RE: Lawrence Stroll (and team) | PH Meets
RE: Lawrence Stroll (and team) | PH Meets
Tuesday 27th June 2023

Aston EV future: 'We're not just going to do SUVs'

Lucid connection could see the arrival of a 1,500hp Aston Martin - but that's certainly not all it has planned


The announcement of Aston’s tie-up with U.S. EV maker Lucid yesterday raised at least as many questions as it provided answers. Fortunately, PH was invited to a media briefing held at Gaydon where we got much more detail from pretty much a full house of senior Aston executives – from Chairman Lawrence Stroll downwards – as well as Lucid’s CEO Peter Rawlinson.

To no great surprise, the deal has been being discussed for some time. Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund owns stakes in both companies, which led to the suggestion that they should work together. But this was unnecessary, according to Stroll – Aston had conducted extensive analysis on potential technical partners and had already concluded that Lucid was on top of the list, with negotiations underway, a process that went on for more than two years.

That led to the basic deal as reported yesterday. Lucid will give Aston access to its core EV technology, including its ultra-powerful integrated motor/transmissions and compact battery cells. In return, Lucid will receive $132m in cash for its expertise, and will also get a 3.7 per cent stake in Aston Martin worth another $100m. On top of that it, is guaranteed that Aston will buy at least $225m worth of components from it. That means Lucid joins the growing roster of Aston part-owners, with that list also including Stroll’s Yew Tree consortium, PIF, Mercedes-Benz and Geely. Plus those with smaller stakes who finally have something to smile about, from a low point of 85.6p last October, Aston’s shares are now close to £3.50. (Although still a far cry from the £40 they launched at in 2018. )

Aston has already had plenty of false starts with EV programmes. Indeed, to give the company its due, it was seriously considering a post-combustion future well before most of its rivals. The company spent a fair amount of effort and money on creating the electric Rapide E, developed with the collaboration of Williams Advanced Engineering, although none of the proposed production run of 155 cars was ever built. Soon afterwards then Aston CEO Andy Palmer detailed plans for an all-new EV platform to underpin a series of Lagonda branded models, although these were iced when the company hit its post-IPO financial crisis.

Then came the partnership with Mercedes negotiated after Stroll took control, one that included both the agreement to share combustion engines and electronic control architecture, also a second tranche that would allow Aston to use Merc’s EV technology. That supplementary bit is now not going to happen.

Mercedes remains a key Aston partner, with the bigger company’s expertise in getting engines through increasingly tough emissions standards vital to helping Aston to the end of combustion. But the deal with Lucid is set to end what had seemed to be the increasing closeness between Mercedes and Aston; a ‘Restatement of strategic co-operation agreement’ makes it clear that from now on Merc will be paid in cash rather than equity. It will, however, hold onto its current shareholding in Aston. For now, at least.

For Aston, the core appeal of Lucid is the exceptional power density of the American company’s proprietary powertrain. Taken together the motor, inverter and transmission unit has a power-to-weight ratio of 9hp per kg according to Lucid Group CEO Peter Rawlinson. (The comparable figure for the most potent Tesla Model S Plaid is 3.9hp/ kg - traditional carmakers lagging far behind even that.) So each Lucid drive unit can deliver up to 670hp if attached to a sufficiently potent battery pack, while weighing just 74kg.

So while most of the weight of electric drivelines is obviously made up of large batteries, lighter motors can be more responsive, smaller and easier to package. The potency of Lucid’s tech is demonstrated by the Air saloon, already on sale in the States, with the forthcoming triple-motor Sapphire version set to have more than 1,200hp. Lucid’s battery cell design is also especially compact, which Aston regards as being especially important given the need for future EVs to keep the low, sleek dimensions of its petrol-powered models. “We’re not going to become one of those carmakers that just does SUVs,” said creative director Marek Reichmann.

While the first Aston EV is still two years away, we already know that it will be one of a family rather than a one-off. The company is going to renew its entire traditional range before then, with replacements for the current Vantage and DBS joining the already shown DB12, plus a revised version of the DBX that will bring the option of a plug-in hybrid powertrain. But from that point onwards, Aston’s development budgets are going to effectively reverse direction: in 2023 75 per cent of development spend is going on combustion models, by 2027 the same proportion will be spent on EVs. Yet unlike rivals including Bentley and Rolls-Royce, Aston has no plans to get rid of combustion models before it has to; insiders say the AMG V8 is future-proofed against Euro 7 emissions standards and we’re even told to expect another V12.

But yesterday was all about electrification. Aston CTO, former Ferrari exec Roberto Fedeli, was happy to give more details about Aston’s plans for a scalable EV architecture that will underpin multiple models. This will use a version of the same bonded aluminium construction technique that has served the company well for more than two decades, but with different battery configurations allowing changes to be easily made to size and wheelbase.

The plan is to use the next generation of Lucid’s twin motor rear drive module to power the back axle of Aston EVs, but the company is planning to use its own design of front motors; these will be derived from those that will be fitted to the forthcoming Valhalla PHEV supercar. It’s too soon to talk about power outputs, but the potency of the Lucid system - and Rawlinson’s confirmation there is no contractual reason to prevent Aston from extracting more performance from the same components - suggests a peak output for a quad-motor system may well be beyond 1,500hp.

Aston is also working on an active drag reduction system in collaboration with the company’s Formula 1 engineers, one that will blow air into a car’s wake to significantly reduce high-speed drag; an idea that sounds similar to the ‘virtual longtail’ of Gordon Murray’s GMA T.50.

Interestingly, Fedeli also suggested that it is unlikely any Aston EVs will use anything less than a four-motor system; while just electrifying the rear axle might create a more brand-traditional driving experience, it would struggle to deliver traction. Separate motor all-wheel drive will also allow full torque vectoring across both axles. The design sketch that Aston released alongside the official announcement makes it clear the first EV will be a low-roofed SUV, but Lawrence Stroll confirmed that his ultimate ambition is to make electric equivalents for the full range with all EVs sharing the same modular platform. So these won’t be electric versions of existing combustion Astons, but distinct models. The floors of the company’s showrooms are going to be getting increasingly full.

Stroll also admitted to having been both angered and motivated by negative press reaction to previous Aston developments under his watch; he clearly reads the coverage. “I should be knighted for what I’ve done,” he told journalists, citing both the investment he has brought to the car-making business and the huge amount he has spent on the Formula 1 team’s new base.

Aston’s future certainly won’t be dull.


Author
Discussion

Mark-C

Original Poster:

7,675 posts

235 months

Sixpackpert

5,332 posts

244 months

SpadeBrigade

861 posts

169 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
Sixpackpert said:
So humble.

Fetchez la vache

5,906 posts

244 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
article said:
The design sketch that Aston released alongside the official announcement makes it clear the first EV will be a low-roofed SUV
Where's this then?

asci.white

558 posts

103 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
To be fair, he did rescue the brand from yet another bankruptcy. And some of the recent deals he negotiated have also helped safeguard the company for the foreseeable future.

People have been knighted for far less.

oilit

2,813 posts

208 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
Mark-C said:
Is this the soft landing for his son when he is replaced at F1 AM I wonder?

oilit

2,813 posts

208 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all

Mark-C

Original Poster:

7,675 posts

235 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
EmailAddress said:
asci.white said:
To be fair, he did rescue the brand from yet another bankruptcy. And some of the recent deals he negotiated have also helped safeguard the company for the foreseeable future.

People have been knighted for far less.
You can be knighted for spending money on your own businesses?
Yep ...

asci.white

558 posts

103 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
EmailAddress said:
You can be knighted for spending money on your own businesses?
You can be knighted for making decisions that save a British company yes.

You can also be knighted for dodgy dealings with our current in office ministers that have far farther reaching implications. I know which i'd prefer...

satans worm

2,464 posts

247 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
a bit random, anyone know where the picture was taken with Manhattan in the background?


Red6

661 posts

86 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
Good luck to Aston. Hope this venture works out. But is it me or does this look like the dodgiest Top Gear presenters line up?


Edited by Red6 on Tuesday 27th June 17:46

romac

608 posts

176 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
Red6 said:
Good luck to Aston. Hope this venture works out. But is it me or does like the dodgiest Top Gear presenters line up?
LOL! It's got a very photoshoppy look!

Hope it works out for AML and Lucid.

smilo996

3,856 posts

200 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
Well, if he is successful in F1 longterm, he will buck another trend for private f1 owners, arrive rich and leave poor.
He got into this because of his son, Geely will take over Aston.

Wab1974uk

1,412 posts

57 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
Seriously, why do you need 1500bhp in any car other than a £1m+ Hypercar for Billionaires to play about in? Or more likely to stick away in their extremely expensive man cave / garage.

Kia SUV's with 600bhp. At some point someone is unwittingly going to jump out of a 130bhp Kia SUV, then jump into a 600bhp SUV, not realise its got 600bhp, and hit something or someone very hard.

NGK210

5,050 posts

175 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
Charmless and egotistical he may be, but he’s getting the job done.
Tie-up with Lucid is very canny.
And he deserves a knighthood for the DB12’s cabin alone.

Water Fairy

6,619 posts

185 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
Wab1974uk said:
Seriously, why do you need 1500bhp in any car other than a £1m+ Hypercar for Billionaires to play about in? Or more likely to stick away in their extremely expensive man cave / garage.

Kia SUV's with 600bhp. At some point someone is unwittingly going to jump out of a 130bhp Kia SUV, then jump into a 600bhp SUV, not realise its got 600bhp, and hit something or someone very hard.
This 100% I've felt this way for some time now. EVs are allowing historically, uninterested (car wise) people to be exposed to performance levels they have not and would never otherwise be interested in. Hell, even most enthusiasts have no idea what a car with instant torque and 600bhp is like to drive

But hey, as long as you do not use you mobile whilst driving we'll all be safe.

nismo48

7,127 posts

237 months

Tuesday 27th June 2023
quotequote all
romac said:
Red6 said:
Good luck to Aston. Hope this venture works out. But is it me or does like the dodgiest Top Gear presenters line up?
LOL! It's got a very photoshoppy look!

Hope it works out for AML and Lucid.
+1 thumbup

anonymous-user

84 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
But but but, Lucid do a 1000HP saloon for what will be a lot less than the Aston version. I know Aston carries luxury cache but assuming they retail at 150% over a similarly powered Lucid why would you buy the Aston?

I think the Lucid tie-in is excellent given Lucid's tech is pretty much the best available but it would be daft to have a competing product. Concentrate on where there is a market gap! EV version of something small like the vantage.

autumnsum

435 posts

61 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
Water Fairy said:
Wab1974uk said:
Seriously, why do you need 1500bhp in any car other than a £1m+ Hypercar for Billionaires to play about in? Or more likely to stick away in their extremely expensive man cave / garage.

Kia SUV's with 600bhp. At some point someone is unwittingly going to jump out of a 130bhp Kia SUV, then jump into a 600bhp SUV, not realise its got 600bhp, and hit something or someone very hard.
This 100% I've felt this way for some time now. EVs are allowing historically, uninterested (car wise) people to be exposed to performance levels they have not and would never otherwise be interested in. Hell, even most enthusiasts have no idea what a car with instant torque and 600bhp is like to drive

But hey, as long as you do not use you mobile whilst driving we'll all be safe.
Or how about normal cars, thanks to EV tech, are now much more fun than they used to be?

CraigyMc

18,369 posts

266 months

Wednesday 28th June 2023
quotequote all
asci.white said:
To be fair, he did rescue the brand from yet another bankruptcy. And some of the recent deals he negotiated have also helped safeguard the company for the foreseeable future.

People have been knighted for far less.
People have been appointed Baroness for far less wink