Remapping and Insurance

[anonymous-user]

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 06 September 2022 at 17:01

[GranpaB]

DS96 said:

Hi, would've posted this to the speed, plod and the law section but this is a new account and I'm unable to do that for a few weeks yet.

Long story short, I've had my 2019 BMW 218D remapped by Ecotune in Scotland which increased the power from 150 bhp to 221bhp and the torque from 239 lb/ft to 364 lb/ft. Very meaty increases.

I had initially been quoted a power increase of up to 190 bhp from Ecotune, so I notified my insurance of the remap and paid the small fee to add this to my policy - however the power gains were much more substantial than the max 25% increase in power that Admiral insurance allow.

Stupid question - should I stay with Admiral insurance despite the fact that they only think my cars power has increased 25% (when its actually increased 47%) or should I come clean, cancel the policy and try find someone else to cover my car?

If I don't announce the actual power gains to Admiral, and god forbid ended up causing a fatal crash - would the police/my insurance be able to check the power of the vehicle if it was seized?

Thanks for all replies

Why wouldn't you notify them of the extra power increase?

[vaud]

Alternatively go back to Ecotune and ask them to correct the map back to what you expected and were quoted instead of the max they could get?

[wpa1975]

vaud said:

Alternatively go back to Ecotune and ask them to correct the map back to what you expected and were quoted instead of the max they could get?

^^^This or insure it properly, never worth the risk

[Helical]

I think its incredibly unlikely the police or insurance company would put your car on rolling road to measure its power output

[Helical]

However you have just old the internet of your actual power figures, so they perhaps wouldn't need to

[bigandclever]

GranpaB said:

DS96 said:

Hi, would've posted this to the speed, plod and the law section but this is a new account and I'm unable to do that for a few weeks yet.

Long story short, I've had my 2019 BMW 218D remapped by Ecotune in Scotland which increased the power from 150 bhp to 221bhp and the torque from 239 lb/ft to 364 lb/ft. Very meaty increases.

I had initially been quoted a power increase of up to 190 bhp from Ecotune, so I notified my insurance of the remap and paid the small fee to add this to my policy - however the power gains were much more substantial than the max 25% increase in power that Admiral insurance allow.

Stupid question - should I stay with Admiral insurance despite the fact that they only think my cars power has increased 25% (when its actually increased 47%) or should I come clean, cancel the policy and try find someone else to cover my car?

If I don't announce the actual power gains to Admiral, and god forbid ended up causing a fatal crash - would the police/my insurance be able to check the power of the vehicle if it was seized?

Thanks for all replies

Why wouldn't you notify them of the extra power increase?

Probably because "the power gains were much more substantial than the max 25% increase in power that Admiral insurance allow" they'll tell him they won't insure him.

[donkmeister]

DS96 said:

Long story short, I've had my 2019 BMW 218D remapped by Ecotune in Scotland which increased the power from 150 bhp to 221bhp and the torque from 239 lb/ft to 364 lb/ft. Very meaty increases.

I had initially been quoted a power increase of up to 190 bhp from Ecotune, so I notified my insurance of the remap and paid the small fee to add this to my policy - however the power gains were much more substantial than the max 25% increase in power that Admiral insurance allow.

A dyno run by the tuner who did your remap is not a guarantee of an accurate measure of what your car is outputting before or after the dyno run...

If the insurers have asked for a dyno plot or similar then go back to ecotune and explain what you need the chart to show, and not to inflate the transmission loss factor like they did before you had paid them

If the insurers haven't asked, stick with whatever the increase you paid for was and keep the invoice in case it ever comes into question (it won't).

[Antony Moxey]

Tell your insurance. If they won't cover an increase that large then find someone else who will. I had to do it when Direct Line wouldn't cover mine so I switched to Flux who were buttons more expensive. If you can't afford the premium increase then maybe you shouldn't have got the remap...

