Best car makes/models for home maintenance
Discussion
What makes and models would PH members recommend for manageable home maintenance?
My personal idea of what makes a car good in this area are as follows:
1. A reasonable base level of reliability to begin with
2. When it does go wrong, the cause of problem is usually fairly obvious
3. Good parts availability and reasonable prices
4. Not a total b
d to work on.
5. Good online support community and how-to guides etc.
At the moment, my experience is with an MG ZT (surprisingly good for all the above) and a BMW Z4 - less good for all the above.
General discussion and anecdotes of good/bad experiences with different makes welcome.
My personal idea of what makes a car good in this area are as follows:
1. A reasonable base level of reliability to begin with
2. When it does go wrong, the cause of problem is usually fairly obvious
3. Good parts availability and reasonable prices
4. Not a total b
d to work on.5. Good online support community and how-to guides etc.
At the moment, my experience is with an MG ZT (surprisingly good for all the above) and a BMW Z4 - less good for all the above.
General discussion and anecdotes of good/bad experiences with different makes welcome.
In my experience it tends to be big cars at a relatively low spec, for example one of the easiest cars to work on I've ever had was a Subaru Legacy with the 2.4 NA engine - loads of space and lovely engineering touches.
e.g. Lift the car up to work on the suspension, and the odd-looking holes in the suspension arms are now aligned at the perfect angle to access bolts from below with an extension bar. Another is lots of P-clips and well-clipped pipework etc all set up to be removed and refitted nicely.
e.g. Lift the car up to work on the suspension, and the odd-looking holes in the suspension arms are now aligned at the perfect angle to access bolts from below with an extension bar. Another is lots of P-clips and well-clipped pipework etc all set up to be removed and refitted nicely.
Old is the answer. Modern engines are difficult to get to with stuff hidden away. But then again modern stuff does not wear out so often.
Right now my Lexus RX400h is a joy to maintain. It doesn't break often and when it does its easy to fix. Changing the oil is a pleasure as when you remove the oil filter there is a little funnel thing on the side of the engine to guide any spilled oil out of the way and into the catch bowl. Mind you it also has all that scary high voltage stuff lurking under the bonnet.
If I was just learning about fixing cars I would probably get a series land rover. Tough as old boots till they rust away. Parts are dirt cheap, loads of online help and basic engineering. Only issue is you really don't want to drive far in one.
Right now my Lexus RX400h is a joy to maintain. It doesn't break often and when it does its easy to fix. Changing the oil is a pleasure as when you remove the oil filter there is a little funnel thing on the side of the engine to guide any spilled oil out of the way and into the catch bowl. Mind you it also has all that scary high voltage stuff lurking under the bonnet.
If I was just learning about fixing cars I would probably get a series land rover. Tough as old boots till they rust away. Parts are dirt cheap, loads of online help and basic engineering. Only issue is you really don't want to drive far in one.
With the caveat that I've never owned anything less than 10 years old, I've always found Fords to be surprisingly well thought out from a home maintenance point of view.
Simple touches, like being able to remove the headlights on a mark 3 Mondeo with very basic tools and about 45 seconds of your time. Changing bulbs was a complete breeze. When compared to some cars where you need to go in via the inner wheel arch liner and need 6 double jointed fingers to change a bulb, it was a simple, well engineered solution.
There are levels to home maintenance though.
I've found Porsche to be very well designed and engineered, but 'odd' choices of metal used for fixings underneath leading to mixed metals reacting and fusing together. Turning what should be a well thought out and straight forward to accomplish maintenance task turning into an all weekend long saga when the *&^%$£ bolt refuses to shift. ARB drop links and exhaust manifolds on a 986 Boxster (I assume a 996 911 would be identical) being particular nightmares that could be avoided by specifying metals that didn't react in quite such a grabby way!
I've also found French stuff (mainly a 306 that my ex had ... maybe still has???) to be really hit & miss. Some jobs were made so much harder than they needed to be, if only a little thought had been given to maintenance. Other jobs were a real breeze and left me wondering why French cars had such a bad rep for working on.
The only thing I didn't really work on myself was my BMW E39 M5. That kinda scared me. I don't know if it was the packaging in the engine bay, or the fact that at the time it was worth more than every other car I'd even owned put together, but I was always reluctant to do any more than very basic things on that.
Simple touches, like being able to remove the headlights on a mark 3 Mondeo with very basic tools and about 45 seconds of your time. Changing bulbs was a complete breeze. When compared to some cars where you need to go in via the inner wheel arch liner and need 6 double jointed fingers to change a bulb, it was a simple, well engineered solution.
