EV or ICE as your daily/fun car combo?
Discussion
After some 16 years of great drivers car ownership, life's duties meant drivers cars had to go to focus on other priorities. I'm now in a position where I can start thinking in getting a drivers car to own, which will be some kind of small hot-hatch.
Have a wife and 2 kids and we need 2 cars for daily use, which currently are 2 small diesel hatches (Corsa and Suzuki Swift). They serve us fine, but I just miss a fun car dearly, it's one of my big passions that brightens my day even in a short commute.
There's only one EV in the market that I would consider which is the Mini Cooper SE. All others are to heavy and pointless for my goal now as they won't be fun to drive and extra luxury and space are not needed. The other ICE contenders are maybe a Hyundai I20N or a Mini Cooper S (or JCW).
Test drove a Mini Cooper SE electric and a JCW back to back. The SE makes the JCW feel slow in acceleration, it really is shocking. The JCW , for me, makes the SE seem a bit boring in every other aspect. More responsive, alive, interactive, (even with a paddle-shift), aggressive and with the vroom vroom noises it makes, so...
My conundrum is that EV would be cheaper to buy and run, but it would leave us with an old car for the longer journeys and take the fun out of road trips, which we plan to do more and more. The ICE would mean freedom but more expensive to buy and, possibly worst, could become very expensive if fuel costs keep rising.
This is a mix of a passion/expense decision with a bit of financial sense as we're well-off but not rich that we can totally ignore if fuel ends up costing 5€ per liter in 5 years.
Any others in this position or maybe share your thoughts on this?
Have a wife and 2 kids and we need 2 cars for daily use, which currently are 2 small diesel hatches (Corsa and Suzuki Swift). They serve us fine, but I just miss a fun car dearly, it's one of my big passions that brightens my day even in a short commute.
There's only one EV in the market that I would consider which is the Mini Cooper SE. All others are to heavy and pointless for my goal now as they won't be fun to drive and extra luxury and space are not needed. The other ICE contenders are maybe a Hyundai I20N or a Mini Cooper S (or JCW).
Test drove a Mini Cooper SE electric and a JCW back to back. The SE makes the JCW feel slow in acceleration, it really is shocking. The JCW , for me, makes the SE seem a bit boring in every other aspect. More responsive, alive, interactive, (even with a paddle-shift), aggressive and with the vroom vroom noises it makes, so...
My conundrum is that EV would be cheaper to buy and run, but it would leave us with an old car for the longer journeys and take the fun out of road trips, which we plan to do more and more. The ICE would mean freedom but more expensive to buy and, possibly worst, could become very expensive if fuel costs keep rising.
This is a mix of a passion/expense decision with a bit of financial sense as we're well-off but not rich that we can totally ignore if fuel ends up costing 5€ per liter in 5 years.
Any others in this position or maybe share your thoughts on this?
I drive an EV as a pseudo-daily, but it's more of a toy than anything else. Great fun, I can drive it on its door handles (subjectively) and it's all within the speed limit. Yet if the weather's fair, I'll take it to work, go shopping, see friends etc.
People tend to overcomplicate the EV <> ICE debate. Would a Tesla be faster than my F-Type? Probably. Would it be more economical? Also probably. Would be it be more fun to drive? I would say no.
However my EV is pretty much the basic essence of driving. None of this 17 cameras per corner or automatically heated parking - it's got no traction control, no power steering, doesn't even have a heater or radio.
It's still by far the most fun car to drive in my fleet, purely because it doesn't take itself seriously and generally likes to be driven hard. What does that mean? The regen is so strong that you don't really need to use the brakes unless you're in heavy traffic, and it's so f
king slow that the throttle is literally an on/off switch.
It's a Twizy.
People tend to overcomplicate the EV <> ICE debate. Would a Tesla be faster than my F-Type? Probably. Would it be more economical? Also probably. Would be it be more fun to drive? I would say no.
However my EV is pretty much the basic essence of driving. None of this 17 cameras per corner or automatically heated parking - it's got no traction control, no power steering, doesn't even have a heater or radio.
