England is tiny. Why so many different emission zones?
Discussion
England is not a large country. You can drive from London to Scotland in what 5 hours? So why are there different emission zones with unique rules.
So to travel around England you need to navigate that 4/5 clean air zones with different rules?
If you are doing a trip from London to Bristol then to Birmingham and Manchester.. this would take what 5 hours? And you may have a car that will be ok in Manchester but not in London.
The whole thing is a mess. If you have a zone best to make it standard amongst cities that want to participate and there must be a strict criteria a city must meet before being allowed to introduce a zone. This should be backed by science and data.
If you are from Bristol, why do you need to know what the rules are for a completley different borough. Whats next? Different emergy numbers for various regions of England. This should have been set by central government not by local governments?
So to travel around England you need to navigate that 4/5 clean air zones with different rules?
If you are doing a trip from London to Bristol then to Birmingham and Manchester.. this would take what 5 hours? And you may have a car that will be ok in Manchester but not in London.
The whole thing is a mess. If you have a zone best to make it standard amongst cities that want to participate and there must be a strict criteria a city must meet before being allowed to introduce a zone. This should be backed by science and data.
If you are from Bristol, why do you need to know what the rules are for a completley different borough. Whats next? Different emergy numbers for various regions of England. This should have been set by central government not by local governments?
Edited by Jamaica on Tuesday 29th November 18:00
England is not a large country. You can drive from London to Scotland in what 5 hours? So why are there different emission zones with unique rules.
So to travel around England you need to navigate that 4/5 clean air zones with different rules? Should this be expanded to time zones too? Should Bristol get its own time zone.
If you are doing a trip from London to Bristol then to Birmingham and Manchester.. this would take what 5 hours? And you may have a car that will be ok in Manchester but not in London.
The whole thing is a mess. If you have a zone best to make it standard amongst cities that want to participate and there must be a strict criteria a city must meet before being allowed to introduce a zone. This should be backed by science and data.
If you are from Bristol, why do you need to know what the rules are for a completley different borough. Whats next? Different emergy numbers for various regions of England. This should have been set by central government not by local governments?
So to travel around England you need to navigate that 4/5 clean air zones with different rules? Should this be expanded to time zones too? Should Bristol get its own time zone.
If you are doing a trip from London to Bristol then to Birmingham and Manchester.. this would take what 5 hours? And you may have a car that will be ok in Manchester but not in London.
The whole thing is a mess. If you have a zone best to make it standard amongst cities that want to participate and there must be a strict criteria a city must meet before being allowed to introduce a zone. This should be backed by science and data.
If you are from Bristol, why do you need to know what the rules are for a completley different borough. Whats next? Different emergy numbers for various regions of England. This should have been set by central government not by local governments?
Edited by Jamaica on Tuesday 29th November 10:02
Edited by Jamaica on Tuesday 29th November 17:59
Edited by Jamaica on Wednesday 30th November 12:49
Jamaica said:
England is not a large country. You can drive from London to Scotland in what 5 hours? So why are there different emission zones with unique rules.
So to travel around England you need to navigate that 4/5 clean air zones with different rules?
If you are doing a trip from London to Bristol then to Birmingham and Manchester.. this would take what 5 hours? And you may have a car that will be ok in Manchester but not in London.
The whole thing is a mess. If you have a zone best to make it standard amongst cities that want to participate and there must be a strict criteria a city must meet before being allowed to introduce a zone. This should be backed by science and data.
Control.So to travel around England you need to navigate that 4/5 clean air zones with different rules?
If you are doing a trip from London to Bristol then to Birmingham and Manchester.. this would take what 5 hours? And you may have a car that will be ok in Manchester but not in London.
The whole thing is a mess. If you have a zone best to make it standard amongst cities that want to participate and there must be a strict criteria a city must meet before being allowed to introduce a zone. This should be backed by science and data.
Edited by Jamaica on Tuesday 29th November 09:49
Edited by Jamaica on Tuesday 29th November 09:50
Elected officials implemented unwanted rules.
Evolved said:
Great Britain is a land of bureaucratic nonsense, run by power crazed morons out to line their own pockets in the short time they hold power.