There are levels to home maintenance though.
I've found Porsche to be very well designed and engineered, but 'odd' choices of metal used for fixings underneath leading to mixed metals reacting and fusing together. Turning what should be a well thought out and straight forward to accomplish maintenance task turning into an all weekend long saga when the *&^%$£ bolt refuses to shift. ARB drop links and exhaust manifolds on a 986 Boxster (I assume a 996 911 would be identical) being particular nightmares that could be avoided by specifying metals that didn't react in quite such a grabby way!
I've also found French stuff (mainly a 306 that my ex had ... maybe still has???) to be really hit & miss. Some jobs were made so much harder than they needed to be, if only a little thought had been given to maintenance. Other jobs were a real breeze and left me wondering why French cars had such a bad rep for working on.
The only thing I didn't really work on myself was my BMW E39 M5. That kinda scared me. I don't know if it was the packaging in the engine bay, or the fact that at the time it was worth more than every other car I'd even owned put together, but I was always reluctant to do any more than very basic things on that.
Bennet said:
What makes and models would PH members recommend for manageable home maintenance?
My personal idea of what makes a car good in this area are as follows:
1. A reasonable base level of reliability to begin with
2. When it does go wrong, the cause of problem is usually fairly obvious
3. Good parts availability and reasonable prices
4. Not a total bd to work on.
5. Good online support community and how-to guides etc.
At the moment, my experience is with an MG ZT (surprisingly good for all the above) and a BMW Z4 - less good for all the above.
Having had both, I can't see what the problem with the Z4 was?My personal idea of what makes a car good in this area are as follows:
1. A reasonable base level of reliability to begin with
2. When it does go wrong, the cause of problem is usually fairly obvious
3. Good parts availability and reasonable prices
4. Not a total b
d to work on.5. Good online support community and how-to guides etc.
At the moment, my experience is with an MG ZT (surprisingly good for all the above) and a BMW Z4 - less good for all the above.
Generally (although not universally) I've found longitudinal engined cars are better for access than transverse ones. I think it's also true to say that small engines in engine bays designed to take big engines tend to be good.
Having said that, from an engine point of view my Elise (which meets neither of the above criteria) is very good to work on. Access is decent enough for small jobs with the clam on, and for bigger jobs you can remove the rear clam-shell and you've just got the engine sitting in front of you on its mounts with no bodywork around it at all. Unfortunately non-engine tasks can be a right pig!
Having said that, from an engine point of view my Elise (which meets neither of the above criteria) is very good to work on. Access is decent enough for small jobs with the clam on, and for bigger jobs you can remove the rear clam-shell and you've just got the engine sitting in front of you on its mounts with no bodywork around it at all. Unfortunately non-engine tasks can be a right pig!
Rotary Potato said:
With the caveat that I've never owned anything less than 10 years old, I've always found Fords to be surprisingly well thought out from a home maintenance point of view.
Simple touches, like being able to remove the headlights on a mark 3 Mondeo with very basic tools and about 45 seconds of your time. Changing bulbs was a complete breeze. When compared to some cars where you need to go in via the inner wheel arch liner and need 6 double jointed fingers to change a bulb, it was a simple, well engineered solution.
You've not changed a bulb on the NSF of a mk.1 Ford Focus then have you? You have a choice of removing bits and pieces until you remove the entire headlight unit, or losing an hour of your time and all of the skin from your hands Simple touches, like being able to remove the headlights on a mark 3 Mondeo with very basic tools and about 45 seconds of your time. Changing bulbs was a complete breeze. When compared to some cars where you need to go in via the inner wheel arch liner and need 6 double jointed fingers to change a bulb, it was a simple, well engineered solution.
This was my sister-in-law's car, I told her to take it to Halfords next time.
Bennet said:
What makes and models would PH members recommend for manageable home maintenance?
My personal idea of what makes a car good in this area are as follows:
1. A reasonable base level of reliability to begin with
2. When it does go wrong, the cause of problem is usually fairly obvious
3. Good parts availability and reasonable prices
4. Not a total bd to work on.
5. Good online support community and how-to guides etc.
At the moment, my experience is with an MG ZT (surprisingly good for all the above) and a BMW Z4 - less good for all the above.
