RE: UK-built Toyota Hilux FCEV begins testing
RE: UK-built Toyota Hilux FCEV begins testing
Friday 7th June 2024

UK-built Toyota Hilux FCEV begins testing

Ten hydrogen-powered Hiluxes are helping Toyota keep the fuel cell dream alive


Credit where it’s due to Toyota, it doesn’t tend to follow the crowd when it comes to trends. When nobody was too interested in rally-inspired road cars any longer, it made the GR Yaris - and flipped the hot hatch market on its head. With sports cars also not on many agendas, it made the GR86 and reminded everyone why the genre is so important. And now, with the commercial vehicle sector undergoing its own battery-powered electrification, Toyota has again floated a different option by building 10 hydrogen-powered Hiluxes.

That’s right, no one-off, toe-in-the-water prototype test. Toyota Motor Manufacturing UK in Derby, following the debut of a car last September, has built 10 fully functional Hilux Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles. Livery aside, there’s nothing to mark the Hilux out as any different to a diesel-powered version: its dimensions (5,235mm long by 1,855mm wide and 1,810mm tall) are identical, plus both payload and towing weight are increased because hydrogen is so light. The gas is stored in three 2.6kg fuel tanks mounted in the ladder frame chassis, with the battery above them in the rear deck; the 330-cell fuel cell that creates the electricity is above the front axle. Toyota says cabin space isn’t impacted, though presumably the load bay suffers a tad (there’s not a pic available). 

Power is rated at 182hp and torque at 221lb ft, which can’t quite compete with the 2.8-litre diesel’s 204hp and 369lb ft, though ought to be enough for the required duties of the rear-wheel drive truck. And just water vapour leaves the back, of course. As for zero emissions alternatives, Toyota reckons that 600km (373 miles) is possible on a tank, which is more than a comparable battery-powered truck. And hydrogen takes less time to replenish (if you can find a station).

Toyota assembles its fuel cell modules in Belgium, and the Hydrogen Factory Europe is working on a third generation that ought to be on sale by 2027, further increasing the range and power of cars like the Mirai. The manufacturer reckons that technology and increased volumes can help reduce costs ‘by more than a third’, which of course has to be factored in when considering the adoption of lower-emissions drivetrains. Making a Mirai work with your life would be tricky enough already, before thinking about the £65k asking price. 

A hydrogen Hilux has a little way to go then, but this new fleet is an encouraging development given that the first truck was shown as recently as September. Half of them will undergo ‘rigorous field testing to assess safety, performance, functionality, and durability, generating test drive data in real-world situations’, while the other five are doing media demos that will also include going to the Olympics. Toyota says that its experience will be combined with its 30-plus years of hydrogen cars to help the next generation of FCEVs. That’s over here, too, with Europe set to be ‘one of the largest’ hydrogen markets come 2030. 

There aren’t any numbers attached to that claim, because right now it feels like hydrogen will remain a bit-part player in the push to carbon neutrality. But never has the automotive industry felt like it’s changing at such a pace, so who really knows? Toyota is keeping its options open, for cars and commercial vehicles, and that looks like a sensible strategy versus all eggs in one basket. It’s hoping for the Hiluxes to ‘further develop hydrogen technology and stimulate a wider roll-out of hydrogen eco-systems and infrastructure across Europe’. Given everything Toyota’s iconic truck has achieved since the 1960s, from conquering the North Pole to winning Dakar, that’ll be a breeze.


Author
Discussion

Twinair

Original Poster:

1,028 posts

171 months

Friday 7th June 2024
quotequote all
I have been studying Toyota and their business methods since I was about 16.

There are deep reasons why they don’t:

‘Just follow’…

This might not work - but the reason they do it is much deeper & embedded into their operating model…

Let’s see where it goes…

dvs_dave

9,040 posts

254 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
…..absolutely nowhere.

They’re not planning on, only hoping to stimulate, the buildout of a Green Hydrogen infrastructure to go with it. So it’s just an expensive and inefficient ICE fueled (grey hydrogen) boondoggle.

If hydrogen was viable, it would have happened decades ago. If it only wasn’t because of that pesky thing called physics.

Fast and Spurious

1,802 posts

117 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
It is viable, it's happening, didn't you read about Europe?

yme402

655 posts

131 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
EVs are one of the biggest lies of our time. They are wasteful, short-lived, and just because the power is green at the point of delivery, doesn’t mean it is green at the point of generation. To that end, I don’t believe EVs are a long term mass solution. A combination of synthetic fuels, Hydrogen, and maybe a small number of EVs for city cars is my prediction for the future.

autumnsum

435 posts

60 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
yme402 said:
EVs are one of the biggest lies of our time. They are wasteful, short-lived, and just because the power is green at the point of delivery, doesn’t mean it is green at the point of generation. To that end, I don’t believe EVs are a long term mass solution. A combination of synthetic fuels, Hydrogen, and maybe a small number of EVs for city cars is my prediction for the future.
lol you have no understanding of physics, do you? Did you pass GCSE science? Do you actually understand what hydrogen is?

