It's time to scrap the Automatic-only Car Driving Licence
Discussion
I'm wondering why we still have this obsolete discriminatory difference, between cars with and without a clutch pedal.
Years ago, the presence of a clutch pedal was indeed a huge difference. But there are now much bigger differences between cars than that.
You can pass your test on a 2023 manual car with hill-assist (so you never roll back on a hill), and stop-start (supposedly for fuel savings but actually it re-starts your car if you stall it), and throttle control (when you begin to lift the clutch pedal it automatically raises the idle speed), and with that licence you'd be unable to drive a 1995 manual car, because you'd roll back on hills, and frequently stall it and get stuck wondering what to do.
Adding a modern car's clutch pedal to your "automatic-only" skills isn't difficult, compared to adding your old-clutch-pedal skills to your electronic-control modern manual car.
After 2030 instructors won't be able to buy a manual car anyway. The likes of BSM and AA always have new cars.
Years ago, the presence of a clutch pedal was indeed a huge difference. But there are now much bigger differences between cars than that.
You can pass your test on a 2023 manual car with hill-assist (so you never roll back on a hill), and stop-start (supposedly for fuel savings but actually it re-starts your car if you stall it), and throttle control (when you begin to lift the clutch pedal it automatically raises the idle speed), and with that licence you'd be unable to drive a 1995 manual car, because you'd roll back on hills, and frequently stall it and get stuck wondering what to do.
Adding a modern car's clutch pedal to your "automatic-only" skills isn't difficult, compared to adding your old-clutch-pedal skills to your electronic-control modern manual car.
After 2030 instructors won't be able to buy a manual car anyway. The likes of BSM and AA always have new cars.
yes alot of modern cars are much like driving an auto, nevermind what gearbox, but clutch control is an important skill to learn, and there are alot of older cars out there, do you really want people who have never driven a manual driving them?
reminds me of when i lent an aunt of mine my auto car, she had never driven one, and yes she went for the clutch and nearly went through the windscreen, people need to know how to drive either
reminds me of when i lent an aunt of mine my auto car, she had never driven one, and yes she went for the clutch and nearly went through the windscreen, people need to know how to drive either
Clutch control is still a skill that needs to be learned to drive a manual, even with a 2023 manual.
If there was simply a single licence category, learners would soon gravitate to learning and passing their test in an EV, as it offers the simplest and most intuitive longitudinal control.
This would certainly leave them less well equipped to drive ICE cars, even autos but especially manuals.
Would it matter? Not sure. In the US they only have one licence and people do 'teach themselves' with a few stalls to pick up manual driving after having learned and passed on an auto.
So I definitely think there's an extra skill involved, but whether it's worth requiring people to prove to the state, not sure.
M4cruiser said:
Adding a modern car's clutch pedal to your "automatic-only" skills isn't difficult
Just try telling that to somebody who only has experience of automatic vehicles and has never driven a manual.Driving with a manual gearbox is easy, but it can be the hardest thing in the world for somebody who is completely new to it.
Yes there most likely will come a time when manual gearbox tests are scrapped, but it is ridiculous to suggest that time is now.
Also I think the 2030 deadline for selling new IC engine vehicles will be pushed back because it is unreasonably short.
It was if I remember correctly supposed to be 2035 then they ambitiously brought it forward by 5 years.
The UK plays such a small and insignificant part to the worlds greenhouse gases etc, so I dont know why we are even bothering.
Edited by Ron240 on Friday 4th August 21:06
Why on earth would one learn on anything with electronic nannying?
Just learn hill starts, clutch control, handbrake control, and all the other bits that make up proper driving.
I don't like electronic driving aids. (And I don't want a phone connection or blue tooth, or crazy lights, or a light bar across the back of the 'look at me' car (really what is that all about), or electronic handbrakes, or hill assist, or adaptive cruise control, or lane departure, or automatic wipers, or traffic warnings, or emergency braking b
ks, or crash emergency services alert, or pretty much any of the rubbish that I might be forced to buy in the future).
What's wrong with people that they can't manage these things themselves?
(Wouldn't mind a robot to clean the bog though).
Just learn hill starts, clutch control, handbrake control, and all the other bits that make up proper driving.
I don't like electronic driving aids. (And I don't want a phone connection or blue tooth, or crazy lights, or a light bar across the back of the 'look at me' car (really what is that all about), or electronic handbrakes, or hill assist, or adaptive cruise control, or lane departure, or automatic wipers, or traffic warnings, or emergency braking b
ks, or crash emergency services alert, or pretty much any of the rubbish that I might be forced to buy in the future).What's wrong with people that they can't manage these things themselves?
(Wouldn't mind a robot to clean the bog though).