MG - mend and make do ownersMy personal idea of what makes a car good in this area are as follows:
1. A reasonable base level of reliability to begin with
2. When it does go wrong, the cause of problem is usually fairly obvious
3. Good parts availability and reasonable prices
4. Not a total b
d to work on.5. Good online support community and how-to guides etc.
At the moment, my experience is with an MG ZT (surprisingly good for all the above) and a BMW Z4 - less good for all the above.
BMW Z4 - off to the main dealer for a battery change
1) nearly all cars are acceptable IMO
2) Diagnostic tools make this easier now, but for me older the better here, newer cars can have odd problems that later in their lives are just one of the known issues that many people have had the stress to over come that makes your life now much easier! (often even parts made to get round it (anecdotal here is a BMW 645, huge water transfer pipe issues, early days meant thousands at a main dealer now a few hundred fix with the creation of a telescopic replacement pipe).
3) Something sold in it's thousands and/or with a manufacturer with known good parts support
4) Generally old again, just look at under bonnet space over time.
5) A slight counter to the above argument is that often the best support communities are for those with models with known issues. Autodoc does a lot of videos for mundane stuff
I'd add 6) Rust, still the main bug bear of a home DIY'er, few of us have decent welding/panel beating skills and often a car needs extensive work if it gets to the stage of patching sills etc.
I like old Lexus and Toyota's for the record.
I've found late 90s-early 2000s BMWs really nice to work on, much easier than similar era VWs where there never seems to be enough room to get a tool on a fastener or you end up spending ages fighting corroded bolts.
Loads of online knowledge for them as there are still lots of them on the road in the USA where there's still lots of people willing and able to work on their own cars.
Easy to get hold of diagnostic software for them too that will run on a laptop with a USB cable.
Loads of online knowledge for them as there are still lots of them on the road in the USA where there's still lots of people willing and able to work on their own cars.
Easy to get hold of diagnostic software for them too that will run on a laptop with a USB cable.
Going out on a limb here... and subjectively may fail 1)
Discovery 3
First car I've done proper work on since my early 60's beetle 20 years ago. Nothing has been impossible at home on axle stands so far ... (usual servicing to replacement control arms, air shocks, arb bushes etc)
Reasonable parts prices, great community of knowledge out there too
Discovery 3
First car I've done proper work on since my early 60's beetle 20 years ago. Nothing has been impossible at home on axle stands so far ... (usual servicing to replacement control arms, air shocks, arb bushes etc)
Reasonable parts prices, great community of knowledge out there too
lufbramatt said:
I've found late 90s-early 2000s BMWs really nice to work on.
I was about to post similar - my E39 BMW was really nice to work on, especially from a servicing point of view, where everything was nicely laid out and accessible. Suspension work was also relatively easy.
You used to be able to get onto TIS without a subscription which the E39 was just recent enough to be on, and real oem was great for part numbers.
I'm sure I will find out how nice my Disco 4 is to work on... I've done servicing bits which aren't too bad, but other stuff looks quite scary. That said I might have just downloaded all 5000 pages of the official workshop manual...
My BMW E34 is reasonably nice to work on, an added bonus is that having mostly steel suspension components and knuckles, it can be t
tted with a hammer. Servicing also not too bad. Coupled with the fact it just won't die helps. Danns said:
Going out on a limb here... and subjectively may fail 1)
Discovery 3
First car I've done proper work on since my early 60's beetle 20 years ago. Nothing has been impossible at home on axle stands so far ... (usual servicing to replacement control arms, air shocks, arb bushes etc)
Reasonable parts prices, great community of knowledge out there too
Ah you might have just answered my question on the D4 Discovery 3
First car I've done proper work on since my early 60's beetle 20 years ago. Nothing has been impossible at home on axle stands so far ... (usual servicing to replacement control arms, air shocks, arb bushes etc)
Reasonable parts prices, great community of knowledge out there too
Certainly second the knowledge base - it's phenomenal Triumph Man said:
I was about to post similar - my E39 BMW was really nice to work on, especially from a servicing point of view, where everything was nicely laid out and accessible.
Suspension work was also relatively easy.
You used to be able to get onto TIS without a subscription which the E39 was just recent enough to be on, and real oem was great for part numbers.
I'm sure I will find out how nice my Disco 4 is to work on... I've done servicing bits which aren't too bad, but other stuff looks quite scary. That said I might have just downloaded all 5000 pages of the official workshop manual...
Ditch the manual and head to disco3 / disco4 forums (I imagine you already have) ... I have it on good authority that the manual was written by a team instructed to write it, but they weren't allowed to remove anything in the process. There's lot of unnecessary work in the manual and everything isn't a body off job!Suspension work was also relatively easy.
