RE: Electric Porsche Boxster spied in the wild
Monday 5th December 2022
Electric Porsche Boxster spied in the wild
And you thought the flat-four 718 was controversial...
The time has come. Porsche vowed to rip the controversial flat-four engine out of its 718 range and replace it with electric power for 2025; now it’s making good on its promise. This heavily clad test car has been roaming the streets in complete silence hoping to not get caught by those pesky spy photographers. As you can see, it didn’t work.
Don’t let the centre exit exhaust fool you. It’s a phoney. And one of the few tell-tale signs that this is in fact Stuttgart’s impending EV sports car. That, and the seemingly blocked-off cooling ducts ahead of the rear wheels. Granted, electric cars still need to be cooled, but that looks to be handled by the two GT4-style intakes either side of the front bumper. Here they appear to be closed, comprising of a line of slats that, presumably, open up when extra cooling is needed.
It’s no secret Porsche is on an electric charge (pun intended). The Taycan is one of its best-sellers, it’s dabbled with Formula E and the recent(ish) Mission R concept looked an awful lot like a futuristic version of its entry-level sports car. But the biggest indicator yet was the Cayman GT4 ePerformance that silently cruised up the Goodwood hill climb at this year’s Festival of Speed. The electric Boxster and Cayman is happening, folks, and it’s been unfurling in front of our eyes for some time now.
Porsche has hinted before that some styling elements from the Mission R concept may find their way onto a production car. And while the chunky cladding on this prototype makes it a bit challenging to pick the design apart, the thin rear light strip looks as though it might have come from the Mission R. It sits higher than on the current 718, too, just as it does on the EV concept.
Of course, while we’ll likely see some visual cues taken from the Mission R, it’s unlikely we’ll see similar performance numbers. Both the Mission R and Cayman GT4 ePerformance develop 1,088hp from a pair of electric motors at either end of the vehicle. They’re also based on 900-volt architecture (the Taycan uses 800-volt charging technology), allowing 340kW charging for a five to 80 per cent battery top up in just 15 minutes. Numbers like that on a road car would be astounding – and unfathomable on Porsche’s sports car entry point. What we do know, however, is that it'll be based on an EV-only platform, so another GT4 RS with a screaming flat-six looks out of the question.
Judging by the heavy disguise, it looks like we’ve got a bit of a wait on our hands until the production model is released. Besides, the 718’s switch to electric power isn’t due for another two years, so there’s still plenty of time to pick up Boxster or Cayman that have fully functioning exhaust outlets. We suggest you do.
Discussion
I think the fake pipe is just to throw people off.
Still a sad day for enthusiasts. The energy in battery production outweighs petrol power for several thousand miles so for people like me who do 5k a year and keep a car for 3 or 4 years its actually more harmful to buy a new EV than a petrol car.
Off to buy a 987.2 S I suppose.
Still a sad day for enthusiasts. The energy in battery production outweighs petrol power for several thousand miles so for people like me who do 5k a year and keep a car for 3 or 4 years its actually more harmful to buy a new EV than a petrol car.
Off to buy a 987.2 S I suppose.
Jon_S_Rally said:
Fake tailpipes on an EV is a bit tragic. This is such an important car though. Could it be the first relatively mainstream EV that actually nails the dynamics?
I assumed that it was a fake on this prototype only. Who knows if the production car will feature it. Like you I hope not, but it's not conclusive (in my opinion).scoopdydoo said:
The energy in battery production outweighs petrol power for several thousand miles so for people like me who do 5k a year and keep a car for 3 or 4 years its actually more harmful to buy a new EV than a petrol car.
The energy consumed by battery production is mostly electricity, which means it can be mostly renewable. Also, why are you ignoring the footprint from the second, third and fourth owner of the car?
Or were you planning to scrap the car when you are done with it?
This fixation with breakeven in the first ownership is flawed, the planet doesn't care how many times a car gets sold, only what the lifetime footprint is.
GT9 said:
scoopdydoo said:
The energy in battery production outweighs petrol power for several thousand miles so for people like me who do 5k a year and keep a car for 3 or 4 years its actually more harmful to buy a new EV than a petrol car.
The energy consumed by battery production is mostly electricity, which means it can be mostly renewable. Also, why are you ignoring the footprint from the second, third and fourth owner of the car?
Or were you planning to scrap the car when you are done with it?
This fixation with breakeven in the first ownership is flawed, the planet doesn't care how many times a car gets sold, only what the lifetime footprint is.
Apparently the average age of a car in the UK was 8.5 years (in 2020) and it's on an increasing trend so it looks like it'll be closer to 9.5 years within the next decade. Maybe battery life will influence that at some point?
based on a 9.5 year average life expectancy how does that work out with regard to production emissions (factoring in renewable fuel source)?
