RE: Volkswagen Phaeton V10 TDI | The Brave Pill
RE: Volkswagen Phaeton V10 TDI | The Brave Pill
Saturday 1st October 2022

Volkswagen Phaeton V10 TDI | The Brave Pill

Could this be the time to roll (in) a fat one?


We need to thank the late Ferdinand Piech, one time Volkswagen Group uber-boss, for a significant percentage of our bravest Pills. But here’s one that completes the set, and has to be high in the running for the most courageous of the lot.

Okay, so this column is yet to feature a Porsche 917, but there are ticks against almost all of the other cars that Piech willed into existence, often using a management style that seemed to be based on Conan the Barbarian’s. The list includes the original Audi Quattro, W12-powered Bentley Continental, the slightly smaller W8 that was squeezed into a Passat and even the Bugatti Veyron itself. We’ve also featured this week’s engine twice before, the V10 diesel that was created more to demonstrate technical superiority than due to any rational criteria, although both times in the Touareg.

While the Touareg V10 is brave enough to streak at the winter Olympics, the Phaeton will always be the realer deal. This was the car born from Piech’s personal obsessions and desire to one-up rivals. Offended by Merc’s move into what he saw as Volkswagen territory with the first A-Class, Ferdinand decided to dispatch a tank to park on Daimler’s lawn. The corporate riposte would be an S-Class rival, one that wouldn’t just match the Sonderklasse which had enjoyed two decades at the top of its segment, but instead beat it in all key areas.

The Phaeton would have the grandest start in life, sitting on the same platform as the one created for the forthcoming Bentley Continental. But the need for Merc-beating performance with the range-topper also meant it would use the same 6.0-litre W12 engine that was being developed for its posher sibling, although without turbocharging. 420hp was still plenty, though.

But Piech’s other criteria of bestness for his manifesto product were more demanding, some to the point of obsession. One was that it would need a torsional rigidity of 37,000Nm/ degree - a figure which gave it the stiffest structure of any four-door passenger car in the world at the time. Another was that the bonnet could not visibly move, at all, even when the car was travelling at its top speed; this was clearly a Piech bugbear. He also ordered that it had to be capable of travelling through 50-degree ambient heat at 186mph while maintaining an interior cabin temperature of 22-degrees, this despite production versions being restricted to 155mph. 

There was one obvious issue with the range-topping W12 engine: Europe’s rapid move towards compression ignition. These days Rudolf Diesel is more likely to be burned in effigy than celebrated, but at the turn of the century DERV really did seem to be the fuel of the future, and Volkswagen executives predicted that the profligate 12-cylinder would be a bar to sales in Euro-land. Elsewhere the group was already working on the creation of a new V8 diesel, so it was an obvious stretch to order a brawnier V10 that could sit above it and power the Phaeton and Touarag. One which had, as launched, 5.0-litres of swept capacity, 309hp and a huge 553lb-ft of torque.

Huge effort was being spent on engineering and technology, with all but the basic V6 Phaeton getting all-wheel drive, air suspension, adaptive dampers and an early use of radar cruise control. But much less effort was spent on the Phaeton’s styling, which was smooth and muscular and did a good job at minimizing the car’s visual scale – even the short wheelbase version was over five metres in length – but also very obviously Volkswagen-y. 

The Phaeton ended up bearing such a family resemblance to the contemporary B5 facelift Passat that owners of the grander car were constantly being asked if it was the cheaper one. Which was a bit of a marketing fail given the Passat kicked off at £15,000 while the boggo V6 petrol Phaeton listed at £43,000. Above that the V10 TDI was £58,000 before options - and the LWB W12 was nearly £72,000. That’s more than the £61,935 VW will charge you for the Touareg V6 R-Line which is the most expensive thing they sell in the UK in 2022, and means the daddy Phaeton cost the equivalent of £117,500 in our depreciated pounds. Which was crazy money.

