Saturday 29th July 2023

Power hour! | PH Project Car

Brands Hatch revealed the GTI was lacking in grunt - time to do something about it | Promoted

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One of the key messages we were keen to get across with our Mk5 Volkswagen Golf GTI build is that power should be one of the boxes to tick off on your shopping list. New tyres, brakes and coilovers slashed the deficit to our Golf R target car by 2.4 seconds around Curborough’s figure of eight layout, but last episode’s trip to Brands Hatch revealed that despite it being much more capable in the corners, our GTI was now underpowered.

Besides, we still have around three seconds to make up on the Golf R, and while I’m sure I’ve gained a few tenths after some tuition from Porsche Carrera Cup GB champ Charles Rainford, we’re going to need some serious hardware to slash the gap. For reference, the GTI is as it was when it left the showroom back in 2006, save for a Milltek cat back system that presumably provides a miniscule uptick in performance. And with 17 years and nearly 100,000 miles under its belt, PH Project Car probably isn’t delivering the full 200hp it mustered when new. 

Virtual shopping list in hand, I headed to eBay in search of some go-faster bits. Remember, we’re working with a £10,000 budget here, which includes the cost of the car, so while it’s tempting to raid eBay for the very finest aftermarket goodness, we’ve only got around £3,200 to play with. So here’s what we’ve gone for: a new intercooler and induction kit from Revo, along with a Milltek sports cat to go with our existing cat back system. And while I’ve found it’s faster to leave the car in third gear for our timed runs around Curborough, we’ve also gone for an upgraded clutch and flywheel to handle the extra grunt being funnelled through the front wheels.

Of course, the engine management doesn’t adapt when you throw new parts at the engine, so even if you’re sucking in more cold air, the ECU will continue to operate as if the car was stock. Seeing as we’ve mostly stuck to Revo parts in the name of consistency, we sent our newly improved GTI over to the company’s HQ to undergo a much-needed remap. Our updated parts list puts us in line for Revo’s Stage 2+ remap, which should take PH Project Car from an optimistic 200hp to somewhere in the region of 240hp. Still down on the Golf R’s 333hp output, of course - but don't forget the GTI has a weight advantage of around 200-odd kilos.

Revo doesn’t open up its dyno to anyone, mainly because it’s a hub dyno and is therefore a right faff to set up. However, the team was just as curious as we were to see how much power the remap had unlocked, so they made an exception for us. This particular dyno provides a wheel horsepower reading, which isn’t as high as a conventional flywheel power figure but is apparently a more accurate reading of real-world grunt. 

The result? After five runs, the GTI mustered a maximum wheel horsepower figure of 239.87, which is, by our calculations, around 273hp at the flywheel. That’s a staggering 37% increase in power if we are to take VW's claimed 200hp stock output as a baseline. We’ll find out if it’s capable of beating the Golf R next time out for the series finale, which we’ll premier at our PH25 anniversary event at Bicester Heritage on August 12th, but the initial impression is that it’s absolutely rapid. So, in case you haven’t already, hit the link here so you’re in with a shout of winning PH Project Car at the end of the year. Watch out, Golf R, we’re coming for you... 

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This video is presented in partnership with eBay. Shop for motoring parts and accessories here. To be in with a chance of winning our project car, click here, answer the question and cross your fingers. You’ve got until 11:59 on 5^th November to get your answer in. Good luck!

[Court_S]

Pretty impressive gains over stock.

Do the injectors and fuel pump not need upgrading for stage 2+?

[Bright Halo]

Great progress, that should now be very quick.
An lsd would have been good but probably out of budget. Looking forward to the track results.

Both links take me to eBay not comp entry?

[Hub]

Not bad, but probably not enough. An engine swap with a BYD coded engine from the Edition 30 followed by a remap would have provided the best gains - probably one or two on eBay (albeit a couple of grand), given the rules of the challenge!

[martin12345]

240 increase over 200 is 20%
a 37% increase would be about 270 BHP

TBH, what you really need is the bigger turbo off Edition 30 or Leaon Cupra which was 230 to 240 BHP as stock
Although (as others have posted) whether the fuel system can then deliver enough fuel might be a problem

40 BHP isn't going to close your gap I dont think

[Augustus Windsock]

I may have missed it but would it not have been prudent to sell the original interior and buy a half-decent pair of race seats
Yep I know it has to be suitable for day to day use, so I’m sure you could pick up a cheap back seat to retain its ability to carry kids etc.

[mooseracer]

martin12345 said:

240 increase over 200 is 20%
a 37% increase would be about 270 BHP

TBH, what you really need is the bigger turbo off Edition 30 or Leaon Cupra which was 230 to 240 BHP as stock
Although (as others have posted) whether the fuel system can then deliver enough fuel might be a problem

40 BHP isn't going to close your gap I dont think

240 at the wheels though which is more than a 40bhp increase over standard.


