GTR gone... hot hatch in (joys of driving a slow car fast)
Discussion
I have been through many fast cars over the years including a 2016 M5, Maserati GT, 911 997 turbo, audi rs6 and most recently a Nissan GTR and none have given me the sort of driving pleasure I expected them to. Yes they were very fast in a straight line but round B roads they just felt numb and flat and simply didn't excite me. After five miles into a random drive i'd think "i'm bored now" and head home.
So I decided to take a "step back" and buy something cheaper and with a less impressive badge but which feels more driver focused, lighter and simple...I therefore sold the GTR and bought a brand new Honda civic type R (FL5) and I could not be happier with it. I find myself going for drives and never wanting them to end, it is so much fun despite being about half as powerful as a lot of my previous cars.
I was worried I would miss the big power as this has just 320bhp, however on my favourite B roads it is plenty. You can really rev it out and use all of it, round bends it feels alive, light and nimble (plus having alcantara bucket seats you are held into place and dont slide about like my old cars with leather), I love the manual gearbox which is something I haven't had in a long time and driving it is just addictive. Plus in the civic you actually feel like you are going fast whereas in all of the other cars I have had you didn't as they were too competent. You had to get them on a track for them to be rewarding as thats the only place you can push them hard enough.
I now see what people mean about the enjoyment you get driving a slow car fast compared to driving a fast car slow.
So I decided to take a "step back" and buy something cheaper and with a less impressive badge but which feels more driver focused, lighter and simple...I therefore sold the GTR and bought a brand new Honda civic type R (FL5) and I could not be happier with it. I find myself going for drives and never wanting them to end, it is so much fun despite being about half as powerful as a lot of my previous cars.
I was worried I would miss the big power as this has just 320bhp, however on my favourite B roads it is plenty. You can really rev it out and use all of it, round bends it feels alive, light and nimble (plus having alcantara bucket seats you are held into place and dont slide about like my old cars with leather), I love the manual gearbox which is something I haven't had in a long time and driving it is just addictive. Plus in the civic you actually feel like you are going fast whereas in all of the other cars I have had you didn't as they were too competent. You had to get them on a track for them to be rewarding as thats the only place you can push them hard enough.
I now see what people mean about the enjoyment you get driving a slow car fast compared to driving a fast car slow.
It weighs about 1,430kg. The GTR I think was about 1,800kg.
You really feel the difference in corners.
Maybe calling it slow is a bit harsh on the car but then I am comparing it to the GTR which had 700bhp, the M5 was 700bhp, RS6 similar. They had the massive G force acceleration in a straight line which is what the civic lacks a bit of, but then again it is FWD and struggles to put all 320 down under full throttle anyway.
You really feel the difference in corners.
Maybe calling it slow is a bit harsh on the car but then I am comparing it to the GTR which had 700bhp, the M5 was 700bhp, RS6 similar. They had the massive G force acceleration in a straight line which is what the civic lacks a bit of, but then again it is FWD and struggles to put all 320 down under full throttle anyway.
I tuned the GTR, M5 and RS6 as I was so disappointed with how they felt and thought more power would make them more fun to drive. But it really didn't.
None of them have anything like the fun factor of the civic. It is just on another level and makes you feel like you are driving a touring car.
None of them have anything like the fun factor of the civic. It is just on another level and makes you feel like you are driving a touring car.
Your post makes a lot of sense to me.
After selling our RX7 I wanted something to fit the kids in but still good fun to drive. Pretty much narrowed it down to a GTR, 996 Turbo or Gen 2 997 S.
Decided on going for the lighter RWD manual 997 in the end, the GTR would have no doubt been faster A-B but I don't think it would have been as much fun.
After selling our RX7 I wanted something to fit the kids in but still good fun to drive. Pretty much narrowed it down to a GTR, 996 Turbo or Gen 2 997 S.
Decided on going for the lighter RWD manual 997 in the end, the GTR would have no doubt been faster A-B but I don't think it would have been as much fun.
With modern cars, for those with half a brain the performance on the road isn't the limiting factor, its traffic, street furniture, speed cameras, your license etc.