Nor was the V10 a scintillating dynamic experience. Piech’s definition of luxury was all about being calm, fast and unflustered – all characteristics it did very well. The big diesel gave effortless ground-up thrust and never turned loud or coarse, even when pushed. Supple suspension pillowed and parried bumps and dips as appropriate, and if owners did want to travel along a searing desert highway at V.max the climate control would doubtless have kept them nicely chilled.

But these were all virtues by omission, and there was little joy to be found in what was always a mushy driving experience, to the extent the S-Class felt like a substantially sharper steer. My biggest memory of driving a press V10 TDI through London was the fraught navigation through width restrictors thanks to both the Fat One’s XL dimensions and a poor sense of where its extremities lay. That and the orange wood trim, with images of our Pill’s interior triggering flashbacks.

Piech had delivered on his vision of a perfect saloon, but it wasn’t one that many potential customers seemed to share. Granted the Volkswagen badge didn’t do the Phaeton many favours among brand conscious buyers, with the Phaeton being consistently outsold by the Audi A8. Before Phaeton production began Volkswagen told journalists that the brand new ‘Glass Factory’ in Dresden, another nine-figure bit of CapEx in its own right, would be able to make up to 20,000 Phaetons a year. It never got close – after the first four years of sales just 25,000 cars had been built. Sales actually improved later as the Phaeton grew popular in China, but by the time production stopped in 2016 only 85,000 had rolled off the production line. 

Only around 2,000 of these ended up coming to the UK, with the majority of British cars powered by the V6 diesel. The V10 was rare to the extent that many Volkswagen dealerships probably never saw one. The good news is that it is widely regarded to be much easier to work on than the packaging nightmare that is the Touareg V10 TDI, which was pretty much wrapped around its engine. But the bad news is that any V10 still has the capacity to produce serious bills, with details like the £400 injectors and bork-prone electronic control boxes. Despite the ability to get north of 30mpg on a gentle run, you’re never going to run one of these on a tight budget.

Yet they are still very attractively priced for what they are. Our Pill is an pre-facelift car from 2005 which has covered just 78,000 miles according to the dealer selling it. A glance at the MOT record behind the hidden plates shows that the last test on the current registration was passed in 2015, when it had covered 71,800 miles, so it has either spent a period off the road since then, or spent some time wearing another registration that hasn’t caught up yet. But the vendor is courageous or confident enough to be offering a three-month warranty within what really does seem like a very reasonable £8,995 price tag.

That’s stonking value for so much car, with so much engine – even if one that will probably soon have its freedom of movement limited by more low emissions zones. And when it is eventually banned from use it will be practically guaranteed a plinth in the Museum of Environmental Hatecrime. 


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Author
Discussion

foxhounduk

Original Poster:

705 posts

210 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
V10 TDI. Just saying it sound surreal.
We'll never see an engine like this ever again folks.

simongrif2010

16 posts

152 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
Back in the early 2010’s I went to the Wolfsburg VW plant and saw lots of these running around. I asked the engineer we were with, are they testing them? He replied, no we can’t sell them so we use them as site taxis….🤦

pycraft

1,500 posts

214 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
OriginalArticle said:
he other cars that Piech willed into existence, often using a management style that seemed to be based on Conan the Barbarian’s.
What's best in life?
Conan the Barbarian: To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women. [1]
Ferdinand Piech: To crush your enemies' cars, to see your cars driven before you, and to read the lamentation of the Pistonheads.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XUu3_pLPUE.

Robertb

3,911 posts

268 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
I’ve had an unhealthy fascination with these, as I have with the Continental GT and the V10 S8. I know it wouldn’t end well, but I feel oddly drawn to have a go one day.

This one looks like a tidy example for the money. Proper brave pill, bravo.

Limpet

6,627 posts

191 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
State of that boot lid alignment....

(I admit I do have a bit of OCD on this)

Nabbott

295 posts

166 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
Had the V6 diesel bought as an ex-demo and drove it to 100k. Fantastic car!

pb8g09

3,276 posts

99 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
I know for some it’s part of the appeal, but it looks too bland for me. It’s like having a really dull, unattractive spouse who’s actually very good in the sack.