It's still by far the most fun car to drive in my fleet, purely because it doesn't take itself seriously and generally likes to be driven hard. What does that mean? The regen is so strong that you don't really need to use the brakes unless you're in heavy traffic, and it's so f
king slow that the throttle is literally an on/off switch.It's a Twizy.
Thing is are EV really faster, from my findings it's not clear cut? The Mini is often used as an example SE (6.35) verses Cooper S (6.8). Two things here, I simply could purchase a John Cooper works (4.8). But what is more interesting, when using my friends vbox and timing both cars, you find both are just under 6.5sec, so which is fastest comes down to how cleanly you get away.
Times in brackets are 0-60 times in second
Times in brackets are 0-60 times in second
ashenfie said:
Thing is are EV really faster, from my findings it's not clear cut? The Mini is often used as an example SE (6.35) verses Cooper S (6.8). Two things here, I simply could purchase a John Cooper works (4.8). But what is more interesting, when using my friends vbox and timing both cars, you find both are just under 6.5sec, so which is fastest comes down to how cleanly you get away.
Times in brackets are 0-60 times in second
In seconds, or in second gear?Times in brackets are 0-60 times in second
(Second gear can be fast...but bad for the car!)
EV speed is immaterial as very few of them enable you to carry any of that speed through a corner they way a well sorted fun car would, we have had electric cars the last few years, i3, VW ID3 and now and e208 GT, down my back road route to work they are quick in the straight bits between the corners but rubbish when you get to them, our old Mini Cooper (non S, non JCW) was way more fun and virtually no slower from A to B...
We love having the electric and have a Cupra Born on order but a hot hatch it ain't so we run EV for practicality and the ICE for fun !!
We love having the electric and have a Cupra Born on order but a hot hatch it ain't so we run EV for practicality and the ICE for fun !!
Thanks for your thoughts. I simply do not wish to spend a lot of money on a new car and for me a small hot-hatch is perfect, it will be practical, fun to drive, less expensive, low(ish) fuel consumption and it can take the 4 of us anywhere.
The issue is I have 2 older ICE cars and I cannot simply buy two, to have a EV and a new ICE. It's either one or the other :-) EVs are heavily subsidized and I have the option to rent through a company. It's simply a question of how much extra I'm willing to spend on driving happiness I guess.
It also depends on how long fuel costs will remain attainable, if it's 20 years time, that's plenty of time to enjoy the ICE, if it's 5, then not so good.
The Mini Cooper SE is also fun in the corners, it's just not so much has the JCW, so it's not a binary case of EV=horrible to drive, ICE=driving nirvana. Most ICEs are also boring to drive :-)
The issue is I have 2 older ICE cars and I cannot simply buy two, to have a EV and a new ICE. It's either one or the other :-) EVs are heavily subsidized and I have the option to rent through a company. It's simply a question of how much extra I'm willing to spend on driving happiness I guess.
It also depends on how long fuel costs will remain attainable, if it's 20 years time, that's plenty of time to enjoy the ICE, if it's 5, then not so good.
The Mini Cooper SE is also fun in the corners, it's just not so much has the JCW, so it's not a binary case of EV=horrible to drive, ICE=driving nirvana. Most ICEs are also boring to drive :-)
You're over thinking it.
Buy ICE now - if the fuel price rises beyond your means, sell it.
You're talking about risking a couple of grand over a couple of years for a car you will enjoy more in every single aspect of driving other than (potentially) straight line acceleration.
If cars are your passion, spend some money on your passion. No one flinches at someone buying a set of golf clubs for £2k or a carbon road bike for £5k, so spend the extra monthlies and enjoy your car.
I think you're making the mistake lots of people make of comparing a one time expense with ongoing enjoyment.
Buy ICE now - if the fuel price rises beyond your means, sell it.
You're talking about risking a couple of grand over a couple of years for a car you will enjoy more in every single aspect of driving other than (potentially) straight line acceleration.
If cars are your passion, spend some money on your passion. No one flinches at someone buying a set of golf clubs for £2k or a carbon road bike for £5k, so spend the extra monthlies and enjoy your car.
