Decent old cars are scrapped because...
Discussion
Defying the doom-mongers is my thread in Readers' Cars about my wife's elderly SLK230.
In it, I ask the question 'why would anyone spend more on a car than it's worth?'
The real answer came to me not only after the refurbishment but also after I posted the thread.
It's not spending the money that puts people off, it's the inability to insure the car for the amount they would have to spend on it that deters them.
The car was functioning perfectly well, but needed a spruce up. She's had it for 20 years and is fond of it. On a good day it was probably worth £2,500. Refurbished, on a good day, it's probably worth £3,000. But I spent about £7,500 on it - and we're pleased with the result - but if it's written off I won't get back more than book price.
This, I contend, is why old cars get scrapped. It's the jeopardy that puts people off.
Put the car in a barn for twenty years and it will be worth more because it will be rare. The majority of us don't have room to store cars, so most are scrapped. Early SLKs are being scrapped for parts and will become scarce. With scarcity may come desirability. Most car owners can't wait for that to happen because there are no guarantees it will happen and they'll be stuck with an old banger no one wants.
This came as a revelation to me. If it is a well known phenomenon, it has passed me by completely.
In it, I ask the question 'why would anyone spend more on a car than it's worth?'
The real answer came to me not only after the refurbishment but also after I posted the thread.
It's not spending the money that puts people off, it's the inability to insure the car for the amount they would have to spend on it that deters them.
The car was functioning perfectly well, but needed a spruce up. She's had it for 20 years and is fond of it. On a good day it was probably worth £2,500. Refurbished, on a good day, it's probably worth £3,000. But I spent about £7,500 on it - and we're pleased with the result - but if it's written off I won't get back more than book price.
This, I contend, is why old cars get scrapped. It's the jeopardy that puts people off.
Put the car in a barn for twenty years and it will be worth more because it will be rare. The majority of us don't have room to store cars, so most are scrapped. Early SLKs are being scrapped for parts and will become scarce. With scarcity may come desirability. Most car owners can't wait for that to happen because there are no guarantees it will happen and they'll be stuck with an old banger no one wants.
This came as a revelation to me. If it is a well known phenomenon, it has passed me by completely.
Scrappage schemes also take a lot of interesting old cars off the road.
Once a car gets old/interesting/collectable then breakers move in, hoovering up cheap ones for spares and reducing the numbers further.
I've got a clio 172. When prices were at their lowest, a set of tyres plus new cambelt and dephaser could be more than the car was worth. So quite a few were scrapped at that point. A lot of clios get converted to track cars and they don't always survive...
Once a car gets old/interesting/collectable then breakers move in, hoovering up cheap ones for spares and reducing the numbers further.
I've got a clio 172. When prices were at their lowest, a set of tyres plus new cambelt and dephaser could be more than the car was worth. So quite a few were scrapped at that point. A lot of clios get converted to track cars and they don't always survive...
I too wonder about future values of 'future classics' ........
Some of the highly valued cars today are the likes of Escorts / Capris etc. I completely get the 'I had/always wanted to have one of those in the 70's' argument regarding values today.
BUT: not many of the survivors were put in a barn and actually stored for posterity. They were, at some point, 'just' old cars. Their value is that there are very few survivors in good, unrestored condition. And those that are in good condition, because of rarity - which pushes up prices - and makes it worthwhile for owners of poor cars to (very expensively) have them restored to 'as new condition', creating a new market. But a market that has been underpinned by vary low interest rates and 'f
k-it, I've got the money' demographic (home owners on final salary pension schemes).
If, if if a lot of (a specific model) car owners all decide to store a car for the future then there will be many survivors in good condition but there won't be the rarity factor.
Some cars, for example MGBs and Triumph Stags haven't (really) risen, at least as much as Capris. This is subjective, but I think you would get a 'better' Triumph Stag for (say) £15k than you would a Ford Capri. And back in the day I would say a Triumph Stag was a far more desirable car than a Ford Capri. (CAR magazine's 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly' described a Capri as a Cortina in drag!)
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/search?gclid=EAIaI...
Sort by price, low to high
Reason: Ford Capri https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=ford+capri vs Triumph Stag https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=triumph+stag
(Yes, I know HML is questionable, but I do think there are more Stags than Capris on the road
Sorry, third edit to add 'How Many Left'
Some of the highly valued cars today are the likes of Escorts / Capris etc. I completely get the 'I had/always wanted to have one of those in the 70's' argument regarding values today.
BUT: not many of the survivors were put in a barn and actually stored for posterity. They were, at some point, 'just' old cars. Their value is that there are very few survivors in good, unrestored condition. And those that are in good condition, because of rarity - which pushes up prices - and makes it worthwhile for owners of poor cars to (very expensively) have them restored to 'as new condition', creating a new market. But a market that has been underpinned by vary low interest rates and 'f
k-it, I've got the money' demographic (home owners on final salary pension schemes). If, if if a lot of (a specific model) car owners all decide to store a car for the future then there will be many survivors in good condition but there won't be the rarity factor.
