, W203, W210 and W220 cost-reduced. The W202 was transitional and had some cost reductions, but pre-dated most of them - when it launched, journalists noted the first signs, I believe the oil pressure gauge had been replaced with a low pressure light.Some say the W140 but I saw someone refer to the W126. There should be a medical like paper on the subject.
The W140 was the closest to cost-no-object with the new V12, double glazing etc etc. I really don't believe any costs were cut on that car. If some people preferred the subjective feel of the W126 I suspect that was due to other factors around changing materials and processes, but not Merc cheaping out.
carl_w said:
Or "rifle bolt" which seems to get more use describing gear changes than actual rifle bolts
I always assume anyone using that phrase has never actually fired a bolt-action rifle. Especially one well-known TV motoring presenter who was very fond of the phrase "gear-change like a Winchester rifle!" which, unless I'm very much mistaken, was an under-hand lever-action gun with no resemblance to any gearchange in automotive history. The only gearchange where the 'rifle bolt' cliche is even vaguely appropriate is on a Citroen 2CV or similar, with the push/pull dog-leg pattern.Similarly, I can only assume that any journo who describes a classic Mini, or any other car, as 'handling like a go-kart' has never driven a kart. Not only do Minis not drive like go-karts, but you would not want any road car to drive or handle remotely like a kart in any case - comparing any car to a rear-wheel drive skid with no suspension, no differential, no caster geometry and very little grip should be a profound criticism!
Mercedes are my bête noire. They were quite good in the sixties and seventies - certainly superbly engineered, but even then they could be somewhat rot prone. Since then, they cannot make anything that Toyota can't build much, much better. The W140 era stuff brought us electrical gremlins and premature rust, biodegradable engine looms and crap like that. The much vaunted W124? Peugeot made better cars back then. The 2000's era stuff is dubious - rotten subframes, rusty wings, M271 timing chains, M272 balance shafts etc. As for eight year old E Classes and subframe rot.....Jesus!
The 190E was a good effort though, and the five cylinder diesels legendary. I've never driven a Merc I liked either. BMW just run rings around them.
A very average product with excellent marketing.
The 190E was a good effort though, and the five cylinder diesels legendary. I've never driven a Merc I liked either. BMW just run rings around them.
A very average product with excellent marketing.
Truckosaurus said:
I once thought 'scuttle shake' was a journo cliche until I drive a colleague's SAAB 900 convertible (the first of the GM cars). I've seen less wobbly jellies.
Same! After driving a good number and variety of convertibles, old and new, I thought scuttle-shake was at worst something that could be detected but which was irrelevant to how good or pleasant a car was to drive (and had become one of those checklist items that road testers just have to mention, like turbo lag or engines that 'quickly settle to a smooth idle'). Or was mostly a phenomenon only of concern to development engineers that would need a deflection rig, vibration meters and laser beams to actually measure accurately.Then in the space of three days I drove a Saab 900NG convertible and an Alfa Romeo Spider Series 2, both of which had not only literal and clearly discernable scuttle shake, but at times it was actually visible by watching the relative movement between the door frame and the screen surround. The Alfa's bonnet burst open going along an especially bumpy road in rural Cambridgeshire while the Saab had the unsettling sense of the body and the wheels being attached to each other by elastic bands.
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