[alscar]

If you gave Admiral the exact numbers then at the very least you need to now inform them that the numbers now are higher.
If they didn’t ask for the specific numbers ie they accepted it’s just been remapped then a bit grey.
Whilst it’s probably very very unlikely in the event of something happening necessitating you claiming that they would rolling road test it ,do you want to take that chance ?

[Ninja59]

Helical said:

I think its incredibly unlikely the police or insurance company would put your car on rolling road to measure its power output

They don't need to, there is now a thread on a public forum with all information. More so if correct certain users of this forum may or equally may not work for certain insurers in specific departments that may be interested in fraud.

Equally this is (as some have said working in certain insurers) it is usually a gold mine of information on social media and other sources on the internet.

Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 6th September 16:29

[sxmwht]

Ninja59 said:

They don't need to, there is now a thread on a public forum with all information.

As the same poster immediately said in the following post.

[Decky_Q]

I was pretty sure that the BMW 18d engines were the PSA 2.0 Hdi engine. I know these engines well but not in BMWs. The highest factory output from one is the ford mondeo at 190ps, citroen claim a max of 187ps. From experience they can take 200 but beyond this it melts the piston crown with a hot spot due to remap increasing the injector duration and absolute manifold pressure allowed, resulting in alot of heat at higher rpm.

I may be wrong, but if this is the case I think you will have issues with one turned up to 220ps. The 150/163ps version is detuned for emissions (non adblue models) so that can be brought up to 200ps without issue as it's the same injectors, fuel pump and turbo as the more powerful cars, but beyond that it's not known for being a good idea.

Edited by Decky_Q on Tuesday 6th September 16:33

[Canon_Fodder]

I has a 218d 'F22' coupe and it was absolutely desperate untuned - slow and rough - so I sympathise with the OP for wanting some more beanage

It's the B47 engine in BMW parlance

[Dannbodge]

When I was with Admiral they quoted me an additional £3 for a remap taking my power from 230bhp to 300bhp.

They asked for the before and after power figure rather than the %.

Personally I'd just leave it as 25%, as long as it's insured as having a remap. It's not like they'd dyno it if it crashed etc.

[Decky_Q]

For anyone reading this thread I went and checked up, I was incorrect the psa engines arent and never were used in any cars with a bmw badge on it. It was the 1.6Hdi, and they were co developed with BMW and used in the MINI only. These have also been replaced by a BMW in house dies engine that runs a timing chain rather than belts. So right now all diesel engines in BMW products are their own.

The 1.6Thp petrol engine is still in use by both, but likely to be replaced soon (or already has) in MINIs.

[Durzel]

Would it not be a struggle to get insurance with most places if you're approaching them with a car that has 47% more BHP than expected? I would've thought it wouldn't be the BHP itself that would be a problem, i.e. you could insure a different car with an OEM power output of that or more, but the fact that the modification is so extreme?

[Wills2]

Many claim engines are underrated by the factory in the first place so defining the base line for the increase is hard to do plus it's very difficult to get an accurate power figure unless you take the engine out and put in on a dyno at MIRA. So informing the insurance company that it has had a remap is all you can actually do, you don't actually know exactly how much more power it has as you don't know the exact figure it started with and a RR is subject to guess work anyway.

You're not expected to be an expert just honest to the best of your knowledge.

[Nigel_O]

Durzel said:

Would it not be a struggle to get insurance with most places if you're approaching them with a car that has 47% more BHP than expected? I would've thought it wouldn't be the BHP itself that would be a problem, i.e. you could insure a different car with an OEM power output of that or more, but the fact that the modification is so extreme?

Definitely not - when I went on a modding spree, I ended up with way over double the original power (122% increase, to be exact) but still found insurance easy to get. Just need to move away from mainstream insurers and talk to specialist brokers.

[bigandclever]

DS96 said:

I have deleted my initial message from this topic.

Eff why aye, that doesn’t help if your post has been quoted.