I'm expecting the EV to start edging ahead, and bear in mind advances in renewable energy generation and battery tech over the next decade plus several manufacturers are now using recycled materials for interiors which will help.
GT9 said:
scoopdydoo said:
The energy in battery production outweighs petrol power for several thousand miles so for people like me who do 5k a year and keep a car for 3 or 4 years its actually more harmful to buy a new EV than a petrol car.
The energy consumed by battery production is mostly electricity, which means it can be mostly renewable. Also, why are you ignoring the footprint from the second, third and fourth owner of the car?
Or were you planning to scrap the car when you are done with it?
This fixation with breakeven in the first ownership is flawed, the planet doesn't care how many times a car gets sold, only what the lifetime footprint is.
BUT
The country of manufacture might play a critical element in deciding where I seek to source a supposedly environmental product perhaps. I was intrigued by the amount of electric car manufacture in China with BMW for example moving its Mini there. There are so many reasons of course but as stated above electricity is a big cost and power in China in an article I recently saw rated electric costs to business as about a third of those in the UK. How accurate and definitive the article I can't say, but if you then figure that I understand 2/3 of electricity in China comes from coal power?
So could your Shanghai Tesla be perhaps a lot less green in its manufacture than expected?
Jon_S_Rally said:
Fake tailpipes on an EV is a bit tragic. This is such an important car though. Could it be the first relatively mainstream EV that actually nails the dynamics?
It's just a part of the prototype disguise I'm sure.I'm actually quite interested to see how this develops, outside of the initial Tesla roadster have there been any pure ev mass market sports cars? Excluding unobtainium from lotus etc.
Cool it's a drop top too.
The turbo flat 4 was crappy anyway and apparently all new boxster buyers wanted auto so the means of propulsion seems largely irrelevant.
shalmaneser said:
It's just a part of the prototype disguise I'm sure.
I'm actually quite interested to see how this develops, outside of the initial Tesla roadster have there been any pure ev mass market sports cars? Excluding unobtainium from lotus etc.
Cool it's a drop top too.
The turbo flat 4 was crappy anyway and apparently all new boxster buyers wanted auto so the means of propulsion seems largely irrelevant.
The last sentence is pertinent, it's an ideal car to electrify. Most buyers aren't enthusiasts, they're badge junkies. I wonder how much it will weigh?I'm actually quite interested to see how this develops, outside of the initial Tesla roadster have there been any pure ev mass market sports cars? Excluding unobtainium from lotus etc.
Cool it's a drop top too.
The turbo flat 4 was crappy anyway and apparently all new boxster buyers wanted auto so the means of propulsion seems largely irrelevant.
I'm guessing 1800kgs.
Venisonpie said:
shalmaneser said:
It's just a part of the prototype disguise I'm sure.
I'm actually quite interested to see how this develops, outside of the initial Tesla roadster have there been any pure ev mass market sports cars? Excluding unobtainium from lotus etc.
Cool it's a drop top too.
The turbo flat 4 was crappy anyway and apparently all new boxster buyers wanted auto so the means of propulsion seems largely irrelevant.
The last sentence is pertinent, it's an ideal car to electrify. Most buyers aren't enthusiasts, they're badge junkies. I wonder how much it will weigh?I'm actually quite interested to see how this develops, outside of the initial Tesla roadster have there been any pure ev mass market sports cars? Excluding unobtainium from lotus etc.
Cool it's a drop top too.
The turbo flat 4 was crappy anyway and apparently all new boxster buyers wanted auto so the means of propulsion seems largely irrelevant.
I'm guessing 1800kgs.
scoopdydoo said:
I think the fake pipe is just to throw people off.
Still a sad day for enthusiasts. The energy in battery production outweighs petrol power for several thousand miles so for people like me who do 5k a year and keep a car for 3 or 4 years its actually more harmful to buy a new EV than a petrol car.
Off to buy a 987.2 S I suppose.
But you can hardly pretend to have any genuine environmental concern if you are changing your ice car every 20k miles. Still a sad day for enthusiasts. The energy in battery production outweighs petrol power for several thousand miles so for people like me who do 5k a year and keep a car for 3 or 4 years its actually more harmful to buy a new EV than a petrol car.
Off to buy a 987.2 S I suppose.
If full electrification of cars happens by 2035, as has been claimed, or even at any time relatively soon, then any manual, N/A, flat six Porsche in good condition is going to be highly collectible to enthusiasts like air-cooled cars are now.
If it ever gets to the point that stick shift involvement and engine charisma will never be available new again, then every self respecting hardcore enthusiast is gonna be chasing a finite (and slowly decreasing) pool of ICE manual cars.