Back in the day when I had one conventional wisdom was that around 240 at the fly is all you'd get on the standard turbo. Maybe things have changed.

[Cryssys]

martin12345 said:

240 increase over 200 is 20%
a 37% increase would be about 270 BHP

TBH, what you really need is the bigger turbo off Edition 30 or Leaon Cupra which was 230 to 240 BHP as stock
Although (as others have posted) whether the fuel system can then deliver enough fuel might be a problem

40 BHP isn't going to close your gap I dont think

Article states they were making 240 at the wheel after remapping which equates to 273 at the flywheel.

This is compared to the 200 at the flywheel for the stock vehicle hence a 37% increase.

[Baldchap]

martin12345 said:

240 increase over 200 is 20%
a 37% increase would be about 270 BHP

200 is original engine output at the crank (CHP).
240 is current wheel horsepower (WHP).

Transmission losses are the losses between the engine and the wheels (gearbox takes energy to turn, wheel bearings are not lossless etc), so CHP is always lower than WHP.

When a Dyno has been used, the only truly accurate figure is WHP, although a Dyno operator has a number of tools at his disposal to (sometimes fairly accurately, depending on the car) estimate CHP.

Because we don't have the original WHP, we can only compare CHP, which is your 37% difference, or whatever it was.

[Baldchap]

What was it making before the map? They 100% dynod it before mapping.

The cynic in me says it was more than expected (they usually are) and made REVO's advert less impressive...

[NGK210]

Why no ‘before’ power-run on dyno?

Have the inlet valves been inspected?

Mk5 GTIs have direct injection (DI), which, like all DI VAGs, is prone to horrendous carbon buildup.

After 100k miles and 17 years, this car’s inlet valves will be caked in tar-like gunk and calcified carbon, which (obviously) affects power output and delivery.

Shurley it’s best to fix / restore the basics before adding remaps, etc?

[Glenn63]

What’s the blue car outside the workshop?

[Graeme82]

Think they might have blown it not swapping the turbo, or even swapping the engine like someone else said. Appreciate there's a budget but the whole point of scavenging on eBay is to pick up 2nd hand or new, unused stuff on the cheap. Buying off-the-shelf Revo intercoolers (however lovely) is daft when a 2nd hand one off something like an s3 can be had at a fraction of the price.

[MikeM6]

I'm quite enjoying this series. I used to have Leon with this engine that was remapped, so roughly 240hp and 260 lbft, but no other modifications. They thing went quite well, especially in the midrange. This series reminds of my younger days with that car.

There will always be detractors on forums, but I'd say more of this kind of content is good for inspiration. I'm now thinking about heading to eBay to get some bits to make the MGB run better again haha

[JJJ.]

Graeme82 said:

Think they might have blown it not swapping the turbo, or even swapping the engine like someone else said. Appreciate there's a budget but the whole point of scavenging on eBay is to pick up 2nd hand or new, unused stuff on the cheap. Buying off-the-shelf Revo intercoolers (however lovely) is daft when a 2nd hand one off something like an s3 can be had at a fraction of the price.

They're not serious about the so-called budget. This promotion is being carried out the easy way while a few obvious things have not been attended to or even mentioned. Notice too, there's never an issue with any upgrade, not even a snapped bolt or rusted nut to contend with. No minor or unexpected repairs either on old Golf Gti!
Maybe I missed it but there's no actual base BHP figure from the Dyno prior to carrying out the upgrades, strange.
I'd take this and all threads relating to the 10 grand Golf R beater with a pinch of salt.

Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 29th July 15:52

[Graeme82]

JJJ. said:

Graeme82 said:

Think they might have blown it not swapping the turbo, or even swapping the engine like someone else said. Appreciate there's a budget but the whole point of scavenging on eBay is to pick up 2nd hand or new, unused stuff on the cheap. Buying off-the-shelf Revo intercoolers (however lovely) is daft when a 2nd hand one off something like an s3 can be had at a fraction of the price.

They're not serious about the so-called budget. This promotion is being carried out the easy way while a few obvious things have not been attended to or even mentioned. Notice too, there's never an issue with any upgrade, not even a snapped bolt or rusted nut to contend with. No minor or unexpected repairs either on old Golf Gti!
Maybe I missed it but there's no actual base BHP figure from the Dyno prior to carrying out the upgrades, strange.
I'd take this and all threads relating to the 10 grand Golf R beater with a pinch of salt.

Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 29th July 15:52

You're right but it's a shame they didn't put more thought/effort in. I was really interested to see what could be done given all the 2nd hand VAG stuff on eBay and the interchangeability of parts with s3's, fast Leon's, etc. With a half decent set of tools and some proper scavenging you could have probably had 300BHP, an LSD to put it down and a decent chance of winning.