I love stuff like tuned GTR's but its all a bit pointless being so fast and so big, might have 4 times the power of a Golf GTI for example, but can you go four times faster ? that would be a no, its degrees of overkill beyond a certain point, easy to go down that Rabbit hole, a bit like folk who go mental with the plastic surgery and end up looking like a johhny stretched over a potato.
I love stuff like tuned GTR's but its all a bit pointless being so fast and so big, might have 4 times the power of a Golf GTI for example, but can you go four times faster ? that would be a no, its degrees of overkill beyond a certain point, easy to go down that Rabbit hole, a bit like folk who go mental with the plastic surgery and end up looking like a johhny stretched over a potato.
FM-EVA said:
then again it is FWD and struggles to put all 320 down under full throttle anyway.
I reckon your driving style will adapt to the point you don't notice it. I had approx 300bhp in a Vectra (similar weight and FWD) and TBH the biggest issues with 300bhp fwd car traction are when hoofing it off the line and on the rare occasion it wouldn't be stupid to give it the beans whilst on a bend. Although I suspect on the Civic the understeer has been mitigated with passive RWS or ESP wizardry.Nice 
Even 320bhp is twice as much as you 'need' though.
I still think my 170bhp Z4 2.2i was more fun than the 340bhp Z4M that I 'upgraded' to after it.
You just can't use 300bhp on UK roads that are 'fun' to drive on safely.
I've made the same mistake again though, gone for the newer Z4 M40i instead of 2.0 which would have been plenty. In this case not as big a problem given my girlfriend drives it more than I do and when we do 50 in a 60 road and 70 in a 70 road is enough for us, I've mellowed out and lost interest in driving 'spiritedly'. Or even driving.
Happy just to cruise along slowly.
Even 320bhp is twice as much as you 'need' though.
I still think my 170bhp Z4 2.2i was more fun than the 340bhp Z4M that I 'upgraded' to after it.
You just can't use 300bhp on UK roads that are 'fun' to drive on safely.
I've made the same mistake again though, gone for the newer Z4 M40i instead of 2.0 which would have been plenty. In this case not as big a problem given my girlfriend drives it more than I do and when we do 50 in a 60 road and 70 in a 70 road is enough for us, I've mellowed out and lost interest in driving 'spiritedly'. Or even driving.
Happy just to cruise along slowly. ScoobyChris said:
And yet the OP appears to be doing just that!
Chris
Ah, the stereotypical PH Driving God! Chris
Sod other road users, sod being able to predict exactly who or what is around every bend, just "make progress" and use all of that power!
Playing the odds and gambling upon being lucky is not driving safely. You want to use that much power, keep it on a private track dedicated to that. Otherwise you are a knob.
Seriously though, we need to be careful out there on public roads and the right car with 200bhp can deliver all the driving fun needed.
PastelNata said:
Ah, the stereotypical PH Driving God!
Sod other road users, sod being able to predict exactly who or what is around every bend, just "make progress" and use all of that power!
Playing the odds and gambling upon being lucky is not driving safely. You want to use that much power, keep it on a private track dedicated to that. Otherwise you are a knob.
Seriously though, we need to be careful out there on public roads and the right car with 200bhp can deliver all the driving fun needed.
It’s road dependent and, depending on where you are in the country, you may be correct in saying that using massive amounts of power is a dangerous gamble. In other areas the roads can have brilliant sighting where you can make use of it - although whether that’s actually fun, as the OP has found out, is another matter. Sod other road users, sod being able to predict exactly who or what is around every bend, just "make progress" and use all of that power!
Playing the odds and gambling upon being lucky is not driving safely. You want to use that much power, keep it on a private track dedicated to that. Otherwise you are a knob.
Seriously though, we need to be careful out there on public roads and the right car with 200bhp can deliver all the driving fun needed.
I’d quite like something slow and fun myself - GT86 being something I fancy.
I think the people recommending he jumps in a really slow car immediately are wrong. He just won't have the driving skills to cope with it. The right thing to do is to start with something a bit slow and then gradually work up. That way by the time he gets in eg. a 2CV he can really make the most of its lack of performance.
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