Guidance needed! Retaining car write off

[SpartaThisIs]

My car has been declared uneconomical to repair, 2014 white Porsche Cayman 3.4S, and I have been offered £36k in payment, I've stated I'm not happy with the valuation given and provided screenshots of similar vehicles from the time of the incident (September), these average £41,500.

The retained value, with a Cat N marker, they have given for the car is £17,760, 50% of the settlement offer. Is this a good figure or, as I believe, too high? If it was a Cash in Lieu payment without a marker it would be a bit more palatable.

The repair estimate was £26,500 inc VAT. It is minor fire damage in the cabin at the side of the drivers seat, wiring damage is minimal (a single short piece) but the Porsche centre suggested a new wiring harness. The steering wheel suffered very, very minor scorching on the lower rear (can't even feel it), the seat needs to be replaced, the driver side carpet & some trim parts were burnt. Labour is 80% harness replacement but parts cost are crazy and a potential 6 months wait.

The car has been judged to be in good condition inside & out, fully maintained, all recalls done and a current advisory free MOT, the assessor used Glass's guide for the £36k figure.

They have so far racked up storage fees, strip down costs & 2 assessor fees of approximately £7k, I think I'm suffering because of that but their incompetence in not chasing things up has resulted in a 3 month wait from first reporting the incident, hence pretty massive storage fees.

The fire was judged to have started due to a couple of butane lighters jammed into the seat rail, I don't smoke and have had the car 4 years. Cleaned out weekly and never saw them.
Any advice would be appreciated. I've attached a couple of pics.

Edited by SpartaThisIs on Friday 16th December 17:11

Edited by SpartaThisIs on Saturday 17th December 07:37

[SpartaThisIs]

[GranpaB]

I'll ask, but how did it catch fire??

Seems very odd and quite rare IMO.

[Rockettvr]

2 things
1 £26500 to repair that - jeez I know Porsche parts are mental but ….
2 butane lighters are pretty robust - try and break one !!! And even if leaking you still need a source of ignition (a spark or very high temperature) to cause a fire

[SpartaThisIs]

GranpaB said:

I'll ask, but how did it catch fire??

Seems very odd and quite rare IMO.

As I posted, a butane lighter. The forensic engineer found another case of it happening, a crack in the plastic case and static. The car had just gone through, 10 minutes before, the 101 check for extended Porsche warranty and everything was good. I was literally 100 yds out of the centre on a one way system, got to a bus stop 50 yds across the road from the centre and flames shot up. Luckily someone stopped and had a fire extinguisher hence little damage. 3 minutes later and I would have been on the motorway and it would have been burnt out. So no, not a deliberate act.

I've told everyone I know to check down the inside of both driver and passenger seats, lots of lighters found.

[SpartaThisIs]

Rockettvr said:

2 things
1 £26500 to repair that - jeez I know Porsche parts are mental but ….
2 butane lighters are pretty robust - try and break one !!! And even if leaking you still need a source of ignition (a spark or very high temperature) to cause a fire

Just what I thought, I have an explanation that I think is more likely but I can't prove anything, see my other reply to a comment. The 2nd assessor stated he believed the seat moving could easily have fractured the case and a static build up in the nylon carpet set it off. I'm skeptical, but I can't say more on that.

£8500 for a seat! Made to order in Germany, they don't hold stock I was told, which makes sense if you think of all the variations available plus I believe the latest 718 seats are a slightly different rail fitting so it would be a special order. Porsche said 3 to 6 months wait time, take into account a courtesy car paid for by the insurance company and that figure would rise dramatically.

I can get a pair of GT3 carbon seats for £10,500 :/

Edited by SpartaThisIs on Friday 16th December 20:28

Edited by SpartaThisIs on Friday 16th December 20:30

[Mr Tidy]

That seems crazy, but insurers seem to be very "repair averse" these days.

If there is any chance you may want to keep it make sure you don't let Copart take it away!

[SpartaThisIs]

Mr Tidy said:

That seems crazy, but insurers seem to be very "repair averse" these days.

If there is any chance you may want to keep it make sure you don't let Copart take it away!

Its being stored at the Porsche Centre, I've told them they will be liable if it gets removed without my written permission, they've confirmed its going nowhere until the storage costs have been settled. The insurance company have also been put on notice that it is my car until the money is in my account. I do want to keep it but need some advice re initial post.

I think its parts availability in general and delay because of the car model itself.

[SS427 Camaro]

If it were mine, I would be leaning on the ins co for a figure closer to £41 and let them keep the car.
Unless of course, you are hands on and wanted to repair the car yourself. A leather Recarro drivers seat would look superb and is readily available @ reasonable £ cost.
I have repaired a fair few lightly bodily damaged cars, but fire damage ( particularly to the interior has always made me run a mile )

The only fire damaged car that I have repaired was a gorgeous black metalic 1980 Porsche 911 SC, which had suffered from vandal fire damage to the nose, front boot floor and part of the left door. When I reluctantly put it up for sale ( in early 2004 ) for £6,000, most buyers were put off by knowing that it had suffered fire damage, with the exception of one young enthusiast buyer.

[Draxindustries1]

Have the car back. Its an easy straight forward repair. A used centre console and a pair of seats plus a carpet set . You'll likely have to buy the carpet from Porsche but the other parts should be reasonably easy to source used. 987 seats will fit, you just need to swop the runners over.
Your ins company pay you circa £20k , you repair the car for circa £5K.

Edit- only an example.
Ebay- 284567313248 pair of seats for £500.

Design 911 , centre middle console £280. They keep the sides of the console and cup holder ect too.
https://www.design911.com/Porsche/Boxster-986-987-...

Edited by Draxindustries1 on Friday 16th December 23:00

Edited by Draxindustries1 on Friday 16th December 23:06

Edited by Draxindustries1 on Friday 16th December 23:10

[Smurfsarepeopletoo]

A friend once set my car on fire while repairing it, only the boot, had to replace all the boot trim and back seats, but if you want to do a proper job, you are gonna want to strip everything out of the interior and clean the shell, the smoke gets everywhere, its under all the trim panels, roof lining, id also suggest getting the seats all professionally cleaned, the change all of the cabin filters, and clean the ac system. If your repairing it yourself, your gonna want to use a mask and gloves as melted plastic can release some nasty chemicals, which is why insurers will automatically write off a car damaged by fire.

[SpartaThisIs]

Draxindustries1 said:

Have the car back. Its an easy straight forward repair. A used centre console and a pair of seats plus a carpet set . You'll likely have to buy the carpet from Porsche but the other parts should be reasonably easy to source used. 987 seats will fit, you just need to swop the runners over.
Your ins company pay you circa £20k , you repair the car for circa £5K.

Edit- only an example.
Ebay- 284567313248 pair of seats for £500.

Design 911 , centre middle console £280. They keep the sides of the console and cup holder ect too.
https://www.design911.com/Porsche/Boxster-986-987-...

Edited by Draxindustries1 on Friday 16th December 23:00

Edited by Draxindustries1 on Friday 16th December 23:06

Edited by Draxindustries1 on Friday 16th December 23:10

Thanks for the 987 info. The central console just has 3 trim panels damaged, carpets for sale on ebay, been offered a matching seat for £250 (in good condition). Porsche center mechanic said he would rewire 1 wire, 10cm, that looks like it might have damage. Its the 50% of payment that I need to know if its the norm. Luckily there's a very similar car currently on Copart Auctions, they use them, its retail value is shown as £47,750!

Yes, £41,500k was the figure I had in mind. I screenshot every similar car the day after the incident, and many since, worked out by colour, got an average and then averaged out across all cars available at the time nationwide (17). I've done the same for early December & this week, the same average for both. I excluded private sales and the highest and lowest advertised as they were odd outliers. They've said 'that's not the selling price', ignoring the fact its a pretty sought after car and they sell pretty quickly with little reduction in advertised price.

[Belle427]

Really tough decision, if you were hands on and could do it yourself it’s got to be worth repairing but if not then it’s probably better to let it go.

[SpartaThisIs]

SS427 Camaro said:

If it were mine, I would be leaning on the ins co for a figure closer to £41 and let them keep the car.
Unless of course, you are hands on and wanted to repair the car yourself. A leather Recarro drivers seat would look superb and is readily available @ reasonable £ cost.
I have repaired a fair few lightly bodily damaged cars, but fire damage ( particularly to the interior has always made me run a mile )

The only fire damaged car that I have repaired was a gorgeous black metalic 1980 Porsche 911 SC, which had suffered from vandal fire damage to the nose, front boot floor and part of the left door. When I reluctantly put it up for sale ( in early 2004 ) for £6,000, most buyers were put off by knowing that it had suffered fire damage, with the exception of one young enthusiast buyer.

I've cross replied by accident with another post and yours.

£41k is spot on as to what I worked out, see my other post. The wiring loom has been put down to be replaced because 1 wire has a 10cm scorching on it, no break or melting. The service manger said they can't repair and must replace, he said it would take nothing to splice a new piece in, its readily accessible and an easy fix.

I don't see anything I can't repair/replace myself, done light work on cars for years including welding, so the repair doesn't worry me. Its the 50% I need advice on, is that the norm or is that the hoped for price at auction? On the figure they want a buyer would pay another £1600 on top taking the car to close to £20k at auction. Spending say £3k to repair takes it to £23k, I'm not sure how much reduction in value Cat N cars suffer but if say 30% there's little or no profit in it at that price for someone.

I'm leaning towards, I'll pay that but don't put a Cat marker on it, which they can do. They refuse to repair or give me the repair costs to get it repaired.

[SpartaThisIs]

Smurfsarepeopletoo said:

A friend once set my car on fire while repairing it, only the boot, had to replace all the boot trim and back seats, but if you want to do a proper job, you are gonna want to strip everything out of the interior and clean the shell, the smoke gets everywhere, its under all the trim panels, roof lining, id also suggest getting the seats all professionally cleaned, the change all of the cabin filters, and clean the ac system. If your repairing it yourself, your gonna want to use a mask and gloves as melted plastic can release some nasty chemicals, which is why insurers will automatically write off a car damaged by fire.

I know about the smoke, I had to open both windows and drive with my head out It really was minimal, there's barely any smell (the burnt parts have been in the car for 3 months now) and little smoke dust in the interior. I'm going to see it again on Monday to have another look. The assessors report states very minor damage but the parts cost and a potential 6 month wait pushed it to write off.

[SpartaThisIs]

Belle427 said:

Really tough decision, if you were hands on and could do it yourself it’s got to be worth repairing but if not then it’s probably better to let it go.

I've no problem repairing it, its mainly straight replacement, its the amount they want. Its a fantastic car with nothing wrong with it, I'd just had the front bumper resprayed too as they are terrible for stone chipping. £500!

[Belle427]

I see some of these wrecked cars being repaired on you tube and the values seem all over the place.
The M5 Mat Armstrong is repairing was purchased for £32k and has a rough value non categorised of £60k.
Repair costs estimated at £10k?
It is eye opening the figures involved, not much help really but the £17k figure would seem low to me for that damage.
Sorry if it’s not much help I’m just generally interested in this myself as it’s a car I’d consider buying if I saw it, I don’t repair cars but it seems a good easy fix for someone who wants a keeper.
I’m guessing fire damage is seen as a very off putting previous problem though.

[SpartaThisIs]

Belle427 said:

I see some of these wrecked cars being repaired on you tube and the values seem all over the place.
The M5 Mat Armstrong is repairing was purchased for £32k and has a rough value non categorised of £60k.
Repair costs estimated at £10k?
It is eye opening the figures involved, not much help really but the £17k figure would seem low to me for that damage.
Sorry if it’s not much help I’m just generally interested in this myself as it’s a car I’d consider buying if I saw it, I don’t repair cars but it seems a good easy fix for someone who wants a keeper.
I’m guessing fire damage is seen as a very off putting previous problem though.

I watch Matt too, very interesting. His 718 Cayman build was good. He spent, £25k+ repairing it & £18.5k buying it. Book price is probably £54k, the problem there is that they give the retail value of a non damaged, non recorded car, I've read value can be 20-40% for Cat cars. That would mean he's down at least £5k straight up. The M5 would also be a loss taking into account Cat marker devaluation.

The YouTubers fail to point out that as a business they can write off all the costs as a business expense, so Matt spending crazy money looks good but for you or I would be crazy. His main business is content creation so the car, spares, labour etc can be claimed back, if he sells the car its offset against that.

As other comments have stated, the fire damage is off putting when you eventually come to sell it, it would reduce the price by the higher of 20-40% in my mind. 40% of £36k = £14.4k, take that off and you have £21.6k.

[fourstardan]

SpartaThisIs said:

My car has been declared uneconomical to repair, 2014 white Porsche Cayman 3.4S, and I have been offered £36k in payment, I've stated I'm not happy with the valuation given and provided screenshots of similar vehicles from the time of the incident (September), these average £41,500.

The retained value, with a Cat N marker, they have given for the car is £17,760, 50% of the settlement offer. Is this a good figure or, as I believe, too high? If it was a Cash in Lieu payment without a marker it would be a bit more palatable.

The repair estimate was £26,500 inc VAT. It is minor fire damage in the cabin at the side of the drivers seat, wiring damage is minimal (a single short piece) but the Porsche centre suggested a new wiring harness. The steering wheel suffered very, very minor scorching on the lower rear (can't even feel it), the seat needs to be replaced, the driver side carpet & some trim parts were burnt. Labour is 80% harness replacement but parts cost are crazy and a potential 6 months wait.

The car has been judged to be in good condition inside & out, fully maintained, all recalls done and a current advisory free MOT, the assessor used Glass's guide for the £36k figure.

They have so far racked up storage fees, strip down costs & 2 assessor fees of approximately £7k, I think I'm suffering because of that but their incompetence in not chasing things up has resulted in a 3 month wait from first reporting the incident, hence pretty massive storage fees.

The fire was judged to have started due to a couple of butane lighters jammed into the seat rail, I don't smoke and have had the car 4 years. Cleaned out weekly and never saw them.
Any advice would be appreciated. I've attached a couple of pics.

Edited by SpartaThisIs on Friday 16th December 17:11

Edited by SpartaThisIs on Saturday 17th December 07:37

Fking hell that cause is scary.

Edited by fourstardan on Saturday 17th December 09:46

[SpartaThisIs]

It would have been if I'd gone another 200 yds onto the motorway, the flames were on the seat belt release but luckily not too intense. As I said in a reply, check your cars. I don't smoke and had spent 2 hours cleaning the car the day before and didn't see any lighters, or in the past. The mechanic who took the seat out said you couldn't see them as they had jammed right under the rail.

My thoughts after were what if I'd parked up at home, got out and the garage/house caught alight.