Glad I finally did it, and have got myself a 987.1 manual.
If it ever gets to the point that stick shift involvement and engine charisma will never be available new again, then every self respecting hardcore enthusiast is gonna be chasing a finite (and slowly decreasing) pool of ICE manual cars.
Glad I finally did it, and have got myself a 987.1 manual.
jbforce10 said:
GT9 said:
scoopdydoo said:
The energy in battery production outweighs petrol power for several thousand miles so for people like me who do 5k a year and keep a car for 3 or 4 years its actually more harmful to buy a new EV than a petrol car.
The energy consumed by battery production is mostly electricity, which means it can be mostly renewable. Also, why are you ignoring the footprint from the second, third and fourth owner of the car?
Or were you planning to scrap the car when you are done with it?
This fixation with breakeven in the first ownership is flawed, the planet doesn't care how many times a car gets sold, only what the lifetime footprint is.
Apparently the average age of a car in the UK was 8.5 years (in 2020) and it's on an increasing trend so it looks like it'll be closer to 9.5 years within the next decade. Maybe battery life will influence that at some point?
based on a 9.5 year average life expectancy how does that work out with regard to production emissions (factoring in renewable fuel source)?
I'm expecting the EV to start edging ahead, and bear in mind advances in renewable energy generation and battery tech over the next decade plus several manufacturers are now using recycled materials for interiors which will help.
Average life expectancy is more like 14 or 15 years, over which time an average car is expected to travel 200,000 km.
A UK EV currently has an average lifetime footprint of just under 100 g/km, whereas ICE is closer to 250 g/km, depending on which fuel it uses.
Which means we are talking 20 tons vs 50 tons lifetime footprint, it's pretty clear cut already.
The crucial bit is that when EV population is higher, in combination with a higher proportion of renewable electricity, the EV footprint can be as low as 40-50 g/km.
At that point we are looking at under 10 tons lifetime footprint for an EV, around 5 times lower than an equivalent ICE.
Miserablegit said:
Except by buying a new EV the purchaser is dumping eight to ten years’ worth of carbon into the environment at day 1 with an annual mileage of 5k pa.
I don’t think EV sports cars are the “green” solution they are portrayed as.
Buy a v12 instead
Except the grid is getting greener and so is the mileage before it is less carbon intensive than ICE. That time depends on the size of the battery as well as the annual mileage.I don’t think EV sports cars are the “green” solution they are portrayed as.
Buy a v12 instead
I don't expect we'll be seeing a Boxster with a 100kWh battery.
Miserablegit said:
Except by buying a new EV the purchaser is dumping eight to ten years’ worth of carbon into the environment at day 1 with an annual mileage of 5k pa.
I don’t think EV sports cars are the “green” solution they are portrayed as.
Buy a v12 instead
It's pretty selective to base those figures on "5k p.a." mileage. So, you dump only 4-5 years worth of carbon with 10k mileage. There, 50% improvement already, without looking at aero or tyre pressures.I don’t think EV sports cars are the “green” solution they are portrayed as.
Buy a v12 instead
Pretty sure producing all the other thousands of machined bits that make up an engine and all related ancillaries that an EV just does not have, must dump a couple of years' carbon too. Or maybe a decade's worth, at 1k miles a year.
Yes it's very very true that right now EVs are nowhere near as green as they could be (even though over the life of a vehicle, they still are greener). But a lot of this is due to the source of the electricity to power and to produce them. This is fixable. Taking millions of years worth of stored carbon out of the ground and releasing it into the atmosphere in a couple of hundred years is a one-way street, and is not, not even if it halves or quarters. Practically any addition is an addition, natural re-sequestering is just off the scale slow.
Miserablegit said:
Except by buying a new EV the purchaser is dumping eight to ten years’ worth of carbon into the environment at day 1 with an annual mileage of 5k pa.
I don’t think EV sports cars are the “green” solution they are portrayed as.
Buy a v12 instead
'10 years of carbon' is about 25-30 tons for an ICE.I don’t think EV sports cars are the “green” solution they are portrayed as.
Buy a v12 instead
Most EVs won't get to 20 tons even at the end of life, INCLUDING production.
Have a look at the 2050 comparison as well, just in case you were still in any doubt.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/lifecyc...
Of course it will be heavier but will Porsche manage to resist the urge of making it bigger?
Size is the other enemy of sports cars.
Not really of interest to me personally yet but interested to see how it develops. Porsche probably the best bet at a decent electric sports car at the moment.
Size is the other enemy of sports cars.
Not really of interest to me personally yet but interested to see how it develops. Porsche probably the best bet at a decent electric sports car at the moment.
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