Category S definetely Structural???

[phardy]

Sorry if this has been asked before but after an answer to a specific question from people in the trade who definetely know. Cat S seems to imply there is structural damage to the chasis or a crumple zone. Would a rear bumper or suspension arm on a GT4 count as this or would you expect that to be CAT N? If its registered as cat S is it definetely structural or are they hit and miss with the accuracy of their inspections/reports? TIA.

[Roboticarm]

When you say GT4... Are we talking about a 90s Toyota or a modern Porsche ?

[phardy]

718 Porsche.

[Paddymcc]

phardy said:

Sorry if this has been asked before but after an answer to a specific question from people in the trade who definetely know. Cat S seems to imply there is structural damage to the chasis or a crumple zone. Would a rear bumper or suspension arm on a GT4 count as this or would you expect that to be CAT N? If its registered as cat S is it definetely structural or are they hit and miss with the accuracy of their inspections/reports? TIA.

S is usually something structural into parts that aren't typically bolt on/off plus airbags from my experience having fixed damaged cars / vans. A Berlingo van I fixed with Cat S needed a headlight panel cut out and and new one welded back into place.

Simple bumper damage and a bent arm wouldn't typically be S. As an example I bought a jaguar xkr that had a dent on the rear quarter panel wheel lip and bent rear tracking arm and that was cat N. Fixed for £300.

However it's very hit and miss and subjective to the person doing the checking and recording the damage.



If you're looking at it on Copart make sure it's from an insurance company and it hasn't been bought by someone with heavy damage, tarted up and put back through the auction.

[Mr Tidy]

Here's a link to an update on ABI categories from some clown at Aviva who probably never leaves his office other than to go to the kharsi, pub, or home!

https://atfpro.co.uk/update-on-the-abi-salvage-cod...

I'm not sure he know how many wheels most cars have!

My nephews BMW E46 was given a Cat S marker by Admiral when all it needed was a bonnet and pattern front wing from Ebay! Not based on any sort of inspection of the car, just a few photos from his phone. It's like they couldn't be bothered.

A few months ago Hastings decided my BMW E90 was a Cat N because the rear bumper got a slight crack thanks to their policyholder running into it.

Their "nominated repairer" created a greedy estimate and Hastings didn't bother to send anyone to look at it.






I asked them what they would offer with no Cat N - they snottily replied "that wasn't an option".

Then I found out it had a Cat N marker on before they bothered to tell me they thought it wasn't an economic repair.

Their valuation was insulting, their revised figure was little better and they refused to increase on that.

Basically I got worn down and took what I could get.

But I'd never. ever insure a car with any insurer based in Kent!

[e-honda]

Mr Tidy said:

Here's a link to an update on ABI categories from some clown at Aviva who probably never leaves his office other than to go to the kharsi, pub, or home!

https://atfpro.co.uk/update-on-the-abi-salvage-cod...

I'm not sure he know how many wheels most cars have!

My nephews BMW E46 was given a Cat S marker by Admiral when all it needed was a bonnet and pattern front wing from Ebay! Not based on any sort of inspection of the car, just a few photos from his phone. It's like they couldn't be bothered.

A few months ago Hastings decided my BMW E90 was a Cat N because the rear bumper got a slight crack thanks to their policyholder running into it.

Their "nominated repairer" created a greedy estimate and Hastings didn't bother to send anyone to look at it.






I asked them what they would offer with no Cat N - they snottily replied "that wasn't an option".

Then I found out it had a Cat N marker on before they bothered to tell me they thought it wasn't an economic repair.

Their valuation was insulting, their revised figure was little better and they refused to increase on that.

Basically I got worn down and took what I could get.

But I'd never. ever insure a car with any insurer based in Kent!

Should have dug your heals in and refused to allow them to deal with the claim as a total loss and insisted on a repair
contribution equivalent to the valuation minus the salvage. It's your car, your property a 3rd party insurer has no right to take ownership of your car, if you refuse to allow them they cannot deal with it as a total loss claim, but they still ow you reasonable compensation.

Hastings is in Sussex not Kent

[LuS1fer]

There are hundreds of cat S cars on Marketplace and, annoyingly, they are often immaculate and have minor or no advisories on the MOT history. Many are being sold by traders.

Still makes me swerve away from buying though.

