At what point do you give up on a car?
Discussion
I am sure this is a frequent scenario amongst car enthusiasts and it drags me down every time.
UPDATE: This question is about the rare cars that you don't come across often, not a regular car which you can buy another one of within a short time.
At what point do you hang up the boots on a car you love (aesthetically or otherwise) because it keeps giving you problems? The problems could be anything from electrics to mechanical and may not be serious but do affect the pleasure of the car. Things like sunroofs or convertible tops not opening/closing properly, rattles and squeaks that never go away, or a poor ride quality.
Imagine you have spent some money and effort already on fixes, but they come back in slightly different ways and are only "another fix" away from being perfect. At what point do you say I'm done and let someone else benefit from all your efforts, money and time so far?
The next owner could just be a simple fix away from making it all work and you'll have wasted all your resources on it and sold it for less than its worth because of any unresolved issues.
Despite the car's problems you love the way it looks, there's nothing else you like much (or can afford) and it would be your dream car IF everything just worked properly. I find it hard to draw a line on such cars. Is there any rational way to work it out other than when a repair will cost more than the car's value?
UPDATE: This question is about the rare cars that you don't come across often, not a regular car which you can buy another one of within a short time.
At what point do you hang up the boots on a car you love (aesthetically or otherwise) because it keeps giving you problems? The problems could be anything from electrics to mechanical and may not be serious but do affect the pleasure of the car. Things like sunroofs or convertible tops not opening/closing properly, rattles and squeaks that never go away, or a poor ride quality.
Imagine you have spent some money and effort already on fixes, but they come back in slightly different ways and are only "another fix" away from being perfect. At what point do you say I'm done and let someone else benefit from all your efforts, money and time so far?
The next owner could just be a simple fix away from making it all work and you'll have wasted all your resources on it and sold it for less than its worth because of any unresolved issues.
Despite the car's problems you love the way it looks, there's nothing else you like much (or can afford) and it would be your dream car IF everything just worked properly. I find it hard to draw a line on such cars. Is there any rational way to work it out other than when a repair will cost more than the car's value?
Edited by Gericho on Thursday 1st August 12:32
It’s a head vs heart battle. I would look whether they are common faults you’re fixing and therefore likely to affect every vehicle of the type or have you got a less than ideal example. If it makes you happy, you can afford the repairs and you’re steadily making a good car then I’d stick with it. I doubt many TVRs would be on the road if it wasn’t for diligent owners finishing off Blackpool’s initial attempt.
Mercdriver said:
When you no longer trust it to transport you somewhere and back to the house.
Binned my CL500, a wonderful car, spent a fortune on it to allegedly make it reliable, let me down once too often, it had to go.
Hearing this is why I hate changing my car - I always assume there’s something wrong with a used vehicle otherwise the owner would have kept it. I appreciate this excludes people who just like to update their car regularly but it’s my self-talk. Binned my CL500, a wonderful car, spent a fortune on it to allegedly make it reliable, let me down once too often, it had to go.
Gericho said:
At what point do you hang up the boots on a car you love (aesthetically or otherwise) because it keeps giving you problems? The problems could be anything from electrics to mechanical and may not be serious but do affect the pleasure of the car. Things like sunroofs or convertible tops not opening/closing properly, rattles and squeaks that never go away, or a poor ride quality.
Imagine you have spent some money and effort already on fixes, but they come back in slightly different ways and are only "another fix" away from being perfect. At what point do you say I'm done and let someone else benefit from all your efforts, money and time so far?
The purpose of car maintenance is to preserve a car in working order.Imagine you have spent some money and effort already on fixes, but they come back in slightly different ways and are only "another fix" away from being perfect. At what point do you say I'm done and let someone else benefit from all your efforts, money and time so far?
If a fault is "fixed" and promptly returns in original or variant form, then the attempted maintenance has been a failure. The maintenance is the problem, not the car (neither the car model as a whole nor your original example).
There's almost no problem that can't be permanently fixed by the right person, if the owner's willing to pay the necessary costs.