You used to be able to get onto TIS without a subscription which the E39 was just recent enough to be on, and real oem was great for part numbers.
I'm sure I will find out how nice my Disco 4 is to work on... I've done servicing bits which aren't too bad, but other stuff looks quite scary. That said I might have just downloaded all 5000 pages of the official workshop manual...
Autel Ap200 code reader for £50 will do 99.9% of what the more expensive one does too.
ETA - Cross post going on there!
Edited by Danns on Tuesday 6th December 15:57
Anything without a cambelt, IMHO. Or a non-interference engine if it snaps. MX-5 is one of the few 'sporty' cars this falls into. That sais, some cars have poor reputation on engine cam chains. 
Depending on how old a car you're thinking, cars with active body control (Jags / Mercs, but not all models) would be out for me for home maintenance. I would say ABS is just waiting to go wrong but almost all cars for the las 10 yrs pus have that now. I had a traction control / ABS pump issue on a Suzuki splash that would have cost more than the car's value to replace!
I have a 47 year old car too and I could do just about everything on it, it's that basic. But a car that old may not be in consideration!
Depending on how old a car you're thinking, cars with active body control (Jags / Mercs, but not all models) would be out for me for home maintenance. I would say ABS is just waiting to go wrong but almost all cars for the las 10 yrs pus have that now. I had a traction control / ABS pump issue on a Suzuki splash that would have cost more than the car's value to replace!
I have a 47 year old car too and I could do just about everything on it, it's that basic. But a car that old may not be in consideration!
I swapped an engine in my girlfriend's E36 over a long weekend (which included driving to get the 'new' engine) having never worked on the car before.
Aside from the little bd clip that holds the shift arm to the gearbox and took about 30 minutes to unclip, everything came apart and went back together like lego, nothing torqued into oblivion, no awkward nuts to undo or get to etc. With better weather and no deadline it would have been really enjoyable.
I'd say an E36 fills all 5 of your criteria
Aside from the little b
d clip that holds the shift arm to the gearbox and took about 30 minutes to unclip, everything came apart and went back together like lego, nothing torqued into oblivion, no awkward nuts to undo or get to etc. With better weather and no deadline it would have been really enjoyable.I'd say an E36 fills all 5 of your criteria
Danns said:
Triumph Man said:
I was about to post similar - my E39 BMW was really nice to work on, especially from a servicing point of view, where everything was nicely laid out and accessible.
Suspension work was also relatively easy.
You used to be able to get onto TIS without a subscription which the E39 was just recent enough to be on, and real oem was great for part numbers.
I'm sure I will find out how nice my Disco 4 is to work on... I've done servicing bits which aren't too bad, but other stuff looks quite scary. That said I might have just downloaded all 5000 pages of the official workshop manual...
Ditch the manual and head to disco3 / disco4 forums (I imagine you already have) ... I have it on good authority that the manual was written by a team instructed to write it, but they weren't allowed to remove anything in the process. There's lot of unnecessary work in the manual and everything isn't a body off job!Suspension work was also relatively easy.
You used to be able to get onto TIS without a subscription which the E39 was just recent enough to be on, and real oem was great for part numbers.
I'm sure I will find out how nice my Disco 4 is to work on... I've done servicing bits which aren't too bad, but other stuff looks quite scary. That said I might have just downloaded all 5000 pages of the official workshop manual...
Autel Ap200 code reader for £50 will do 99.9% of what the more expensive one does too.
ETA - Cross post going on there!
Edited by Danns on Tuesday 6th December 15:57
Toyotas generally are very reliable and designed to be worked on, Subaru too, though in both cases you'll be looking out for high quality aftermarket parts when needed.
Best models for the home mechanic made before the late noughties in my humble, you can go much later build with these two makes than many others due to that conservative Japanese ethos, ie if it aint broke don't fix it.
Thing is like all cars, look after them, too many people think Toyotas can be neglected, sadly they don't take kindly to it but look after them and you'll struggle to find anything more dependable or easy to work on...get Techstream on an old laptop and you're laughing.
Toyota hybrid drive too has proved to be spectacularly robust over very high mileages, hence why taxi drivers snap them up like hot cakes.
Best models for the home mechanic made before the late noughties in my humble, you can go much later build with these two makes than many others due to that conservative Japanese ethos, ie if it aint broke don't fix it.