GT9

9,015 posts

201 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
yme402 said:
EVs are one of the biggest lies of our time. They are wasteful, short-lived, and just because the power is green at the point of delivery, doesn’t mean it is green at the point of generation. To that end, I don’t believe EVs are a long term mass solution. A combination of synthetic fuels, Hydrogen, and maybe a small number of EVs for city cars is my prediction for the future.
Meh.
The vehicle featured in this article is a hybrid EV, its electrically-powered with a battery and a fuel cell.
The carbon intensity of a UK-charged EV is currently under 40 g/km for the usage phase, trending to zero over a few decades.
These things are so easy to check, I have no idea what anyone hopes to achieve by making such bold claims as 'the biggest lie of our time'.
Unless it's about being a messiah of some sort.
All present day UK hydrogen is fossil-fuel sourced with a very high carbon intensity, and will remain as such for the next decade at least.
It also remains to be seen if blue hydrogen can actual reduce the carbon intensity, given the real and obvious risk of fugitive methane and hydrogen, both potent greenhouse gases.
Green hydrogen is way too expensive for mass personal consumption, and there is nothing on the horizon that changes the fundamentally high energy demand that makes it so.
Synthetic fuel just turns things up to 11, given the huge multiples of increased electricity (and the infrastructure to generate and convert it) required.
The only way you get to the point where you come to the conclusion you have is by using a broken calculator.

AmyRichardson

1,976 posts

71 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all


That's how all the gubbins fit, all 184hp of them, it's not an extended cab (well, it is on the ICE variant) - it's another bonnet. Having seen pictures of the rolling chassis, that render isn't quite right, the centre tank, using the transmission tunnel, is wider/longer than the wing tanks.

The Hilux seems a good proposition because there is quite a bit volume between the chassis rails, the sort of dead space that simply doesn't exist in regular, unibody designs.

This is something that doesn't get into a regular heat of the hydrogen/BE arguments; where EV drivetrains have mass issues, H2 drivetrains have volume and fixed-shape issues. Hence the Mirai being a bit of a "3-Series in 5-Series footprint" reverse tardis.

NDNDNDND

2,546 posts

212 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
GT9 said:
Meh.
The vehicle featured in this article is a hybrid EV, its electrically-powered with a battery and a fuel cell.
The carbon intensity of a UK-charged EV is currently under 40 g/km for the usage phase, trending to zero over a few decades.
These things are so easy to check, I have no idea what anyone hopes to achieve by making such bold claims as 'the biggest lie of our time'.
Unless it's about being a messiah of some sort.
All present day UK hydrogen is fossil-fuel sourced with a very high carbon intensity, and will remain as such for the next decade at least.
It also remains to be seen if blue hydrogen can actual reduce the carbon intensity, given the real and obvious risk of fugitive methane and hydrogen, both potent greenhouse gases.
Green hydrogen is way too expensive for mass personal consumption, and there is nothing on the horizon that changes the fundamentally high energy demand that makes it so.
Synthetic fuel just turns things up to 11, given the huge multiples of increased electricity (and the infrastructure to generate and convert it) required.
The only way you get to the point where you come to the conclusion you have is by using a broken calculator.
Yes, but technologies develop and low-energy methods of making synthetic fuels seem to be coming down the tracks:


GT9

9,015 posts

201 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
AmyRichardson said:
This is something that doesn't get into a regular heat of the hydrogen/BE arguments; where EV drivetrains have mass issues, H2 drivetrains have volume and fixed-shape issues.
Quite, not just volume, but fuel cell cars also have mass issues of their own, those tanks might only hold 2.6 kg of hydrogen each but the tanks themselves are pretty heavy, due to the wall thickness required to withstand 10,000 psi.
Well over 100 kg for 3 of them.
The entire mass of the tanks are sourced from fossil-fuels, and are not typically recyclable, being high grade carbon fibre composite.
The hydrogen is also sourced from methane.
Fuel cell cars are for when you absolutely have no alternative choice.
The are rarely, if ever, first choice.
How can they be when there is nothing sustainable and renewable about them?
All attempts to date to make them renewable have failed miserably.
Is it any wonder that there are no large organisations anywhere in the world forecasting more than a tiny % of hydrogen-powered cars.
BP reckon about 2% for cars and 20% for trucks, regardless of the rate of decarbonisation.
There are several other sources saying between 0-4% market share for H2 cars.
The point being, hydrogen will never be the main contributor to the decarbonisation of ground transportation.