For example, the first garage which maintained my RX-7 would 'kind of' fix things, and the car would 'kind of' work, but it wasn't quite satisfactory. I migrated to taking it elsewhere, the new guy diagnosed a sequential turbo failure, looked at the control unit and said 'this has been patched up before, I recommend a new one'. £800 later and he fitted a brand new turbo control unit. Yes a lot of money, but for the next four years or so I owned the car, every single time I put my foot down, the first turbo boosted the car forwards, then at 4,500rpm the second turbo opened up in another surge of power, consistently every time as Mazda intended.
So I would first give up on whoever I'm paying to repair the car, and try elsewhere. If after a search I'm unable to find someone competent to maintain a car of this type within a distance I'm prepared to travel, then and only then would I give up on the car as unmaintainable.
The problem I had with the CL was that the MOT station only registered and advisory on the suspension hydraulic lines, similar to the ar$e saving they do with brake lines, rusty but covered with oil. Problem was the lines were not just rusty they were very badly corroded. If it had been pointed out I could have had a local motor engineers, not mechanics , replace the badly rusted parts at a reasonable cost. Eventually the line gave way and all the suspension fluid drained onto the ground. The pump does not self prime and running the engine with pump dry wrecks the pump, replacement is 700 plus fitting.
The car had been fitted with a new hydraulic pump to give me confidence, after the failure did not have confidence in the car and sucked hard and sold the car, still miss it wonderful car with all the toys and comfort, ahead of its time for 2001
The car had been fitted with a new hydraulic pump to give me confidence, after the failure did not have confidence in the car and sucked hard and sold the car, still miss it wonderful car with all the toys and comfort, ahead of its time for 2001
If it’s something I cannot really fix or the fix won’t work - I recently sold my Alfa 159 estate simply because I could see the writing was on the wall with regard to rust and it was starting to look tatty. Sure, it can be welded (which is one thing I cannot do), but then you’re onto filling and painting. It’s not worth it.
Gericho said:
At what point do you hang up the boots on a car you love (aesthetically or otherwise) because it keeps giving you problems? The problems could be anything from electrics to mechanical and may not be serious but do affect the pleasure of the car. Things like sunroofs or convertible tops not opening/closing properly, rattles and squeaks that never go away, or a poor ride quality.
My ways are to have more than one car, to have the will to self fix or even just diagnose, in the mean time to not sweat the smaller/unimportant stuff that might not be working great, have older/cheaper cars because issues are known before you buy (sometimes I will not consider a car because of this research) or you have helpful diy videos or worse case giving up isn't as costly.I have a huge reluctance (probably too much) to use others to fix my cars and so far I've been very lucky to not have to use them much at all. My recent switch to BMW's from Toyota could change this but I am a bit more capable on the DIY front now and scan/coding tools are cheap and decent.
I've driven old cars for years and had a couple of breakdowns in 30 years an Alternator and fuel pump and the fuel pump was only a month or so ago, so I don't have any real examples of a car giving me lots of issues in a short period of time.
But I like the idea of fixing stuff myself if you don't then it's a whole different world, one where who does the work is very important, for quality and honesty. Being a half DIY'er customer is I suspect a mechanics nightmare? (you expect it for cheap and they might have to clear up your non professional work - or at least they say as such) but being a clueless owner/customer can see you taken advantage of?
Simon_GH said:
Mercdriver said:
When you no longer trust it to transport you somewhere and back to the house.
Binned my CL500, a wonderful car, spent a fortune on it to allegedly make it reliable, let me down once too often, it had to go.
Hearing this is why I hate changing my car - I always assume there’s something wrong with a used vehicle otherwise the owner would have kept it. I appreciate this excludes people who just like to update their car regularly but it’s my self-talk. Binned my CL500, a wonderful car, spent a fortune on it to allegedly make it reliable, let me down once too often, it had to go.
I'd have to spend thousands more to get anything significantly newer/better and I could be buying someone else's problem anyway, so it's staying for now!
I've only got to that stage once. I absolutely loved the car as something to drive, but it just kept on going rogue, and after a continuous stream of Japanese reliability, as much as I wanted to to get there with it, my patience got stretched paper thin and I gave up on the idea that it would ever be totally sorted.
1993 Corrado VR6. I didn't have another German car for 20 years, such was the constant headaches it provided. Absolute 3 year clusterf
k of constant issues, some of them expensive and difficult to resolve.
