Insurance insanity
Discussion
Here's a new one to me.... Curious to hear if anyones come across this before!
I've moved to a corner of London, having lived in the suburbs the last few years. Closer to work, closer to friends and I missed the poor air quality with obscene motoring costs - had a few reasons to be in the city again.
Car insurance expectedly went up a chunk, but palatable.
Motorbike insurance now I'm in the market for buying a bike again - I knew would be ridiculous. Motorbike theft in London has been rife and really problematic for a while now. £6800 motorbike, cheapest insurance quote I can get is £7000. Annoying, but... this isnt the insane bit.
I want to keep the motorbike at my parents home on their drive out in the sticks, so that I can go for weekend rides with friends out in the countrside and on a couple of European tours this year. It will be kept at their house, it will stay there and it quite genuinely wont come to London at all.
When I lived with my parents temporally during lockdown, it cost me about £800 a year for a policy for a very similar bike I previously owned. Comparison sites are quoting me about the same cost now.
When I called adrian flux and Bennett's today to get some quotes from them and I provide my London home address, explaining the bike will be not kept there and will instead be at my parents house 7 days a week.
They both had all underwriters require it is kept in a locked garage, as it isn't my residential address. Which I thought was a bit odd...
But this is the mad bit. The cheapest quote was £3900....!!!!
When I've asked why the quotes are so high when I have quotes for £800 if I lived at my parents - the explanation both brokers gave me was that the insurers will still factor my London residential address, regardless of whether I intend to keep the bike there at all. I even asked if we could add a clause to say it wont be covered for theft if it is ever kept overnight in London and was told no.
Someone tell me this isnt beyond illogical and insane?
Hoping there might be some brokers and underwriters out there that have a bit more of a common sense approach... but not holding my breath given how reliable AF and Bennetts usually are with good quotes.
I've moved to a corner of London, having lived in the suburbs the last few years. Closer to work, closer to friends and I missed the poor air quality with obscene motoring costs - had a few reasons to be in the city again.
Car insurance expectedly went up a chunk, but palatable.
Motorbike insurance now I'm in the market for buying a bike again - I knew would be ridiculous. Motorbike theft in London has been rife and really problematic for a while now. £6800 motorbike, cheapest insurance quote I can get is £7000. Annoying, but... this isnt the insane bit.
I want to keep the motorbike at my parents home on their drive out in the sticks, so that I can go for weekend rides with friends out in the countrside and on a couple of European tours this year. It will be kept at their house, it will stay there and it quite genuinely wont come to London at all.
When I lived with my parents temporally during lockdown, it cost me about £800 a year for a policy for a very similar bike I previously owned. Comparison sites are quoting me about the same cost now.
When I called adrian flux and Bennett's today to get some quotes from them and I provide my London home address, explaining the bike will be not kept there and will instead be at my parents house 7 days a week.
They both had all underwriters require it is kept in a locked garage, as it isn't my residential address. Which I thought was a bit odd...
But this is the mad bit. The cheapest quote was £3900....!!!!
When I've asked why the quotes are so high when I have quotes for £800 if I lived at my parents - the explanation both brokers gave me was that the insurers will still factor my London residential address, regardless of whether I intend to keep the bike there at all. I even asked if we could add a clause to say it wont be covered for theft if it is ever kept overnight in London and was told no.
Someone tell me this isnt beyond illogical and insane?
Hoping there might be some brokers and underwriters out there that have a bit more of a common sense approach... but not holding my breath given how reliable AF and Bennetts usually are with good quotes.
Edited by Alextodrive on Wednesday 3rd April 02:57
Alextodrive said:
Here's a new one to me.... Curious to hear if anyones come across this before!
I've moved to a corner of London, having lived in the suburbs the last few years. Closer to work, closer to friends and I missed the poor air quality with obscene motoring costs - had a few reasons to be in the city again.
Car insurance expectedly went up a chunk, but palatable.
Motorbike insurance now I'm in the market for buying a bike again - I knew would be ridiculous. Motorbike theft in London has been rife and really problematic for a while now. £6800 motorbike, cheapest insurance quote I can get is £7000. Annoying, but... this isnt the insane bit.