GT9

9,015 posts

201 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
NDNDNDND said:
Yes, but technologies develop and low-energy methods of making synthetic fuels seem to be coming down the tracks
You mentioned this previously.
I know you think we should keep an open mind, a bit of pragmatism would go amiss though.
Bearing in mind we got through about 45-50 billion litres of petrol and diesel each year, how do you square up something like this against such an impossibly large number?
I'm asking what sort of timeframe you feel we could reasonably expect to see a product on a forecourt being dispensed in hundreds of millions of litres each month.
And even that might not scratch the surface...

plfrench

4,892 posts

297 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
How’s Element 2’s mega roll out of hydrogen fuelling stations in the UK going? I couldn’t find much information online to back up their ambitious plans… there currently seem to only be 6 stations which is a bit limited to say the least.


Burrow01

1,985 posts

221 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
I can see these being useful for large open cast type mines in remote locations where they have multiple trucks , and can have a holding tank for Hydrogen on site.

dvs_dave

9,040 posts

254 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
Burrow01 said:
I can see these being useful for large open cast type mines in remote locations where they have multiple trucks , and can have a holding tank for Hydrogen on site.
Where would the hydrogen for the holding tank come from?

nismo48

7,026 posts

236 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
GT9 said:
AmyRichardson said:
This is something that doesn't get into a regular heat of the hydrogen/BE arguments; where EV drivetrains have mass issues, H2 drivetrains have volume and fixed-shape issues.
Quite, not just volume, but fuel cell cars also have mass issues of their own, those tanks might only hold 2.6 kg of hydrogen each but the tanks themselves are pretty heavy, due to the wall thickness required to withstand 10,000 psi.
Well over 100 kg for 3 of them.
The entire mass of the tanks are sourced from fossil-fuels, and are not typically recyclable, being high grade carbon fibre composite.
The hydrogen is also sourced from methane.
Fuel cell cars are for when you absolutely have no alternative choice.
The are rarely, if ever, first choice.
How can they be when there is nothing sustainable and renewable about them?
All attempts to date to make them renewable have failed miserably.
Is it any wonder that there are no large organisations anywhere in the world forecasting more than a tiny % of hydrogen-powered cars.
BP reckon about 2% for cars and 20% for trucks, regardless of the rate of decarbonisation.
There are several other sources saying between 0-4% market share for H2 cars.
The point being, hydrogen will never be the main contributor to the decarbonisation of ground transportation.
Thanks for that, interesting stuff indeed.

Gibbler290

718 posts

124 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
Amazing that some people think that some of the biggest engineering organisations in the world (Toyota, Caterpillar etc) are wasting their time with Hydrogen, as if some random “mad about EVs” person knows something they don’t (keeps pointing to the word ‘physics’ on a whiteboard). Even if the technology doesn’t have universal application it doesn’t mean isn’t worthwhile to develop it.

autumnsum

435 posts

60 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
Gibbler290 said:
Amazing that some people think that some of the biggest engineering organisations in the world (Toyota, Caterpillar etc) are wasting their time with Hydrogen, as if some random “mad about EVs” person knows something they don’t (keeps pointing to the word ‘physics’ on a whiteboard). Even if the technology doesn’t have universal application it doesn’t mean isn’t worthwhile to develop it.
They are doing it for the grant money & subsides. They know it's just ultimately a waste of time.

dvs_dave

9,040 posts

254 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
Gibbler290 said:
Amazing that some people think that some of the biggest engineering organisations in the world (Toyota, Caterpillar etc) are wasting their time with Hydrogen, as if some random “mad about EVs” person knows something they don’t (keeps pointing to the word ‘physics’ on a whiteboard). Even if the technology doesn’t have universal application it doesn’t mean isn’t worthwhile to develop it.
More amazing that some people think that physics is a non issue whilst also not realizing that they’re all research/grant money publicity sink holes for simpletons to get excited about.

Nomme de Plum

7,050 posts

45 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
autumnsum said:
Gibbler290 said:
Amazing that some people think that some of the biggest engineering organisations in the world (Toyota, Caterpillar etc) are wasting their time with Hydrogen, as if some random “mad about EVs” person knows something they don’t (keeps pointing to the word ‘physics’ on a whiteboard). Even if the technology doesn’t have universal application it doesn’t mean isn’t worthwhile to develop it.
They are doing it for the grant money & subsides. They know it's just ultimately a waste of time.
One also has to take into account that Caterpillar are rather different to Toyota. The former build large engines for all sorts of industrial applications. so it is clearly in their long term interest to find alternative fuels for these engines that does not use diesel. This is completely different to personal transport like cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_Inc.



anonymous-user

83 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
yme402 said:
EVs are one of the biggest lies of our time. They are wasteful, short-lived, and just because the power is green at the point of delivery, doesn’t mean it is green at the point of generation. To that end, I don’t believe EVs are a long term mass solution. A combination of synthetic fuels, Hydrogen, and maybe a small number of EVs for city cars is my prediction for the future.
Are you an expert, qualifications ?

loudlashadjuster

6,420 posts

213 months

Saturday 8th June 2024
quotequote all
Oh great, another thread for Big Oil shills hydrogen "experts" to opine in.