Thing is like all cars, look after them, too many people think Toyotas can be neglected, sadly they don't take kindly to it but look after them and you'll struggle to find anything more dependable or easy to work on...get Techstream on an old laptop and you're laughing.
Toyota hybrid drive too has proved to be spectacularly robust over very high mileages, hence why taxi drivers snap them up like hot cakes.
sixor8 said:
Anything without a cambelt, IMHO. Or a non-interference engine if it snaps. MX-5 is one of the few 'sporty' cars this falls into. That sais, some cars have poor reputation on engine cam chains.
Depending on how old a car you're thinking, cars with active body control (Jags / Mercs, but not all models) would be out for me for home maintenance. I would say ABS is just waiting to go wrong but almost all cars for the las 10 yrs pus have that now. I had a traction control / ABS pump issue on a Suzuki splash that would have cost more than the car's value to replace!
I have a 47 year old car too and I could do just about everything on it, it's that basic. But a car that old may not be in consideration!
I don't have a problem with cambelts, though some are harder to change than others: My son's Fiesta was a pain because I struggled to get the crankshaft bolt undone (admittedly without the official locking tool), then had to measure the bolt that came out so I could buy the correct replacement. My shed Ka belt was much easier and done in an afternoon. Older Ford CVH and Pinto engines I could do in an hour or less.Depending on how old a car you're thinking, cars with active body control (Jags / Mercs, but not all models) would be out for me for home maintenance. I would say ABS is just waiting to go wrong but almost all cars for the las 10 yrs pus have that now. I had a traction control / ABS pump issue on a Suzuki splash that would have cost more than the car's value to replace!
I have a 47 year old car too and I could do just about everything on it, it's that basic. But a car that old may not be in consideration!
Chain driven camshafts often involve the engine being lifted out, so aren't really what I'd be looking at since I'd have to do that job on the drive (my project car still in the garage).
I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised at how easy working on my wife's Mercedes C200 has been, though I've had to take off quite a few plastic panels to get to certain bits, easy enough now I know how they are fitted and where to undo the fixings. I already had a code reader for use with her previous SLK too, so that makes fault finding easier too should I need to.
Regardless, these days it doesn't seem to take much effort to do a search on Youtube and find someone has posted a video of how to do a particular job. Beats waiting for your 'knowledgeable mate' to come round to help like in the old days and often they'll mention special tools, or work rounds/size of sockets, etc that you might realise you need to buy before you start the job.
I'd chose a car based on other criteria really, though I tend to do a search for 'car X known problems' before I buy anything, having been burnt before with the SLK and it's leaking roof and that we bought one in solid red paint which turns out to be known for micro-blistering...
Triumph Man said:
lufbramatt said:
I've found late 90s-early 2000s BMWs really nice to work on.
I was about to post similar - my E39 BMW was really nice to work on, especially from a servicing point of view, where everything was nicely laid out and accessible. Suspension work was also relatively easy.
You used to be able to get onto TIS without a subscription which the E39 was just recent enough to be on, and real oem was great for part numbers.
I'm sure I will find out how nice my Disco 4 is to work on... I've done servicing bits which aren't too bad, but other stuff looks quite scary. That said I might have just downloaded all 5000 pages of the official workshop manual.
My BMW E34 is reasonably nice to work on, an added bonus is that having mostly steel suspension components and knuckles, it can be t
tted with a hammer. Servicing also not too bad. Coupled with the fact it just won't die helps. I find my 987 cayman pretty easy to work on-brake pads and discs are very easy,fitted a new exhaust-again easy-(but the previous owner did the manifold/ cat flange bolts at some point in the past thankfully!)
Changing bulbs is super easy-just insert a tool and remove the whole headlight in less than ten seconds!
I agree with the poster above about seized components underneath though-trying to remove the old drop links was a bd of a job-lots of copper slip will mean it’s easy next time though.
Most fords I’ve owned are ok to work on, and I’ve done plenty of work to my R53 cooper S,again all straight forward.
Definitely helps being able to see stuff being done on YouTube-beats the old Haynes book of lies hands down
Changing bulbs is super easy-just insert a tool and remove the whole headlight in less than ten seconds!
I agree with the poster above about seized components underneath though-trying to remove the old drop links was a b
d of a job-lots of copper slip will mean it’s easy next time though.Most fords I’ve owned are ok to work on, and I’ve done plenty of work to my R53 cooper S,again all straight forward.
Definitely helps being able to see stuff being done on YouTube-beats the old Haynes book of lies hands down
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