Fusion777

2,631 posts

78 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
The automotive equivalent of the Deltic. Only the V12 TDI is more offensive to devisors of urban air quality policy.

pquinn

7,167 posts

76 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
The only interest I have in one of these things is getting a set of the Campagnolo boot hinges.

As an example of exquisitely overengineered pointlessness those things are just so good.

fruitoftheloon

93 posts

64 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
Mmm, interesting, then I do have an interest in 'incorrect' Germans.

I bought a crankshaft from one of these, going to use it as the support for a table in my workshop, as you do!

I'd love one of these with the W12!

BIRMA

4,274 posts

224 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
I ran one for a few years, fantastic Luxo Barge mine had the individual rear seats, they were all heated and cooled with a massage function. You could do a 400 mile trip and come out as fresh as a daisy.
Never had a problem with it and once on the move had enormous torque, when pushed hard you could hear the deep rumble of the engine but it was silent most of the time.
Had a wonderful tick-over sound nothing like a diesel more like a washing machine in a good way.
One of it's many party tricks was when you turned the ignition on the wooden covered vents would retract, such attention to detail.

Edited by BIRMA on Saturday 1st October 09:46

TheMilkyBarKid

886 posts

59 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
With the bork/big bill potential and looming legislation limiting its usable future its a brave pill alright. Where on earth did they source the wood for the interior from?! I don’t think I’ve ever seen a luminous orange tree?

The spinner of plates

18,084 posts

230 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
That wood though… mind you the other Germans of that era are just as guilty.

One can only assume that stained pine kitchens were incredibly popular amongst German executives in the late 90s.

wpa1975

14,795 posts

144 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
Such a bland looking car with a high bork factor.

It is a no from me.

pquinn

7,167 posts

76 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
Limpet said:
State of that boot lid alignment....

(I admit I do have a bit of OCD on this)
You'd like to assume on one of these it didn't come out of the factory like that.

DodgyGeezer

49,170 posts

220 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
now that is a brave pill and then some. I really like the idea - but, quite frankly, I'm not brave enough (or alternatively I don't like it quite enough)

valiant

14,292 posts

190 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
The engine is stupendous and I’m sure it’s exquisitely built and a lovely place to be but the designers clearly wanted to knock off early and soon as the bosses backs were turned went over to the photocopier, stuck in the design for the Passat and pressed enlarge +30% and voila!

At those prices and with that badge it has to look special as well as be special. They got the second bit right and ignored the first bit.

Fusion777

2,631 posts

78 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
valiant said:
The engine is stupendous and I’m sure it’s exquisitely built and a lovely place to be but the designers clearly wanted to knock off early and soon as the bosses backs were turned went over to the photocopier, stuck in the design for the Passat and pressed enlarge +30% and voila!

At those prices and with that badge it has to look special as well as be special. They got the second bit right and ignored the first bit.
Didn't that apply to the A8 (and A6) relative to the A4, though?

swisstoni

24,162 posts

309 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all
Limpet said:
State of that boot lid alignment....

(I admit I do have a bit of OCD on this)
Given that it’s party piece was massively over-engineered boot hinges, that is disappointing. hehe

samoht

7,301 posts

176 months

Saturday 1st October 2022
quotequote all

Descriptions of these cars always emphasize how highly engineered they are. However to me, engineering isn't just about designing complicated bootlid mechanisms - it's equally about the basic architecture of the car, how you lay out the major masses.

In this regard, placing a large heavy diesel engine entirely ahead of the front wheels just seems like a poor engineering choice for anything that needs to turn corners.

What's interesting is whether this is a deliberate decision because VW / Piech felt that it gives an appropriate level of directional stability eg at high speed on the autobahn, or whether even this 'cost no object' car was limited by the layout and drivetrain that was available within the VW group.