I think you're making the mistake lots of people make of comparing a one time expense with ongoing enjoyment.
We have the Mini SE and honestly can't say it's not fun to drive. It has great acceleration at any (more or less) legal speed, carries a lot of speed through the corners, but...
I think its biggest issue is the regenerative braking. Even in the lowest regeneration setting I find difficult to get the braking point right because of it: either you get the foot off the accelerator too early and you get in the corner slower than intended, or else I wait too much and have to slam on the brakes to get into the corner, I simply can't get that feeling of smooth driving I can find with the Clio.
All the above -as I said- talking about road driving, with speed and safety margins to match.
Another point to consider is that quick driving drains the battery and the reduced use of regenerative braking doesn't really help getting some power fed back in, so the already limited range is badly affected.
HTH
I think its biggest issue is the regenerative braking. Even in the lowest regeneration setting I find difficult to get the braking point right because of it: either you get the foot off the accelerator too early and you get in the corner slower than intended, or else I wait too much and have to slam on the brakes to get into the corner, I simply can't get that feeling of smooth driving I can find with the Clio.
All the above -as I said- talking about road driving, with speed and safety margins to match.
Another point to consider is that quick driving drains the battery and the reduced use of regenerative braking doesn't really help getting some power fed back in, so the already limited range is badly affected.
HTH
Thanks for your thoughts. I simply do not wish to spend a lot of money on a new car and for me a small hot-hatch is perfect, it will be practical, fun to drive, less expensive, low(ish) fuel consumption and it can take the 4 of us anywhere.
The issue is I have 2 older ICE cars and I cannot simply buy two, to have a EV and a new ICE. It's either one or the other :-) EVs are heavily subsidized and I have the option to rent through a company. It's simply a question of how much extra I'm willing to spend on driving happiness I guess.
It also depends on how long fuel costs will remain attainable, if it's 20 years time, that's plenty of time to enjoy the ICE, if it's 5, then not so good.
The Mini Cooper SE is also fun in the corners, it's just not so much has the JCW, so it's not a binary case of EV=horrible to drive, ICE=driving nirvana. Most ICEs are also boring to drive :-)
The issue is I have 2 older ICE cars and I cannot simply buy two, to have a EV and a new ICE. It's either one or the other :-) EVs are heavily subsidized and I have the option to rent through a company. It's simply a question of how much extra I'm willing to spend on driving happiness I guess.
It also depends on how long fuel costs will remain attainable, if it's 20 years time, that's plenty of time to enjoy the ICE, if it's 5, then not so good.
The Mini Cooper SE is also fun in the corners, it's just not so much has the JCW, so it's not a binary case of EV=horrible to drive, ICE=driving nirvana. Most ICEs are also boring to drive :-)
AlexIT said:
We have the Mini SE and honestly can't say it's not fun to drive. It has great acceleration at any (more or less) legal speed, carries a lot of speed through the corners, but...
I think its biggest issue is the regenerative braking. Even in the lowest regeneration setting I find difficult to get the braking point right because of it: either you get the foot off the accelerator too early and you get in the corner slower than intended, or else I wait too much and have to slam on the brakes to get into the corner, I simply can't get that feeling of smooth driving I can find with the Clio.
All the above -as I said- talking about road driving, with speed and safety margins to match.
Another point to consider is that quick driving drains the battery and the reduced use of regenerative braking doesn't really help getting some power fed back in, so the already limited range is badly affected.
HTH
It is fun to drive, but not great fun. No engine sound, no gears (means less interaction) and the range is the killer for me because it would leave it out of big trips, leaving us with an old car for that.I think its biggest issue is the regenerative braking. Even in the lowest regeneration setting I find difficult to get the braking point right because of it: either you get the foot off the accelerator too early and you get in the corner slower than intended, or else I wait too much and have to slam on the brakes to get into the corner, I simply can't get that feeling of smooth driving I can find with the Clio.
All the above -as I said- talking about road driving, with speed and safety margins to match.
Another point to consider is that quick driving drains the battery and the reduced use of regenerative braking doesn't really help getting some power fed back in, so the already limited range is badly affected.
HTH
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