[Gad-Westy]

LuS1fer said:

There are hundreds of cat S cars on Marketplace and, annoyingly, they are often immaculate and have minor or no advisories on the MOT history. Many are being sold by traders.

Still makes me swerve away from buying though.

I wonder if the stigma attached to 'cat' cars will start to change. So many cars are now written off for next to nothing. A member of my family's Yaris had its bonnet and front bumper stolen one night. Car was about 4 years old so had plenty of value but was written off due to lead time on new parts. I think this sort of scenario is not that uncommon now.

[Krikkit]

Once upon a time the markers were based on the %age of repair vs estimated value.

They changed the categories around for Cat.S etc, but I'd be shocked if it's changed fundamentally from where it was, possibly they nudge what would be an old Cat.D with something like sill damage into a Cat.S, but otherwise I bet it's still the old value map.

Once upon a time it was:
Cat D - Repair + costs >= 100% value
Cat C - 100% < Repair+costs > 200%
Cat B - Repair+costs > 200%

Cat A was reserved for something like a really messy death, so heavily contaminated and not really suitable, so straight to the crusher.

[s94wht]

Krikkit said:

Once upon a time the markers were based on the %age of repair vs estimated value.

They changed the categories around for Cat.S etc, but I'd be shocked if it's changed fundamentally from where it was, possibly they nudge what would be an old Cat.D with something like sill damage into a Cat.S, but otherwise I bet it's still the old value map.

Once upon a time it was:
Cat D - Repair + costs >= 100% value
Cat C - 100% < Repair+costs < 200%
Cat B - Repair+costs > 200%

Cat A was reserved for something like a really messy death, so heavily contaminated and not really suitable, so straight to the crusher.

FTFY

[5lab]

Any damage to the monocoque counts. Most modern cars anything on the cills, rear 3/4 panel, roof, floor etc and it will be s. Often this can be repaired or just fillered, but a proper job is expensive

[Mr Tidy]

e-honda said:

Should have dug your heals in and refused to allow them to deal with the claim as a total loss and insisted on a repair
contribution equivalent to the valuation minus the salvage. It's your car, your property a 3rd party insurer has no right to take ownership of your car, if you refuse to allow them they cannot deal with it as a total loss claim, but they still ow you reasonable compensation.

Hastings is in Sussex not Kent

I worked handling General Insurance claims form 1980 to 2010 so believe me the outcome wasn't due to any lack of effort on my part!

When I was handling Motor Claims between 1980 and 1995 we never, ever put a Cat marker on a claim for a car owned by a Third Party and never even contemplated taking the "salvage".

But it seems the world has moved on and while they never got their hands on my car I couldn't find any precedent to stop them classifying it as BER or putting a Cat N marker on it.

I claimed against the guy that hit me because I didn't want to fund an excess or have an ongoing unsettled claim I would have to declare when renewal came up on my other car the next month.

But had I claimed against my own insurer and got that sort of treatment I would have involved the Ombudsman.

At the end of the day I still have a car with minimal damage that runs great and a chunk of money in the bank. And from what I've seen being a Cat N doesn't affect the value much on a 2005 car!

Apologies for putting Hastings in the wrong county though (pedant).

[e-honda]

Mr Tidy said:

I worked handling General Insurance claims form 1980 to 2010 so believe me the outcome wasn't due to any lack of effort on my part!

When I was handling Motor Claims between 1980 and 1995 we never, ever put a Cat marker on a claim for a car owned by a Third Party and never even contemplated taking the "salvage".

But it seems the world has moved on and while they never got their hands on my car I couldn't find any precedent to stop them classifying it as BER or putting a Cat N marker on it.

I claimed against the guy that hit me because I didn't want to fund an excess or have an ongoing unsettled claim I would have to declare when renewal came up on my other car the next month.

But had I claimed against my own insurer and got that sort of treatment I would have involved the Ombudsman.

At the end of the day I still have a car with minimal damage that runs great and a chunk of money in the bank. And from what I've seen being a Cat N doesn't affect the value much on a 2005 car!

Apologies for putting Hastings in the wrong county though (pedant).

Tell them to remove the marker, Put in a complaint to their data protection officer, unless you agreed to it being settled as a total loss and bough back the salvage then it was not a total loss and it would be inaccurate to record it as such.
Worst they can say is no. I believe Hastings direct out source all their claims handling but their data protection officer will likely be in house, dealing with someone with a reputation to protect might get you a very different sort of response.