Build Quality last 10 years

[Lester H]

Immediate apologies to save other posters telling me that this has been covered. Since,say,2010 has there been any significant difference in build quality in 'everyday' cars? The question excludes posh and exotic stuff. ( When I ask my mechanic and body shop owner they say that they are all the same or all as bad.)

[konster296]

It’s hard to say as in some areas there’s been a big improvement with normal stuff like the jump in build quality from a MK6 Golf to a MK7.5 Golf, but there’s also been a decline with Mercedes (W204-205).
I don’t really know tbh

[Baldchap]

I recently read that reliability data from owners and leasing companies show that an average reliability car today would have topped the reliability charts in the mid noughties.

Now, obviously there are lies, damn lies and statistics, but anecdotally we go through a lot of new cars in our house and I can't remember the last time we had a fault with any of them.

[Fusion777]

konster296 said:

It’s hard to say as in some areas there’s been a big improvement with normal stuff like the jump in build quality from a MK6 Golf to a MK7.5 Golf

Really? Always thought the MK6 Golf was well screwed together- decent materials, etc.

[FA57REN]

Is make a distinction between "build quality", how well it's assembled, versus "engineering quality", how well it's designed to perform and last under use.

Build quality should be consistent these days with robotic assembly.

However engineering quality may be declining as cars are increasingly 'rented' on four-year finance plans and then returned to upgrade to the facelifted new version. So where's the benefit in engineering for longer life?

[randlemarcus]

I would have thought the ladders of better build process and robotic welding and painting are about evenly matched with the snakes of the engineering parts to last to the end of warranty.

[konster296]

Fusion777 said:

Really? Always thought the MK6 Golf was well screwed together- decent materials, etc.

Yeah I agree. it’s a decent solid car even by today’s standards, but personally I think the MK7.5 is a step above in terms of perceived quality.

[Draxindustries1]

With everyday cars like BMW and Merc I think personally there's been a real downturn in paint finish with many metallic finishes showing a lot of orange peel, like the lacquer has been applied at too low a pressure. It's not every car and not all colours seem affected. It's the black/ dark grey/ blues which seem the worst.
Ford seem to have improved their paint and fit and finish quite considerably over the past few years.
Premium stuff like Porsche / Ferrari have always been consistent with well finished paint.
Others like Hyundai and Kia have come a very long way in the past 10 years. Therye very sure of their product too with up to 7 years warranty which counts for a lot..

[Triumph Man]

Bmw E60 to F10 was supposed to have been a leap in quality.

[Olivera]

konster296 said:

Yeah I agree. it’s a decent solid car even by today’s standards, but personally I think the MK7.5 is a step above in terms of perceived quality.

The build quality on my Mk 7.5 GTI was impeccable. Not a single reliability issue or even rattle in 3-4 years. Refinement was truly excellent.

Unfortunately by all accounts it went to st with a myriad of electrical and infotainment issues in the Mk 8

[Dapster]

I had a 2010 Ford S Max as the family hack. Great car but built like a conflake box. Nothing broke or fell off, but it just felt brittle and built as cheaply as possible. Replaced it with a 2016 new shape S Max. Not quite as brilliant a drive but far, far better built. More solid, better quality materials, soft touches galore, soft interior lighting, different league.

My dad had a new W123 pov spec Mercedes 200 back in the late 80's - I don't I have experienced anything quite as well put together as that. Everything about it was designed and built to last 1m miles. No lazy plastics or cheap moulding - even the warning triangle mounted on the inside of the boot lid was a two handed job to lift out. The tools, which were never, ever used, were chrome plated and beautifully finished.

Edited by Dapster on Monday 26th September 20:27

[paradigital]

Triumph Man said:

Bmw E60 to F10 was supposed to have been a leap in quality.

But was that simply a return to form?

E39 to early E60 was a massive let-down in a lot of ways (ignoring the styling that jarred at the time).

The E39 was superb in almost every way, as was the F10/11.

[swisstoni]

If any modern cars are still showing body rust as was common decades ago then they really should be outed.

Absolutely no excuse for it.

[Dingu]

FA57REN said:

Is make a distinction between "build quality", how well it's assembled, versus "engineering quality", how well it's designed to perform and last under use.

Build quality should be consistent these days with robotic assembly.

However engineering quality may be declining as cars are increasingly 'rented' on four-year finance plans and then returned to upgrade to the facelifted new version. So where's the benefit in engineering for longer life?

Presumably because rather than crushing them on their return the manufacturer or finance company sell them on.

[carlove]

I was amazed at the poor quality of an A Class hire car (current model), interior looked really nice, but everything creaked, things felt like they’d come off in your hands. Was generally unimpressed by the A180, it was just a bit crap, but that’s for a different thread.

My Astra felt much better put together, it’s a 2017 and now on 116k miles, everything is still tight as it was new, no creaks, the only sign it’s a high mileage car is worn leather on the steering wheel (which I think was from hand sanitiser use during Covid) and a very small tear on the armrest.

I would be surprised if the A Class feels anywhere near as good at 100k+ miles. My Dad had an E Class when he died (2017 model) and I remember it being well put together but not as good as the 2015 one he had before.

[Lester H]

FA57REN said:

Is make a distinction between "build quality", how well it's assembled, versus "engineering quality", how well it's designed to perform and last under use.

Build quality should be consistent these days with robotic assembly.

However engineering quality may be declining as cars are increasingly 'rented' on four-year finance plans and then returned to upgrade to the facelifted new version. So where's the benefit in engineering for longer life?

OP here. I was thinking of durability and finish, the latter meaning how well the doors shut, whether a rear parcel shelf is flimsy or robust, etc. I can see beyond plastic chrome and bling ( oh, dear) Not really sure I would blame the decline in renting cars as punters had hire purchase before then.

[Pica-Pica]

randlemarcus said:

I would have thought the ladders of better build process and robotic welding and painting are about evenly matched with the snakes of the engineering parts to last to the end of warranty.

Robotic and automated build have been around for many decades.
Cars are not ‘engineered to just last to the end of warranty’. Typically major parts are six-sigma’d to last beyond 250,000 kilometres.

[Rich Boy Spanner]

I have a 15 year old Toyota Corolla Verso diesel that feels no older than my 4 year old Octavia 1.5 Tsi, and has less creaks and unlike the Octavia doesn't use a litre of stupidly expensive 0W-20 every 4.5K miles.

[clockworks]

paradigital said:

Triumph Man said:

Bmw E60 to F10 was supposed to have been a leap in quality.

But was that simply a return to form?

E39 to early E60 was a massive let-down in a lot of ways (ignoring the styling that jarred at the time).

The E39 was superb in almost every way, as was the F10/11.

Rust seems to be an issue with E39s. A friend has a very late E39 530i with less than 100k on the clock. Rust started appearing on body panels a few years ago. This year, MOT failure for rust around the jacking points.

Various problems with the cooling system, warped and leaking valve cover, random gearbox errors, water leaks into rear footwells.

It still drives nicely though.

[Ninja59]

Triumph Man said:

Bmw E60 to F10 was supposed to have been a leap in quality.

Hmm having been an F series owner, in some parts possibly, other parts not.

The F series dumped the aluminium chassis elements of the E, gained more weight as a result and possibly introduced numerous more hidden issues, depending on engine choice?