Thieving bar stewards
Discussion
This is beyond a joke now.
For the price of VED we should have billiard table smooth roads.
I feel it’s a form of victimisation when a car that was registered a few months earlier in cures a fraction of the VED of my car. I have owned it now for ten years when the difference was nowhere near what it is now.
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For the price of VED we should have billiard table smooth roads.
I feel it’s a form of victimisation when a car that was registered a few months earlier in cures a fraction of the VED of my car. I have owned it now for ten years when the difference was nowhere near what it is now.
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g7jtk said:
For the price of VED we should have billiard table smooth roads.
You should, maybe, but what about all those people paying less than £700 per year, or even (gasp) NOTHING AT ALL?You're subsidising all those freeloaders! They're the ones abusing your generosity, not the council.
Doofus said:
You should, maybe, but what about all those people paying less than £700 per year, or even (gasp) NOTHING AT ALL?
You're subsidising all those freeloaders! They're the ones abusing your generosity, not the council.
And cyclists. Don’t pay road tax.You're subsidising all those freeloaders! They're the ones abusing your generosity, not the council.
(I feel your pain, and it just goes with everything else that is going up it seems, apart from my savings and salary. My bike is by far the ‘cheaper’ mode of transport)
the car must be something fruity to incur the top tax band...
i'm trying hard to keep my fun cars either older than 2005, or in a few years time, newer than 2017, to avoid the incredibly expensive road tax years - especially when my fun cars are used all year round, and only do a couple thousand miles a year.
had an 03 BMW Z4, a 53 plate Nissan 350z, and now in an 05 boxster. all of which would be £700 a year tax had they have been made a couple of years later.
i'm trying hard to keep my fun cars either older than 2005, or in a few years time, newer than 2017, to avoid the incredibly expensive road tax years - especially when my fun cars are used all year round, and only do a couple thousand miles a year.
had an 03 BMW Z4, a 53 plate Nissan 350z, and now in an 05 boxster. all of which would be £700 a year tax had they have been made a couple of years later.
brillomaster said:
the car must be something fruity to incur the top tax band...
My SL350 (a 3.5l V6 315bhp) is in it. If it was pre 2007 or post 2012 (not sure) it’d be half the price. Mrs DS has the exact same engine in her 2005 SLK. And it’s 320 cheaper. And don’t get me started on motorbikes - both ours are fitted with catalytic converters, cause next to no pollution etc aaaaaand they’re over £100 each a year, yet something like an Aygo or diesel Yaris is free/£20/£35. Tte system is totally f
ked up. The five vehicles in my PH “garage” cost more to tax than insure. That’s not right.
thepritch said:
And cyclists. Don’t pay road tax.
(I feel your pain, and it just goes with everything else that is going up it seems, apart from my savings and salary. My bike is by far the ‘cheaper’ mode of transport)
This is awesome news that cyclists don't pay road tax!!(I feel your pain, and it just goes with everything else that is going up it seems, apart from my savings and salary. My bike is by far the ‘cheaper’ mode of transport)
Any idea how I claim back the £560 that I've paid for my car? Do I have to provide evidence of how far I've cycled in the tax year? I can't see anything on the self-assessment form.
Had to laugh when someone in some £20 tax 1 litre puddle jumper shouted at me to pay road tax whilst I was on my bike. Yeah, like I'm only paying 28 times as much tax as you are!
It is bloody annoying when you do low mileage or have multiple vehicles (can only drive one at a time, after all), and you're taxed on a potential environmental impact that isn't aligned with the reality of your use profile.
But I'm not sure I'd want it amortised onto fuel instead, as they'd no doubt find a way to ream you even harder overall, and then the classic stuff that's currently tax free would cost a lot more to run.
Tbh I'd probably be less irritated if they just admitted it was a charge of as much as they can get away with because they need the money, rather than the guff of how it's because of emissions.
This has got to be absolutely crippling when cars in the top bands are firmly into shed territory, though I suppose if you catch them at the right time it potentially means a cheap source of meaty engines for swapping into other stuff or kit cars.
But I'm not sure I'd want it amortised onto fuel instead, as they'd no doubt find a way to ream you even harder overall, and then the classic stuff that's currently tax free would cost a lot more to run.
Tbh I'd probably be less irritated if they just admitted it was a charge of as much as they can get away with because they need the money, rather than the guff of how it's because of emissions.
This has got to be absolutely crippling when cars in the top bands are firmly into shed territory, though I suppose if you catch them at the right time it potentially means a cheap source of meaty engines for swapping into other stuff or kit cars.
lancslad58 said:
CraigyMc said:
g7jtk said:
For the price of VED we should have billiard table smooth roads.
It's mostly being spent on paying pensioners their pensions, since VED isn't ringfenced.I think demographics will just keep pushing the date you start collecting one further and further out until people really just stop working due to ill health at whatever age that happens. Obviously it's gone from 60-68 for women and 65-68 for men so far, but it'll keep going. Private pensions have already gone from 55 to 57 before you can start collecting, so it's not just about state pension cost either; the state needs workers to work to keep the ball rolling.
Anyway, VED isn't road tax so has no direct impact on how good/bad roads are (also ignoring that local roads are paid for locally and arterial ones are paid for centrally).
On thread, I do think VED should reflect the amount of damage the vehicle is doing to road infra - 80K mile per year HGVs should pay for the miles at the weight they are. Likewise 4000 mile, 1000kg sportscars, but that means I'd pay 10p a year instead of over £700.
HGVs do a staggering amount of road damage compared to cars, like 10,000 times to >100,000 times more depending on the car and truck. Worth reading up on. Clearly it would be pretty inflationary to bring in higher HGV charges and could go badly wrong if introduced in the wrong way, but if done over time and with some care it could ultimately lead to a bit more efficiency. (It'd be amusing to find that canals become useful again simply because of cost). Rail may become a bit more attractive (even though the UK rail industry is a fighty octopus of unions and regs). Of course, unintended consequences might lead to unintended consequences like stuff going via aviation or splitting into several vans rather than HGVs. Need to be careful there.
This winds up being an argument for/against charging-per-mile for road use, and that's a lead balloon issue with just about everyone.
We're still better off here than in various other countries. Ireland's road tax is mental for fast stuff, for example.
Edited to add:
UK Road tax, 2013 Exige V6, 2024: £710
Irish Motor tax, 2013 Exige V6, 2024: €2400 (which is £2064 at today's exchange rate).
Edited by CraigyMc on Friday 10th May 09:30
You have a discovery 3 after March 2006 or an early Discovery 4.
Quite glad my 2004 Discovery 3 is the “cheaper tax” bracket, it’s £385 or so a year.
It’s nonsense though as they picked a date on the calander and said cars before this are X ved and cars after it are Y ved.
For a Discovery 3, the cars in X and Y are identical for emissions etc. but one is considerably more expensive.
Quite glad my 2004 Discovery 3 is the “cheaper tax” bracket, it’s £385 or so a year.
It’s nonsense though as they picked a date on the calander and said cars before this are X ved and cars after it are Y ved.
For a Discovery 3, the cars in X and Y are identical for emissions etc. but one is considerably more expensive.
CraigyMc said:
HGVs do a staggering amount of road damage compared to cars, like 10,000 times to >100,000 times more depending on the car and truck. Worth reading up on.
Have you any links to start understanding this? I’ve not read into this, just cursory statements keep appearing from supposed reliable researchers suggest an HGV doesn’t do anywhere near the damage we think they do. (I work in auto and hear it said from colleagues). I can’t quite believe that an HGV doesn’t do much damage, but would like to see some decent research to show facts. Thanks.
thepritch said:
Doofus said:
You should, maybe, but what about all those people paying less than £700 per year, or even (gasp) NOTHING AT ALL?
You're subsidising all those freeloaders! They're the ones abusing your generosity, not the council.
And cyclists. Don’t pay road tax.You're subsidising all those freeloaders! They're the ones abusing your generosity, not the council.
(I feel your pain, and it just goes with everything else that is going up it seems, apart from my savings and salary. My bike is by far the ‘cheaper’ mode of transport)
thepritch said:
CraigyMc said:
HGVs do a staggering amount of road damage compared to cars, like 10,000 times to >100,000 times more depending on the car and truck. Worth reading up on.
Have you any links to start understanding this? I’ve not read into this, just cursory statements keep appearing from supposed reliable researchers suggest an HGV doesn’t do anywhere near the damage we think they do. (I work in auto and hear it said from colleagues). I can’t quite believe that an HGV doesn’t do much damage, but would like to see some decent research to show facts. Thanks.
Edited: if you prefer something with more technical info but the same conclusion, https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/31...
Edited by CraigyMc on Friday 10th May 09:43
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