I want to keep the motorbike at my parents home on their drive out in the sticks, so that I can go for weekend rides with friends out in the countrside and on a couple of European tours this year. It will be kept at their house, it will stay there and it quite genuinely wont come to London at all.
When I lived with my parents temporally during lockdown, it cost me about £800 a year for a policy for a very similar bike I previously owned. Comparison sites are quoting me about the same cost now.
When I called adrian flux and Bennett's today to get some quotes from them and I provide my London home address, explaining the bike will be not kept there and will instead be at my parents house 7 days a week.
They both had all underwriters require it is kept in a locked garage, as it isn't my residential address. Which I thought was a bit odd...
But this is the mad bit. The cheapest quote was £3900....!!!!
When I've asked why the quotes are so high when I have quotes for £800 if I lived at my parents - the explanation both brokers gave me was that the insurers will still factor my London residential address, regardless of whether I intend to keep the bike there at all. I even asked if we could add a clause to say it wont be covered for theft if it is ever kept overnight in London and was told no.
Someone tell me this isnt beyond illogical and insane?
Hoping there might be some brokers and underwriters out there that have a bit more of a common sense approach... but not holding my breath given how reliable AF and Bennetts usually are with good quotes.
The underwriters are better at factoring risk than you are.I've moved to a corner of London, having lived in the suburbs the last few years. Closer to work, closer to friends and I missed the poor air quality with obscene motoring costs - had a few reasons to be in the city again.
Car insurance expectedly went up a chunk, but palatable.
Motorbike insurance now I'm in the market for buying a bike again - I knew would be ridiculous. Motorbike theft in London has been rife and really problematic for a while now. £6800 motorbike, cheapest insurance quote I can get is £7000. Annoying, but... this isnt the insane bit.
I want to keep the motorbike at my parents home on their drive out in the sticks, so that I can go for weekend rides with friends out in the countrside and on a couple of European tours this year. It will be kept at their house, it will stay there and it quite genuinely wont come to London at all.
When I lived with my parents temporally during lockdown, it cost me about £800 a year for a policy for a very similar bike I previously owned. Comparison sites are quoting me about the same cost now.
When I called adrian flux and Bennett's today to get some quotes from them and I provide my London home address, explaining the bike will be not kept there and will instead be at my parents house 7 days a week.
They both had all underwriters require it is kept in a locked garage, as it isn't my residential address. Which I thought was a bit odd...
But this is the mad bit. The cheapest quote was £3900....!!!!
When I've asked why the quotes are so high when I have quotes for £800 if I lived at my parents - the explanation both brokers gave me was that the insurers will still factor my London residential address, regardless of whether I intend to keep the bike there at all. I even asked if we could add a clause to say it wont be covered for theft if it is ever kept overnight in London and was told no.
Someone tell me this isnt beyond illogical and insane?
Hoping there might be some brokers and underwriters out there that have a bit more of a common sense approach... but not holding my breath given how reliable AF and Bennetts usually are with good quotes.
Edited by Alextodrive on Wednesday 3rd April 02:57
Don't feel bad about it. They are doing it professionally.
They are basing it on its likely to be in London, and London has, in a lot of places become a cess pit of criminality and anything on two wheels is front and centre in that.
Not sure how anyone on a normal wage manages to have any transport in London other than public, or a bicycle, which is likely to get nicked as well.
Not sure how anyone on a normal wage manages to have any transport in London other than public, or a bicycle, which is likely to get nicked as well.
CraigyMc said:
markymarkthree said:
Is it poss to sell the bike to your dad, have him insure it and have you as a named rider ?
Yes. That's fronting though, unless his dad genuinely does ride it more.Not fronting them I don’t think? And certainly cheaper than £3800!!
CraigyMc said:
The underwriters are better at factoring risk than you are.
Don't feel bad about it. They are doing it professionally.
Doing something professionally doesn’t always mean they’re right. Profession simply means they’re being paid to do it. Don't feel bad about it. They are doing it professionally.
Given admirals increasing profits, despite insuring less cars, suggests they are taking no risks at all.
thepritch said:
CraigyMc said:
The underwriters are better at factoring risk than you are.
Don't feel bad about it. They are doing it professionally.
Doing something professionally doesn’t always mean they’re right. Profession simply means they’re being paid to do it. Don't feel bad about it. They are doing it professionally.
Given admirals increasing profits, despite insuring less cars, suggests they are taking no risks at all.
I think you're proving the point.Id add a couple of quick points with the conversation that’s happened
There are ways around this - but they all involve dishonesty, however minor. Which is not a world I’m ever personally getting into with insurance companies.
The point they might be factoring in me bringing the bike to London. So I can and did that when I lived in the suburbs often anyway. I had business insurance and I work in london. It was cheaper for a fireblade than it is now with a cheaper non sports bike.
I asked if putting a tracker on it, so they can see the bike isn’t being kept in London. I asked if they could add an exemption to it being kept in London overnight.
And the answer was all no.
And while yes, you could argue they know better,
What we’re saying is if I lived where the bike was being kept overnight it would be £800 a year
By living away from the exact same place the bike will be kept, it’s £3900 a year.
Make it make sense. 😂
There are ways around this - but they all involve dishonesty, however minor. Which is not a world I’m ever personally getting into with insurance companies.
The point they might be factoring in me bringing the bike to London. So I can and did that when I lived in the suburbs often anyway. I had business insurance and I work in london. It was cheaper for a fireblade than it is now with a cheaper non sports bike.
I asked if putting a tracker on it, so they can see the bike isn’t being kept in London. I asked if they could add an exemption to it being kept in London overnight.
And the answer was all no.
And while yes, you could argue they know better,
What we’re saying is if I lived where the bike was being kept overnight it would be £800 a year
By living away from the exact same place the bike will be kept, it’s £3900 a year.
Make it make sense. 😂
It is daft isn't it.
My bike insurance within London was bonkers and basically unaffordable despite no claims, old, have ridden since the 1970s.
My Vespa was £400 a year Third party only so no payout if stolen. No real risk. This was in 2018, lard knows what it would be now.
Moved to the outskirts, got a garage and it dropped to £80 fully comp, despite the fact I was still riding into London.
My current Triumph is reasonable but it's still parked up in that there London most days.
Although you have gone for the sensible option, their systems don't like it if the vehicle is not with the owner at night.
Can you not be renting with your parents? What do people who live between two residences do?
My bike insurance within London was bonkers and basically unaffordable despite no claims, old, have ridden since the 1970s.
My Vespa was £400 a year Third party only so no payout if stolen. No real risk. This was in 2018, lard knows what it would be now.
Moved to the outskirts, got a garage and it dropped to £80 fully comp, despite the fact I was still riding into London.
My current Triumph is reasonable but it's still parked up in that there London most days.
Although you have gone for the sensible option, their systems don't like it if the vehicle is not with the owner at night.
Can you not be renting with your parents? What do people who live between two residences do?
Firstly comparing prices to those of a few years ago is slightly academic.
Well documented how much Insurance just like most things has increased since Covid.
Insurers have no doubt been caught out many times by people insuring vehicles at one address but in reality living elsewhere and where the vehicle then gets stolen from.
That said clearly prices in the suburbs will be cheaper than London.
Bennett’s are as you say the recognised bike broker but are there others you could talk to ?
Well documented how much Insurance just like most things has increased since Covid.
Insurers have no doubt been caught out many times by people insuring vehicles at one address but in reality living elsewhere and where the vehicle then gets stolen from.
That said clearly prices in the suburbs will be cheaper than London.
Bennett’s are as you say the recognised bike broker but are there others you could talk to ?
alscar said:
Firstly comparing prices to those of a few years ago is slightly academic.
Well documented how much Insurance just like most things has increased since Covid.
Insurers have no doubt been caught out many times by people insuring vehicles at one address but in reality living elsewhere and where the vehicle then gets stolen from.
That said clearly prices in the suburbs will be cheaper than London.
Bennett’s are as you say the recognised bike broker but are there others you could talk to ?
To add some extra contextWell documented how much Insurance just like most things has increased since Covid.
Insurers have no doubt been caught out many times by people insuring vehicles at one address but in reality living elsewhere and where the vehicle then gets stolen from.
That said clearly prices in the suburbs will be cheaper than London.
Bennett’s are as you say the recognised bike broker but are there others you could talk to ?
I have this exact same situation with a car I own. It lives on my parents drive, and is insured there.
Insurance for the car was mad in London and I don’t need it here
Insurance for the suburbs, despite me living in London, was not a factor that made any difference
Why does it now matter for a motorbike. When it didn’t matter for a car, that would have been more expensive in London
It’s the same scenario.
And I did also make the original point - the insurance was during lockdown I refer to. We’re not talking 5-10 years ago.
And the price right now is £800 vs £3900 depending on whether I’m ‘living’ at the address the bike is being kept at
My car is not covered if I keep it in London overnight
Why is this bike insurance any different? Why does it hike simply because I don’t live where I’m asking it to be insured
We’re suggesting they’re hiking the price in case I’m committing insurance fraud. Which they didn’t do for the car (despite a hirer premium in London I would be paying).
None of this makes any legitimate sense.
Alextodrive said:
To add some extra context
I have this exact same situation with a car I own. It lives on my parents drive, and is insured there.
Insurance for the car was mad in London and I don’t need it here
Insurance for the suburbs, despite me living in London, was not a factor that made any difference
Why does it now matter for a motorbike. When it didn’t matter for a car, that would have been more expensive in London
It’s the same scenario.
And I did also make the original point - the insurance was during lockdown I refer to. We’re not talking 5-10 years ago.
And the price right now is £800 vs £3900 depending on whether I’m ‘living’ at the address the bike is being kept at
My car is not covered if I keep it in London overnight
Why is this bike insurance any different? Why does it hike simply because I don’t live where I’m asking it to be insured
We’re suggesting they’re hiking the price in case I’m committing insurance fraud. Which they didn’t do for the car (despite a hirer premium in London I would be paying).
None of this makes any legitimate sense.
Perhaps bikes are “ simply “ more of a problem than whatever car you had insured previously ?I have this exact same situation with a car I own. It lives on my parents drive, and is insured there.
Insurance for the car was mad in London and I don’t need it here
Insurance for the suburbs, despite me living in London, was not a factor that made any difference
Why does it now matter for a motorbike. When it didn’t matter for a car, that would have been more expensive in London
It’s the same scenario.
And I did also make the original point - the insurance was during lockdown I refer to. We’re not talking 5-10 years ago.
And the price right now is £800 vs £3900 depending on whether I’m ‘living’ at the address the bike is being kept at
My car is not covered if I keep it in London overnight
Why is this bike insurance any different? Why does it hike simply because I don’t live where I’m asking it to be insured
We’re suggesting they’re hiking the price in case I’m committing insurance fraud. Which they didn’t do for the car (despite a hirer premium in London I would be paying).
None of this makes any legitimate sense.
Car insurers results have been awful the last few years and I can only assume bike insurers are worse.
When you put in your details on the comparison site did you give your address as suburbs or London ie did the addresses match or were different ?
thepritch said:
CraigyMc said:
The underwriters are better at factoring risk than you are.
Don't feel bad about it. They are doing it professionally.
Doing something professionally doesn’t always mean they’re right. Profession simply means they’re being paid to do it. Don't feel bad about it. They are doing it professionally.
Given admirals increasing profits, despite insuring less cars, suggests they are taking no risks at all.
These threads always go the same way. PH experts telling us it's all a con and insurers just make figures up. You've got to wonder why none of them have started a business offering cheap insurance. It's a price driven market so you would clean up.
The 'sense' of it is based on a lack of data. Insurers love data as they can predict the chance of something happening. When things become unusual, they don't have enough data to predict it, so they take a worst case scenario.
Insurers have lots of data about people keeping their vehicle at their home, and far far less data where people keep it somewhere else. In some of the latter cases, their data will show that the policyholder will have been lying about where they kept their vehicle to get the cost down. Thus, quotes which probably don't truly reflect the risk.
The only answer is to keep shopping around and hopefully find an underwriter who takes a more pragmatic view, but those are few and far between when dealing with personal insurances.
Insurers have lots of data about people keeping their vehicle at their home, and far far less data where people keep it somewhere else. In some of the latter cases, their data will show that the policyholder will have been lying about where they kept their vehicle to get the cost down. Thus, quotes which probably don't truly reflect the risk.
The only answer is to keep shopping around and hopefully find an underwriter who takes a more pragmatic view, but those are few and far between when dealing with personal insurances.
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