Will driving licences need updated for EV's?

[300bhp/ton]

As EV's are gaining popularity, it got me thinking if the current UK (EU) driving licence will be suitable.

I'm not personally 100% sure that pure EV's really are the future, only time will tell on this. And that is a different debate altogether. But looking at some of the awesome EV's that have recently come to the market such as the Rivian R1S

https://rivian.com/r1s



I know this is a US only model at present. But kind of shows what this size vehicle is like. And what I'm meaning is weight.

The R1S has a curb weight of 3206kg according to online sources. Although I guess this could be option dependant still.

The trouble is, here in the UK the regular category B on the driving licence for anyone the age of 42 or under, is limited to a MAM of 3500kg. Which means vehicles like the R1S will surely be exceeding.

MAM - Maximum authorised Mass

i.e. how much a fully loaded vehicle can weigh.

There are already EVs out there that have a curb weight that exceeds the 3500kg MAM limit in the UK. Meaning unless you take the appropriate test for a C1 licence (and C1E if you want to then tow with said vehicle), you would not be able to legally drive them on the roads.

Technology is changing all the while, but EV's have proven that in general they weigh considerably more than their ICE counterparts.

Is it time for the powers that be to start looking at what changes the driving licence categories need, to ensure people can actually buy and drive this new wave of automobiles?

[Dark85]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes...

The limit has already been upped to 4,250Kg for alternative fuelled vehicles.

The only stuff that might go over that, the Hummer EV for example, are really too big for the UK anyway.

[300bhp/ton]

Dark85 said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes...

The limit has already been upped to 4,250Kg for alternative fuelled vehicles.

The only stuff that might go over that, the Hummer EV for example, are really too big for the UK anyway.

Thanks, wasn't aware of that change. Although looking into it. I don't think it actually covers what would be required, it seems to be only for moving goods (so no. social, domestic or pleasure driving). And doesn't allow towing or driving outside of the UK. It also requires mandatory training.

[Dark85]

300bhp/ton said:

Thanks, wasn't aware of that change. Although looking into it. I don't think it actually covers what would be required, it seems to be only for moving goods (so no. social, domestic or pleasure driving). And doesn't allow towing or driving outside of the UK. It also requires mandatory training.

I think you've interrupted that the wrong way around. It is does cover social, domestic and pleasure, but not moving goods - presumably to stop it being used as a loop hole for business use.

I think the five hours minimum training is just normal driving lessons - so you can't learn in something over the old limit, which no sensible person would do anyway.

It doesn't incudes driving outside the UK I assume just means the law doesn't supersede any local laws, which would be no different to how the rules were before. I was under the impression that the UK's rules were at the stricter end of the spectrum anyway, so it rare a UK license won't cover you in another country regardless.

I'm not very familiar with the laws around towing, it makes sense to me that anyone towing should require additional licensing anyway, and if that's not already the case I think it should updated.

[Pica-Pica]

Dark85 said:

300bhp/ton said:

Thanks, wasn't aware of that change. Although looking into it. I don't think it actually covers what would be required, it seems to be only for moving goods (so no. social, domestic or pleasure driving). And doesn't allow towing or driving outside of the UK. It also requires mandatory training.

I think you've interrupted that the wrong way around. It is does cover social, domestic and pleasure, but not moving goods - presumably to stop it being used as a loop hole for business use.

I think the five hours minimum training is just normal driving lessons - so you can't learn in something over the old limit, which no sensible person would do anyway.

It doesn't incudes driving outside the UK I assume just means the law doesn't supersede any local laws, which would be no different to how the rules were before. I was under the impression that the UK's rules were at the stricter end of the spectrum anyway, so it rare a UK license won't cover you in another country regardless.

I'm not very familiar with the laws around towing, it makes sense to me that anyone towing should require additional licensing anyway, and if that's not already the case I think it should updated.

In that case, there should be a ‘nor’ or an ‘and’ there, to provide clarification. It’s badly written, if it can be mis-interpreted.

[Dark85]

Pica-Pica said:

In that case, there should be a ‘nor’ or an ‘and’ there, to provide clarification. It’s badly written, if it can be mis-interpreted.

A British law, written in a poor and ambiguous way? No! How can it be?

[Draxindustries1]

At this weight the overall carbon foot print is going to be way over that of an equivalent ICE car.
Licence cats will have to change once EV'S exceed 4.25tonnes..

[kambites]

Draxindustries1 said:

At this weight the overall carbon foot print is going to be way over that of an equivalent ICE car.

With our energy mix, nowhere near.

I rather hope they don't raise the licence thresholds though. Anything which forces people into smaller, lighter cars has got to be good. I'd love to see VED ramp exponentially with vehicle weight.

[SamR380]

300bhp/ton said:

....And doesn't allow towing or driving outside of the UK....

Technically, it says GB, not UK, meaning you couldn't drive a 4t EV in Northern Ireland on a UK licence. Brexit isn't "done" yet.

[Pent]

this is slightly related and made me also think the other day about driving licenses and that most of us already driving have a manual license so we can drive manual and auto.

If you are 17 and learning to drive in an all electric car.. surely your license will be restricted to an automatic only???
Might make it harder for new drivers to find old ICE bangers if they can only drive autos?

just a thought

[kambites]

Once manuals become rare enough I suspect the auto-only licence will be abandoned and we'll end up with a system similar to the US where everyone is licensed to drive a manual but most people never bother to learn how to. It was always a bit of an odd distinction anyway; I'd argue that from a safety perspective there's far more difference between driving a car with ABS and stability control and one without, than between a manual and an automatic with the level level of driver aids.

[Randy Winkman]

Pent said:

this is slightly related and made me also think the other day about driving licenses and that most of us already driving have a manual license so we can drive manual and auto.

If you are 17 and learning to drive in an all electric car.. surely your license will be restricted to an automatic only???
Might make it harder for new drivers to find old ICE bangers if they can only drive autos?

just a thought

Related to this - I've wondered for a while if the major controls of cars will ever change away from having a great big steering wheel and clunky pedals that arise from the floor? surely a modern car could be driven from a joystick or a small controller you hold in your lap like a TV computer game? But I guess the problem with making the change is about driving tests and licences.

[kambites]

Randy Winkman said:

Related to this - I've wondered for a while if the major controls of cars will ever change away from having a great big steering wheel and clunky pedals that arise from the floor? surely a modern car could be driven from a joystick or a small controller you hold in your lap like a TV computer game? But I guess the problem with making the change is about driving tests and licences.

I guess the question is, in what way would a joystick be better than the current setup? The wheel is a very natural mechanism for steering, and using your feet for stop and go kinda makes sense if you're using your hands to steer. What problem would a manufacturer be trying to solve by changing the status quo?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

kambites said:

Once manuals become rare enough I suspect the auto-only licence will be abandoned and we'll end up with a system similar to the US where everyone is licensed to drive a manual but most people never bother to learn how to.

Exactly this. Like if I ever had to get in a 1905 car, I wouldn't have a clue about ignition advance and retard and all that jazz. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. But someone will show me, I won't have to take another test.

In time, everyone will take a test in an auto and get an auto/manual licence. Just get some casual instruction on driving a manual in the rare event they will ever need to. Works fine in the USA

[300bhp/ton]

Dark85 said:

300bhp/ton said:

Thanks, wasn't aware of that change. Although looking into it. I don't think it actually covers what would be required, it seems to be only for moving goods (so no. social, domestic or pleasure driving). And doesn't allow towing or driving outside of the UK. It also requires mandatory training.

I think you've interrupted that the wrong way around. It is does cover social, domestic and pleasure, but not moving goods - presumably to stop it being used as a loop hole for business use.

I think the five hours minimum training is just normal driving lessons - so you can't learn in something over the old limit, which no sensible person would do anyway.

It doesn't incudes driving outside the UK I assume just means the law doesn't supersede any local laws, which would be no different to how the rules were before. I was under the impression that the UK's rules were at the stricter end of the spectrum anyway, so it rare a UK license won't cover you in another country regardless.

I'm not very familiar with the laws around towing, it makes sense to me that anyone towing should require additional licensing anyway, and if that's not already the case I think it should updated.

I think that is the wrong way round. Read the rest of the document and it talks about vans and companies, clearly aimed at business use.

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

Once manuals become rare enough I suspect the auto-only licence will be abandoned and we'll end up with a system similar to the US where everyone is licensed to drive a manual but most people never bother to learn how to. It was always a bit of an odd distinction anyway; I'd argue that from a safety perspective there's far more difference between driving a car with ABS and stability control and one without, than between a manual and an automatic with the level level of driver aids.

I guess. Although there is a physical technique that needs to be learnt in order to drive a manual car, all around clutch control and changing gear. While it is 2nd nature to people like us. It isn't something you can really self teach safely in 5-10 mins on a busy public road. I'm sure we can all remember back when first having a go.

[QJumper]

kambites said:

I guess the question is, in what way would a joystick be better than the current setup? The wheel is a very natural mechanism for steering, and using your feet for stop and go kinda makes sense if you're using your hands to steer. What problem would a manufacturer be trying to solve by changing the status quo?

Yes, but with a joystiuck people can pretend they're in Top Gun

[R Mutt]

Also negates the need for a manual license. My friend took auto only on this basis but I suspect he also went for the easier option for quickness as he was moving to more rural parts with a greater need for a car.

[speedking31]

Some Pay & Display Car Parks limit vehicle weight to e.g. 2 tons, presumably to exclude vans and other commercial vehicles. Discoveries for example exceed that limit already without being EVs. Whether it is ever enforced is another matter. e.g. Redcar and Cleveland.

Loading for new (multi-storey) car parks is being reviewed to take account of the increased average weight of EVs cf. ICEs.

[Rolls-canardley]

300bhp/ton said:

As EV's are gaining popularity, it got me thinking if the current UK (EU) driving licence will be suitable.

I'm not personally 100% sure that pure EV's really are the future, only time will tell on this. And that is a different debate altogether. But looking at some of the awesome EV's that have recently come to the market such as the Rivian R1S

https://rivian.com/r1s



I know this is a US only model at present. But kind of shows what this size vehicle is like. And what I'm meaning is weight.

The R1S has a curb weight of 3206kg according to online sources. Although I guess this could be option dependant still.

The trouble is, here in the UK the regular category B on the driving licence for anyone the age of 42 or under, is limited to a MAM of 3500kg. Which means vehicles like the R1S will surely be exceeding.

MAM - Maximum authorised Mass

i.e. how much a fully loaded vehicle can weigh.

There are already EVs out there that have a curb weight that exceeds the 3500kg MAM limit in the UK. Meaning unless you take the appropriate test for a C1 licence (and C1E if you want to then tow with said vehicle), you would not be able to legally drive them on the roads.

Technology is changing all the while, but EV's have proven that in general they weigh considerably more than their ICE counterparts.

Is it time for the powers that be to start looking at what changes the driving licence categories need, to ensure people can actually buy and drive this new wave of automobiles?

WOW..........That is one mother of an UGLY vehicle