Some cars, for example MGBs and Triumph Stags haven't (really) risen, at least as much as Capris. This is subjective, but I think you would get a 'better' Triumph Stag for (say) £15k than you would a Ford Capri. And back in the day I would say a Triumph Stag was a far more desirable car than a Ford Capri. (CAR magazine's 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly' described a Capri as a Cortina in drag!)
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/search?gclid=EAIaI...
Sort by price, low to high
Reason: Ford Capri https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=ford+capri vs Triumph Stag https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=triumph+stag
(Yes, I know HML is questionable, but I do think there are more Stags than Capris on the road
Sorry, third edit to add 'How Many Left'
Edited by alfaspecial on Tuesday 24th January 07:39
Slick and highly persuasive multi-million marketing campaigns coupled with an irresistible compulsion among the more vacuous to be seen winning at the Game of Life by having some shiny brand new metal on the drive for the neighbours to admire no doubt takes a lot of decent older cars that may need a few quid spending here and there to get several years more service out of them on their last journey to the scrapyard too.
Don't fully agree with the OP, most cars get scrapped when a bill, or set of bills align, that mean to repair the car is more than the car is worth, usually at MOT time.
Unless there is some kind of sentimental attachment as the OP has to his Merc', most people will run a car until it's value has bottomed out, keep running it on the cheap and then be presented with a bill to fix several things all at the same time.
Without the sentimental attachment it's good bye at that point as it's cheaper to go and buy another car for the repair bill(s).
Then the old car goes to scrappy or on Ebay for parts.
I don't think many people will be considering how much they've spent making the car 'nice' and worrying about whether the insurance payout would ever cover it as 1. most won't be spending much money making an old banger 'nice', and 2. most know in the event of an insurance claim the car is going to be immediately written off as cost to repair would be too much of the value of the car even with just a minor dent.
Unless there is some kind of sentimental attachment as the OP has to his Merc', most people will run a car until it's value has bottomed out, keep running it on the cheap and then be presented with a bill to fix several things all at the same time.
Without the sentimental attachment it's good bye at that point as it's cheaper to go and buy another car for the repair bill(s).
Then the old car goes to scrappy or on Ebay for parts.
I don't think many people will be considering how much they've spent making the car 'nice' and worrying about whether the insurance payout would ever cover it as 1. most won't be spending much money making an old banger 'nice', and 2. most know in the event of an insurance claim the car is going to be immediately written off as cost to repair would be too much of the value of the car even with just a minor dent.
People give up on older cars because they don't have the skills, tools, or space to maintain or do repair jobs and most garages are a pain in the backside that can't be trusted to do a job right or can't be bothered to do jobs they don't feel like doing. So people give up and buy a new(er) car. It isn't all about impressing the neighbours.
Rich Boy Spanner said:
People give up on older cars because they don't have the skills, tools, or space to maintain or do repair jobs and most garages are a pain in the backside that can't be trusted to do a job right or can't be bothered to do jobs they don't feel like doing. So people give up and buy a new(er) car. It isn't all about impressing the neighbours.
Not caring about impressing the neighbours is a good state to be in. You can buy some lovely cars at the bottom of their value curve. And if you do, you know you're not doing it for any reflected glory, you're buying the car because you want it.Dingu said:
Yeah, that sounds like a very edge reason. Most people aren’t going to spend an amount fixing a car when they can like for like replace it for half the cost. You are extrapolating your situation driven by sentimentality to others it seems.
Not just sentimentality, we also have a fairly low mileage, refurbished car, whose history we know, whose refurbishers we trust, for a total cost of £10,000. If we bought a later SLK for £10,000, the whole adventure begins again as we get to know the car and start to work through its irritating faults and habits.Rich Boy Spanner said:
People give up on older cars because they don't have the skills, tools, or space to maintain or do repair jobs and most garages are a pain in the backside that can't be trusted to do a job right or can't be bothered to do jobs they don't feel like doing. So people give up and buy a new(er) car. It isn't all about impressing the neighbours.
Absolutely this. And true even in the classic/ restoration world. If you want a job done properly, no-one cares as much as the owner.I actually think my neighbours are impressed more at my fleet of 20+ year cars than just having a newish car. They've benefitted from borrowing one, too as I always have cars cheap enough to walk away from.
One of my cars I've had for 24 years and about every 6-7 years it gone away for some sort of restoration (arches, sills etc) at maybe £2k, possibly 4x it's worth. But it still works out as a cheap car and I have many spares and it's super easy to work on. But a lot of people just don't want to drive a 36 year old Astra!
Rich Boy Spanner said:
People give up on older cars because they don't have the skills, tools, or space to maintain or do repair jobs and most garages are a pain in the backside that can't be trusted to do a job right or can't be bothered to do jobs they don't feel like doing. So people give up and buy a new(er) car. It isn't all about impressing the neighbours.