M4cruiser said:
You can pass your test on a 2023 manual car with hill-assist (so you never roll back on a hill),
Ever begun to move off and changed your mind, like for instance someone approaching faster than originally anticipated? (probably not, PH is full of driving gods). Quite likely a learner will though and with hill assist now disengaged they will roll back if they don't possess the skills to use the clutch.I think people who want/need to learn to drive a manual will do so irrespective of what licence you give them, and people who don't, increasingly won't.
My opinion is that giving people a manual licence even if they took the test in an auto wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to anything, so I don't see it as a problem.
My opinion is that giving people a manual licence even if they took the test in an auto wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to anything, so I don't see it as a problem.
M4cruiser said:
I'm wondering why we still have this obsolete discriminatory difference, between cars with and without a clutch pedal.
Years ago, the presence of a clutch pedal was indeed a huge difference. But there are now much bigger differences between cars than that.
You can pass your test on a 2023 manual car with hill-assist (so you never roll back on a hill), and stop-start (supposedly for fuel savings but actually it re-starts your car if you stall it), and throttle control (when you begin to lift the clutch pedal it automatically raises the idle speed), and with that licence you'd be unable to drive a 1995 manual car, because you'd roll back on hills, and frequently stall it and get stuck wondering what to do.
Adding a modern car's clutch pedal to your "automatic-only" skills isn't difficult, compared to adding your old-clutch-pedal skills to your electronic-control modern manual car.
After 2030 instructors won't be able to buy a manual car anyway. The likes of BSM and AA always have new cars.
This is the gentle rant of an old man who thinks today’s youth have it too easy. Look in the mirror mate, you are a lot older than you think and you sound like your dad.Years ago, the presence of a clutch pedal was indeed a huge difference. But there are now much bigger differences between cars than that.
You can pass your test on a 2023 manual car with hill-assist (so you never roll back on a hill), and stop-start (supposedly for fuel savings but actually it re-starts your car if you stall it), and throttle control (when you begin to lift the clutch pedal it automatically raises the idle speed), and with that licence you'd be unable to drive a 1995 manual car, because you'd roll back on hills, and frequently stall it and get stuck wondering what to do.
Adding a modern car's clutch pedal to your "automatic-only" skills isn't difficult, compared to adding your old-clutch-pedal skills to your electronic-control modern manual car.
After 2030 instructors won't be able to buy a manual car anyway. The likes of BSM and AA always have new cars.
Ron240 said:
InitialDave said:
My opinion is that giving people a manual licence even if they took the test in an auto wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to anything, so I don't see it as a problem.
That would be even more ridiculous than the original suggestion. The only people who are going to specifically get a manual are going to have the impetus to learn to drive one. Those who are happy with autos will just stick with them. I don't think much will change even if the latter were allowed to drive a manual.
There'll be manuals well after 2030. I'm a bit fed up that the media keep reporting 'no more petrol or diesel cars' after 2030 like it's a sort of Armageddon, conveniently failing to mention hybrids are on sale until 2035, but hey, hysteria sells. 
I think the 2035 cut-off may be put back, but almost half of all new cars sold are now EVs or hybrids already.
I think the 2035 cut-off may be put back, but almost half of all new cars sold are now EVs or hybrids already.
David87 said:
I agree - I’d scrap the two different licences and leave it down to the driver to learn manual if they so wish. Do any other countries differentiate between the two in the way we do?
USA don't, a car test pass in any gets you a licence to drive any, up to high tonnage too apparently. 
bearman68 said:
Why on earth would one learn on anything with electronic nannying?
Just learn hill starts, clutch control, handbrake control, and all the other bits that make up proper driving.
I don't like electronic driving aids. (And I don't want a phone connection or blue tooth, or crazy lights, or a light bar across the back of the 'look at me' car (really what is that all about), or electronic handbrakes, or hill assist, or adaptive cruise control, or lane departure, or automatic wipers, or traffic warnings, or emergency braking bks, or crash emergency services alert, or pretty much any of the rubbish that I might be forced to buy in the future).
What's wrong with people that they can't manage these things themselves?
(Wouldn't mind a robot to clean the bog though).
This. Just learn hill starts, clutch control, handbrake control, and all the other bits that make up proper driving.
I don't like electronic driving aids. (And I don't want a phone connection or blue tooth, or crazy lights, or a light bar across the back of the 'look at me' car (really what is that all about), or electronic handbrakes, or hill assist, or adaptive cruise control, or lane departure, or automatic wipers, or traffic warnings, or emergency braking b
ks, or crash emergency services alert, or pretty much any of the rubbish that I might be forced to buy in the future).What's wrong with people that they can't manage these things themselves?
(Wouldn't mind a robot to clean the bog though).
I don't get the modern outlook that everything is dumbed down and has to be easy. No one wants to take time to learn anything anymore it seems.
There again, I drive a late 90s car as my daily so I'm clearly a dinosaur.
A happy dinosaur though
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