[Glasgowrob]

Graeme82 said:

You're right but it's a shame they didn't put more thought/effort in. I was really interested to see what could be done given all the 2nd hand VAG stuff on eBay and the interchangeability of parts with s3's, fast Leon's, etc. With a half decent set of tools and some proper scavenging you could have probably had 300BHP, an LSD to put it down and a decent chance of winning.

but that wouldnt allow for some fantastic product placement and clawing back many thousands of pounds in advertising fees now would it through paid promos...........


Revo may be happy to splurge a few k on a paid promotion joe bloggs breakers yard - probably not


£3200 for the original car
£800 for a quaife LSD (surprisingly easy to find on ebay.
£850 for a K04 hybrid turbo upgrade setup (again ebay)
£800 for a second hand ap racing setup for the front(used)
£400 for a set of uprated brakes for the rear
£850 for a Bilstein B14 kit
£140 for a set of injectors
£650 for a decent fmic
£750 for a new clutch kit from RST
£800 for some dyno time and a proper remap to bring it all together
leaving £800 for some super sticky track tyres and some odds and sods as required.

and thats just a quick browse (10 mins on ebay)

with a bit of patience you could probably pick up some utter bargains on second hand parts and save even more or go even further.



still an entertaining read but could have done it properly.......


theres a complete turbocharged AAA 2.8 on ebay at the moment if you wanted to be incredibly stupid for a few K 450 bhp a week with the spanners and an still have 4grand for suspension and brakes

Edited by Glasgowrob on Saturday 29th July 18:45

[nismo48]

Well done for the work achieved so far. The Golf is looking good

[Frankychops]

Isn't there a rule where 1 revo HP is worth 0.7HP on any other Dyno?

I'd like the see the before, Air/fuel and ignition, along with the after, along with the correction numbers.

[Graeme82]

Glasgowrob said:

Graeme82 said:

You're right but it's a shame they didn't put more thought/effort in. I was really interested to see what could be done given all the 2nd hand VAG stuff on eBay and the interchangeability of parts with s3's, fast Leon's, etc. With a half decent set of tools and some proper scavenging you could have probably had 300BHP, an LSD to put it down and a decent chance of winning.

but that wouldnt allow for some fantastic product placement and clawing back many thousands of pounds in advertising fees now would it through paid promos...........


Revo may be happy to splurge a few k on a paid promotion joe bloggs breakers yard - probably not


£3200 for the original car
£800 for a quaife LSD (surprisingly easy to find on ebay.
£850 for a K04 hybrid turbo upgrade setup (again ebay)
£800 for a second hand ap racing setup for the front(used)
£400 for a set of uprated brakes for the rear
£850 for a Bilstein B14 kit
£140 for a set of injectors
£650 for a decent fmic
£750 for a new clutch kit from RST
£800 for some dyno time and a proper remap to bring it all together
leaving £800 for some super sticky track tyres and some odds and sods as required.

and thats just a quick browse (10 mins on ebay)

with a bit of patience you could probably pick up some utter bargains on second hand parts and save even more or go even further.



still an entertaining read but could have done it properly.......


theres a complete turbocharged AAA 2.8 on ebay at the moment if you wanted to be incredibly stupid for a few K 450 bhp a week with the spanners and an still have 4grand for suspension and brakes

Edited by Glasgowrob on Saturday 29th July 18:45

And with all that lot it would likely run rings round the Golf R and that would have been fun see.

To be fair to PH there didn't seem much interest in the feature from the outset (judging by the number of comments). But then judging by some of the classified prices on here i'm guessing your average PH reader would probably rather just pay a premium (or dream of paying the premium) than put it all together themselves (although i'm sure there are plenty lurking on the forums that do get their hands dirty).

[JJJ.]

Graeme82 said:

JJJ. said:

Graeme82 said:

Think they might have blown it not swapping the turbo, or even swapping the engine like someone else said. Appreciate there's a budget but the whole point of scavenging on eBay is to pick up 2nd hand or new, unused stuff on the cheap. Buying off-the-shelf Revo intercoolers (however lovely) is daft when a 2nd hand one off something like an s3 can be had at a fraction of the price.

They're not serious about the so-called budget. This promotion is being carried out the easy way while a few obvious things have not been attended to or even mentioned. Notice too, there's never an issue with any upgrade, not even a snapped bolt or rusted nut to contend with. No minor or unexpected repairs either on old Golf Gti!
Maybe I missed it but there's no actual base BHP figure from the Dyno prior to carrying out the upgrades, strange.
I'd take this and all threads relating to the 10 grand Golf R beater with a pinch of salt.

Edited by JJJ. on Saturday 29th July 15:52

You're right but it's a shame they didn't put more thought/effort in.

Indeed. They could have made a really interesting and informative promotion, warts and all.
Upgrading a car's chassis, suspension,brakes and power can be challenging and annoying while proving man maths is for those in denial with short memories until the next 'project' comes along. Ask me how I know...