Exactly this - far easier to avoid garages all together and sign up for a lease.As others have said, eventually there will be a large repair bill or the car will become generally tatty - a lot will deem it as throwing good money after bad.
As an example, I purchased an old car a few months ago, an estate to help with a house move. It was an MOT failure and the chap didn't want to spend any money. He offered it for sale before he scrapped it.
I purchased and spent a Saturday of spannering (CV joint, tank strap, brake pads and a few other trivial bits) - the cost of parts was less than £150 however he had been quoted £400+ for the work.
I'm lucky I have the ability to do it.
The car itself still has a lot of love to give, despite being a 2004, its fairly fuel efficient and gets on with things - no sign of giving up yet, the powertrain is still in very good condition.
Rich Boy Spanner said:
People give up on older cars because they don't have the skills, tools, or space to maintain or do repair jobs and most garages are a pain in the backside that can't be trusted to do a job right or can't be bothered to do jobs they don't feel like doing. So people give up and buy a new(er) car. It isn't all about impressing the neighbours.
This ^My wife just ordered a new car, it will be the 4th one she's had in the last 7 years. She couldn't give a s
t what our neighbours think. After years of driving round in old sheds she's now in a position to afford it. She works hard for her money and wants to spend it on something that puts a smile on her face.What are typical criteria for a an agreed value policy? Can you get them for cover for commuting? I have a knackered old car that I use as a daily and is consuming decent amount in repairs at the moment, but it’d had so much work it may now be worth (at least to me) a little more than the purchase price. Essentially exactly the situation the OP describes.
DickyC said:
TooLateForAName said:
Isnt this why we have classic car/agreed value insurance policies?
I haven't investigated, but I'm not sure a regularly used 1998 SLK would qualify as a classic with an agreed value of £10,000.alfaspecial said:
I too wonder about future values of 'future classics' ........
Some of the highly valued cars today are the likes of Escorts / Capris etc. I completely get the 'I had/always wanted to have one of those in the 70's' argument regarding values today.
BUT: not many of the survivors were put in a barn and actually stored for posterity. They were, at some point, 'just' old cars. Their value is that there are very few survivors in good, unrestored condition. And those that are in good condition, because of rarity - which pushes up prices - and makes it worthwhile for owners of poor cars to (very expensively) have them restored to 'as new condition', creating a new market. But a market that has been underpinned by vary low interest rates and 'fk-it, I've got the money' demographic (home owners on final salary pension schemes).
If, if if a lot of (a specific model) car owners all decide to store a car for the future then there will be many survivors in good condition but there won't be the rarity factor.
Some cars, for example MGBs and Triumph Stags haven't (really) risen, at least as much as Capris. This is subjective, but I think you would get a 'better' Triumph Stag for (say) £15k than you would a Ford Capri. And back in the day I would say a Triumph Stag was a far more desirable car than a Ford Capri. (CAR magazine's 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly' described a Capri as a Cortina in drag!)
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/search?gclid=EAIaI...
Sort by price, low to high
Reason: Ford Capri https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=ford+capri vs Triumph Stag https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=triumph+stag
(Yes, I know HML is questionable, but I do think there are more Stags than Capris on the road
Sorry, third edit to add 'How Many Left'
The Stag owner’s club reckon there are around 9,000 left of the 25,000 built, not all of these will be on the road of course, but that’s quite some survival rate.Some of the highly valued cars today are the likes of Escorts / Capris etc. I completely get the 'I had/always wanted to have one of those in the 70's' argument regarding values today.
BUT: not many of the survivors were put in a barn and actually stored for posterity. They were, at some point, 'just' old cars. Their value is that there are very few survivors in good, unrestored condition. And those that are in good condition, because of rarity - which pushes up prices - and makes it worthwhile for owners of poor cars to (very expensively) have them restored to 'as new condition', creating a new market. But a market that has been underpinned by vary low interest rates and 'f
k-it, I've got the money' demographic (home owners on final salary pension schemes). If, if if a lot of (a specific model) car owners all decide to store a car for the future then there will be many survivors in good condition but there won't be the rarity factor.
Some cars, for example MGBs and Triumph Stags haven't (really) risen, at least as much as Capris. This is subjective, but I think you would get a 'better' Triumph Stag for (say) £15k than you would a Ford Capri. And back in the day I would say a Triumph Stag was a far more desirable car than a Ford Capri. (CAR magazine's 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly' described a Capri as a Cortina in drag!)
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/search?gclid=EAIaI...
Sort by price, low to high
Reason: Ford Capri https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=ford+capri vs Triumph Stag https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=triumph+stag
(Yes, I know HML is questionable, but I do think there are more Stags than Capris on the road
Sorry, third edit to add 'How Many Left'
Edited by alfaspecial on Tuesday 24th January 07:39
DickyC said:
TooLateForAName said:
Isnt this why we have classic car/agreed value insurance policies?
I haven't investigated, but I'm not sure a regularly used 1998 SLK would qualify as a classic with an agreed value of £10,000.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff