Lights - form over function?
Discussion
This is really a mini rant, just followed a new shape Vauxhall Mokka and found the rear indicators virtually impossible to see as they're tiny little LEDs located bang up against the LED brake lights. I noticed similar the other day behind a new shape Ford Puma; small rear indicators tucked up against LED brake lights. Why?!
Surely there must be some minimum distance in the regulations between brake lights and indicators, for conspicuity purposes? I'm sure there's a rule somewhere about the minimum distance between brake lights and rear fog lights, but by judging what Ford and Vauxhall are churning out, clearly nothing for indicators...
Some Tesla models are guilty of the same offence, as was the old Passat. Surely with lighting tech what it is, we should be moving forwards with more visible lighting, not stepping backwards.
Surely there must be some minimum distance in the regulations between brake lights and indicators, for conspicuity purposes? I'm sure there's a rule somewhere about the minimum distance between brake lights and rear fog lights, but by judging what Ford and Vauxhall are churning out, clearly nothing for indicators...
Some Tesla models are guilty of the same offence, as was the old Passat. Surely with lighting tech what it is, we should be moving forwards with more visible lighting, not stepping backwards.
I've noticed this too.
What I've also noticed is the that LED tech has allowed such freedom for designers, and there are some really interesting lights around. I was behind a DS DS7 the other day, the tail lights were a work of art.
I also saw a new BMW X1 - BMW have avoided strobing indicators, but what they have done is indicators that fade in and out. Putting aside the shape of the indicator, the lighting effect is akin to something British Leyland would have come up with of a pathetic lamp flashing weakly on and off.
What I've also noticed is the that LED tech has allowed such freedom for designers, and there are some really interesting lights around. I was behind a DS DS7 the other day, the tail lights were a work of art.
I also saw a new BMW X1 - BMW have avoided strobing indicators, but what they have done is indicators that fade in and out. Putting aside the shape of the indicator, the lighting effect is akin to something British Leyland would have come up with of a pathetic lamp flashing weakly on and off.
Triumph Man said:
I also saw a new BMW X1 - BMW have avoided strobing indicators, but what they have done is indicators that fade in and out. Putting aside the shape of the indicator, the lighting effect is akin to something British Leyland would have come up with of a pathetic lamp flashing weakly on and off.
Have seen this myself, I want to say on a Mazda CX-something SUV - feels like a retrograde step! A lot of the allure (imo) of the change to LED meant an instant on/off of the indicator light for greater visual contrast and perceived quality as opposed to the slow response of halogen, so now some manufacturers are trying to... replicate those slower response times of halogen? Bizarre.
Triumph Man said:
BrassMan said:
Probably. A lot of modern cars turn off one headlight when the indicator is in use, so manufacturers clearly know about the problem.
You can kind of see why the Americans have, for years, combined the brake lamp and indicator. Front indicators you can't see if the headlights are on or in bright sunlight, ditto the rears especially if very bright brake lights are illuminated.
Don't get me started on scrolling indicators, utterly useless especially on some trucks which have now fallen prey to the fad, the only plus point of scrollers is that some types are more inclined to use them than before.
Don't get me started on scrolling indicators, utterly useless especially on some trucks which have now fallen prey to the fad, the only plus point of scrollers is that some types are more inclined to use them than before.
Smint said:
Front indicators you can't see if the headlights are on or in bright sunlight, ditto the rears especially if very bright brake lights are illuminated.
Don't get me started on scrolling indicators, utterly useless especially on some trucks which have now fallen prey to the fad, the only plus point of scrollers is that some types are more inclined to use them than before.
I have no issues with scrolling indicators, they seem especially noticeable in their function.Don't get me started on scrolling indicators, utterly useless especially on some trucks which have now fallen prey to the fad, the only plus point of scrollers is that some types are more inclined to use them than before.
I am sure my rear indicators (F30) are suitably clear, but I try to make a habit of indicating before braking, so that the indicators are not masked.
I really don’t mind scrolling indicators if they’re bright and clear - big exceptions being several RR models who have scrolling “U” shaped rears that are pathetically dim.
But agree - the Puma and Tesla 3 are very bad example of tiny indicators hiding in the glare of the brake lights.
And Qashqai Mk2 front indicators must be the worst offenders. A tiny old style bulb hidden in the “V” of a very bright, non-dimmed DRL.
But agree - the Puma and Tesla 3 are very bad example of tiny indicators hiding in the glare of the brake lights.
And Qashqai Mk2 front indicators must be the worst offenders. A tiny old style bulb hidden in the “V” of a very bright, non-dimmed DRL.
Smint said:
Front indicators you can't see if the headlights are on or in bright sunlight, ditto the rears especially if very bright brake lights are illuminated.
Don't get me started on scrolling indicators, utterly useless especially on some trucks which have now fallen prey to the fad, the only plus point of scrollers is that some types are more inclined to use them than before.
Yes - the front ones have been bugging me for years. Amazed they are allowed to build cars like that.Don't get me started on scrolling indicators, utterly useless especially on some trucks which have now fallen prey to the fad, the only plus point of scrollers is that some types are more inclined to use them than before.
BikeSausage said:
I really don’t mind scrolling indicators if they’re bright and clear - big exceptions being several RR models who have scrolling “U” shaped rears that are pathetically dim.
But agree - the Puma and Tesla 3 are very bad example of tiny indicators hiding in the glare of the brake lights.
And Qashqai Mk2 front indicators must be the worst offenders. A tiny old style bulb hidden in the “V” of a very bright, non-dimmed DRL.
I at first thought there was something wrong with the RR indicators but then seen it was normal. But agree - the Puma and Tesla 3 are very bad example of tiny indicators hiding in the glare of the brake lights.
And Qashqai Mk2 front indicators must be the worst offenders. A tiny old style bulb hidden in the “V” of a very bright, non-dimmed DRL.
Considering led is bright they seem to have found the worts kind
Separating the indicator from the rest of the light is regressing from old hat to ingenious. At a time merging the two counted as a facelift for the original Focus. I can't think of a modern car with the indicator separate to the tail light, but it would guarantee a separation of the two.
Uncanny! I could have posted what the OP wrote, it reflects my thoughts exactly! Model 3 and Mokka were the two cars I'd followed lately, thought the indicators were tiny and then went off thinking about how it's clearly legal but must be on the absolute limit of bring deemed unsuitable.
Pre-facelift Discovery 5s have tiny brake lights, as does the Ford Puma (crap SUV one, not the old one).
The Tesla Model 3 is a funny one… 2019-2021 model year cars have tiny brake lights and indicators but, presumably having seen the error of their ways, 2022 cars onwards had larger indicators and much larger brake lights (although the lamp units themselves looked the same). The new facelift cars - 2024 onwards - now have completely redesigned rear lamps and have absolutely enormous indicators.
The Tesla Model 3 is a funny one… 2019-2021 model year cars have tiny brake lights and indicators but, presumably having seen the error of their ways, 2022 cars onwards had larger indicators and much larger brake lights (although the lamp units themselves looked the same). The new facelift cars - 2024 onwards - now have completely redesigned rear lamps and have absolutely enormous indicators.
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