Already veering wildly off topic, but could one not argue that because MPs and such don't get paid enough, this tends towards 2 types of people ending up as MPs, those that weren't good enough to get the proper high paying jobs in London / their local city, and those who are driven by the idea of power / control, neither of which are exactly prime government material.I'm sure there are the idealistic 1% who want to "make a difference" and so on, but I presume their spirit is crushed by their awful colleagues
They are supposed to reduce congestion, if the end game is health and preventable deaths just ban non complaint cars don't charge them!
Khan wind bag supreme in London is case in point his latest change is a tax on the working class in London and a new report suggests it will cripple the NHS in London but he just wants money for his failing city and policies!
Khan wind bag supreme in London is case in point his latest change is a tax on the working class in London and a new report suggests it will cripple the NHS in London but he just wants money for his failing city and policies!
The problem for me is more that it's retroactive legislation... You bought the greenest car you could in year X, then in year X+n someone says "nope, your car is just too dirty now" and all of a sudden you can't use it without paying what amounts to a fine.
If it absolutely must be done, a system similar to France's would be good. I say similar because I think they should literally just use the Euro class, not have a look up table where Euro x is Critair y. But at least it's consistent.
If it absolutely must be done, a system similar to France's would be good. I say similar because I think they should literally just use the Euro class, not have a look up table where Euro x is Critair y. But at least it's consistent.
MitchT said:
Creating as much ambiguity as possible maximises the likelihood of people making mistakes for which they can be fined. It's all about revenue.
Yep I agree. Bristol near me has just introduced a CAZ with (from memory) a £9 charge for my 2015 diesel car. It's badly thought out for many reasons but the car park I use the most (Cabot's Circus) in the centre has the entrance outside the CAZ but some of the exits in it. I'm not risking using it as I expect once committed to a particular exit it'll probably not be possible to reverse back and find another.
So I'll not be using Bristol city centre for shopping anymore. Cribbs Causeway or Cheltenham for me.
BristolCC want revenue whilst killing town centre shops.
Incidentally most people in Bristol are not rich. My 2015 diesel is quite modern compared to most.
Scarletpimpofnel said:
Yep I agree.
Bristol near me has just introduced a CAZ with (from memory) a £9 charge for my 2015 diesel car. It's badly thought out for many reasons but the car park I use the most (Cabot's Circus) in the centre has the entrance outside the CAZ but some of the exits in it. I'm not risking using it as I expect once committed to a particular exit it'll probably not be possible to reverse back and find another.
So I'll not be using Bristol city centre for shopping anymore. Cribbs Causeway or Cheltenham for me.
BristolCC want revenue whilst killing town centre shops.
Incidentally most people in Bristol are not rich. My 2015 diesel is quite modern compared to most.
I noticed this and some discussion on social media, you couldn't make up the fact that cabots is in and out like the hockey cokey!Bristol near me has just introduced a CAZ with (from memory) a £9 charge for my 2015 diesel car. It's badly thought out for many reasons but the car park I use the most (Cabot's Circus) in the centre has the entrance outside the CAZ but some of the exits in it. I'm not risking using it as I expect once committed to a particular exit it'll probably not be possible to reverse back and find another.
So I'll not be using Bristol city centre for shopping anymore. Cribbs Causeway or Cheltenham for me.
BristolCC want revenue whilst killing town centre shops.
Incidentally most people in Bristol are not rich. My 2015 diesel is quite modern compared to most.
Alot of my colleagues in bristol don't run newer vehicles for various reasons and this is going to hit them hard, I think it will see a reduction in use which will help air quality but not the centre finances.
The irony for me is that under labour the moved loads of people into diesels and now they going to tax those cars!
As a final slap in the face there are grants for changing your car, they are offering you 2k to get a new car lol
https://www.bristol.gov.uk/residents/streets-trave...
Edited by surveyor_101 on Tuesday 29th November 10:54
I thought the criteria for all the new clean air zones was Euro 4 petrol/Euro 6 diesel?
I don't particularly favour them, but I don't think the criteria are particularly inconsistent. Ideally if they are going to become more common it should be possible to use one portal to pay any of them. At the moment paying them is done via the relevant local authority.
I don't particularly favour them, but I don't think the criteria are particularly inconsistent. Ideally if they are going to become more common it should be possible to use one portal to pay any of them. At the moment paying them is done via the relevant local authority.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff