Black box insurance Question

[andyxxx]

I have two daughters and myself that share the same car.
They both have their own insurance.
The eldest daughter has been driving four years and has full no claims and does not have or want a black box (she hated it for the two years she had it)
The youngest daughter is taking her test on Wednesday and assuming she passes will again have her own insurance (increased from provisional insurance)
This will probably involve having a black box fitted as it significantly lowers the premium.

It seems unfair that the youngest could be penalised if the eldest (or myself) speeded or drove dangerously.

So my question is:
Is there any company that insures the car with the black box, but the telematics are only enabled (perhaps via an app) when the youngest daughter is driving?

Many thanks

[POIDH]

We just use an insurer who doesn't use a black box.

Admiral Multicar - insure three vehicles, all full license holders on all three. Those learning or year one only insured on the small, cheap car.

I trialled an app and found it penalised us because:
- early start one day to the airport for me
- use of county roads (wife is a peripatetic teacher, I travel the Highlands, we live at the end of the motorway)
- we've a couple of big roundabouts locally. They require a 'confident' approach to getting out, and it marked down every time we went around it. 75 throbbing horses were deemed too quick...


For the record: my eldest was given two years NCB from when he drove our cars, so saving £900 on his own insurance when he bought a vehicle...

[LordFlathead]

The black box has nothing to do with good driving or safety, it is merely a way to generate extra revenue if you "break the rules".

Plenty of other insurers.

[andyxxx]

LordFlathead said:

The black box has nothing to do with good driving or safety, it is merely a way to generate extra revenue if you "break the rules".

Plenty of other insurers.

I'm not sure I agree with that.
I'm sure it at least makes young drivers consider their speed.
There are plenty of other insurers - but are you sure they compete price wise?

The eldest had the black box for the first two years of her driving and never had any problems whatsoever.

If nobody can point me to an insurer as requested in my OP I will run several comparisons.
Certainly last time I did the comparisons for the eldest, premiums without the black box were all about double.

[Ussrcossack]

Who is the named driver on this shared car.

I'm worried you might be over insuring fronting or for knows what, building up ncb?

[OldSkoolRS]

I had similar concerns as we are insured on the car we bought our son and I'd hate to get him in trouble due to my own (or wifes) driving. Turned out that we didn't drive it once he had it insured as by then I'd bought a shed for us to use locally. However, just to say that after 3 months they asked for it back, so it's not for the whole year anyway.

In his case it was £850 for no box or £650 with (23 year old, just passed his test at the time). I couldn't get close with another firm quoting without a box, so he was happy to go along with it. I guess that if others are driving then they'll have to reign it in on the understanding it will impact him if they drive in a manner to cause concern to the 'box'.

Like others though it sounds complicated if multiple drivers use the same car as I understood you couldn't have one car covered by more than one insurance policy (though other drivers might be allowed to drive it third party if they insure another car for example).

[andyxxx]

Ussrcossack said:

Who is the named driver on this shared car.

I'm worried you might be over insuring fronting or for knows what, building up ncb?

My eldest is named on the log book and has her own fully comp insurance on the shared car.

The youngest has her own fully comp insurance on a provisional licence and can only drive the shared car car with a over 25 full licence holder present (The insurance company are aware the shared car is registered to the eldest and insured separately by both of them)

I have my own insurance on a separate car and can also drive the vehicle in question via my car insurance

[Dashnine]

andyxxx said:

Ussrcossack said:

Who is the named driver on this shared car.

I'm worried you might be over insuring fronting or for knows what, building up ncb?

My eldest is named on the log book and has her own fully comp insurance on the shared car.

The youngest has her own fully comp insurance on a provisional licence and can only drive the shared car car with a over 25 full licence holder present (The insurance company are aware the shared car is registered to the eldest and insured separately by both of them)

I have my own insurance on a separate car and can also drive the vehicle in question via my car insurance

I didn’t think you could have two fully comp insurance policies on the same car? Which one pays when it’s stolen or goes up in flames, damage while parked, etc.?

I’ve had letters previously from a new insurer thinking another policy was still in force on the same car.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

You can't pick and choose who the box tracks. That's the point. Two reasons, first you could 'fiddle' who us driving which defeats the point of the box and secondly, two policies on one car? Not sure that is legal/acceptable.

[Monkeylegend]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

You can't pick and choose who the box tracks. That's the point. Two reasons, first you could 'fiddle' who us driving which defeats the point of the box and secondly, two policies on one car? Not sure that is legal/acceptable.

.

https://www.google.com/search?client=avast-a-1&amp...

[andyxxx]

Dashnine said:

andyxxx said:

Ussrcossack said:

Who is the named driver on this shared car.

I'm worried you might be over insuring fronting or for knows what, building up ncb?

My eldest is named on the log book and has her own fully comp insurance on the shared car.

The youngest has her own fully comp insurance on a provisional licence and can only drive the shared car car with a over 25 full licence holder present (The insurance company are aware the shared car is registered to the eldest and insured separately by both of them)

I have my own insurance on a separate car and can also drive the vehicle in question via my car insurance

I didn’t think you could have two fully comp insurance policies on the same car? Which one pays when it’s stolen or goes up in flames, damage while parked, etc.?

I’ve had letters previously from a new insurer thinking another policy was still in force on the same car.

I will check this tomorrow.
It certainly was not my intention to mislead the insurance company and we certainly informed them it was owned and registered by the eldest (but I can’t remember if we were asked if it was insured elsewhere.)

Hopefully it won’t make any difference by Wednesday, because if she passes the provisional insurance is void anyway.

[andyxxx]

Monkeylegend said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

You can't pick and choose who the box tracks. That's the point. Two reasons, first you could 'fiddle' who us driving which defeats the point of the box and secondly, two policies on one car? Not sure that is legal/acceptable.

.

https://www.google.com/search?client=avast-a-1&amp...

Thank you Monkeylegend. All I wanted to do was ensure the second child was insured while learning - so it would seem I did the right thing, all be it (perhaps) complicated had we needed to make a claim.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

LordFlathead said:

The black box has nothing to do with good driving or safety, it is merely a way to generate extra revenue if you "break the rules".

What a load of utter tripe. Some actual facts rather than the usual "in order to show the world what a motoring enthusiast I am I have to jump on the anti BB bandwagon even though i know absolutely nothing about the subject".

1. Most drivers with a BB drive within the rules, because they know they are being monitored, hence never pay any extra money.
2. The saving can. for some young drivers, be substantial. Like £500+. Seems a daft way of insurers generating extra revenue, by giving people a £500 discount.
3. Across the industry, insurers report a 45% reduction in accident costs for young drivers with a BB over young drivers without. In short, they have fewer accidents, and the accidents they do have happen at a lower speed, and thus cost the insurer less. Which is why the insurers can offer the discounted premium in the first place. So can you explain how a 45% reduction in claims costs due to fewer claims and less serious claims, is not a safety issue?

[christurbo]

andyxxx said:

I have two daughters and myself that share the same car.
They both have their own insurance.
The eldest daughter has been driving four years and has full no claims and does not have or want a black box (she hated it for the two years she had it)
The youngest daughter is taking her test on Wednesday and assuming she passes will again have her own insurance (increased from provisional insurance)
This will probably involve having a black box fitted as it significantly lowers the premium.

It seems unfair that the youngest could be penalised if the eldest (or myself) speeded or drove dangerously.

So my question is:
Is there any company that insures the car with the black box, but the telematics are only enabled (perhaps via an app) when the youngest daughter is driving?

Many thanks

Marmalade Insurance - it’s via an app so will be tracked when she is driving.

[SuperCharged V6]

My son has a black box with Hasting Direct, in theory it can be turned off if I drive it, but we never have, if I ever use it, which is rare, I just drive legally and gently to keep his %'s up. No benefit to me in the long term of reducing his scores

[Neddy Sea Goon]

Marmalade - black box, and each driver insured has the app on their phone, which connects via Bluetooth depending on who's driving

Each driver then gets their own ratings / scores

[RicksAlfas]

My son's black box policy through Hastings Direct links to his phone, so anyone else can drive the car without activating the black box.

I've been quite impressed with it. The scoring system is not too onerous and receiving messages saying "Well done, you got 95% on that drive" is a confidence booster for a new driver. Incidentally, the black box is a small (30x30x10mm) grey unit which self adhesives to the windscreen. No wires or anything. Very discrete.

[ConnectionError]

RicksAlfas said:

My son's black box policy through Hastings Direct links to his phone, so anyone else can drive the car without activating the black box.

I've been quite impressed with it. The scoring system is not too onerous and receiving messages saying "Well done, you got 95% on that drive" is a confidence booster for a new driver. Incidentally, the black box is a small (30x30x10mm) grey unit which self adhesives to the windscreen. No wires or anything. Very discrete.

Interesting, and I am looking at the same for the day my son passes his test.

I guess the black box is bypassed by "forgetting" the phone or turning it off?

I also guess that there will be something in the T&C's to cover that in the event of an accident?

[RicksAlfas]

ConnectionError said:

Interesting, and I am looking at the same for the day my son passes his test.

I guess the black box is bypassed by "forgetting" the phone or turning it off?

I also guess that there will be something in the T&C's to cover that in the event of an accident?

There is an app on the phone which links by Bluetooth. It's the driver's responsibility to make sure it's working. Not sure what happens if you go for a drive without your phone, but I put this in the highly unlikely category of a teenager not having their phone with them!

Interestingly, my son was away at Uni and didn't take his car. Hastings rang to check everything was OK as no drives had been recorded for over 30 days. When he explained he was away they said it was fine and they would make a note on their system.

[andyxxx]

Neddy and Rick - Thank you

That was what I was hoping (I had heard Marmalade did it, but couldn’t find it on their website. I will certainly explore Marmelade and Hastings (if she passes on Wednesday)