1993 Corrado VR6. I didn't have another German car for 20 years, such was the constant headaches it provided. Absolute 3 year clusterf
k of constant issues, some of them expensive and difficult to resolve.Million dollar question.
For me there are a lot of factors;
Main one really is the cost of replacement - if I were to need to replace the car, how much would it cost vs repairing.
General condition comes into play also - for example, if there are corrosion issues that may question an MOT / safety - is it worth spending the money on say a £400 brake job or cambelt?
Cost of parts - are they readily available / affordable / used alternatives?
As an example, my current daily is a 2009 BMW 520d, its covered 260,000 miles. I paid 3k for it 4 years ago when it had just ticked over 200k.
I can only describe the cars condition as astonishing, the underside has minimal corrosion - original steel brake lines look like new.etc
Everything still feels reasonably tight and has no inkling of letting go just yet - that is enough for me to justify sorting out any issues that arise.
During my ownership the car has had the following; alternator, propshaft center bearing, rear wheel hub/bearing, I've done the timing chain for good measure. With the rest being general wear and tear - brakes, tyres.etc and servicing every 7k.
The beauty of it is, as there were oodles of 520d's made, I was able to get a low mileage rear hub & propshaft at very low cost.
I think if I were to replace the car like for like, I'd probably be looking at around £4k or if I made the jump to a newer 5 series, I'd need to drop a lot more.
I think essentially - spending money depends on the rest of the car, if its a nail and probably seen its last MOT then dont spend.
If its in good presentable condition, solid underneath and parts / labour affordable, then it justifies it.
For me there are a lot of factors;
Main one really is the cost of replacement - if I were to need to replace the car, how much would it cost vs repairing.
General condition comes into play also - for example, if there are corrosion issues that may question an MOT / safety - is it worth spending the money on say a £400 brake job or cambelt?
Cost of parts - are they readily available / affordable / used alternatives?
As an example, my current daily is a 2009 BMW 520d, its covered 260,000 miles. I paid 3k for it 4 years ago when it had just ticked over 200k.
I can only describe the cars condition as astonishing, the underside has minimal corrosion - original steel brake lines look like new.etc
Everything still feels reasonably tight and has no inkling of letting go just yet - that is enough for me to justify sorting out any issues that arise.
During my ownership the car has had the following; alternator, propshaft center bearing, rear wheel hub/bearing, I've done the timing chain for good measure. With the rest being general wear and tear - brakes, tyres.etc and servicing every 7k.
The beauty of it is, as there were oodles of 520d's made, I was able to get a low mileage rear hub & propshaft at very low cost.
I think if I were to replace the car like for like, I'd probably be looking at around £4k or if I made the jump to a newer 5 series, I'd need to drop a lot more.
I think essentially - spending money depends on the rest of the car, if its a nail and probably seen its last MOT then dont spend.
If its in good presentable condition, solid underneath and parts / labour affordable, then it justifies it.
Porsche cayman 987.1 S, loved the thing, still to this day one of the best cars i owned, despite it having the odd fix required nothing was too much. In the end it started burning oil at around a litre per tank of fuel, Bore scored, looking at £12k for a rebuild from Hartec, value of car was around £17k, Once the repair is more than 50% of the value its going.
Thats my general rule of thumb. Or if it becomes so unreliable i just don't trust it any more.
Thats my general rule of thumb. Or if it becomes so unreliable i just don't trust it any more.
I put a new engine in my £1900 Saab 9-5 Aero, new clutch and gearbox, replaced all the suspension/bushes, welded up the rear inner arches and painted it, had the aircon redone with a new rad, compressor and expansion valve, rebuilt all 4 calipers and painted them. The list goes on.
It is crazy really but I enjoy it. Most likely cost me around 6k in total including purchase but I have a totally unique barge for daily duties. Looking around 6k doesn't really buy you anything anyway.
I still need to refurb the alloys, wing mirrors and spray the front and rear bumpers but it is nearly there. I would like to get a complete interior and replace some broken items and re do the drivers seat with a passenger seat cover to make it mint inside. That is only about £400 in parts and paint though.
It does get a bit overwhelming but I enjoy it and once the jobs have been ticked off you start to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
It has only let me down once in 10 years where a heater hose split and needed AA to put a bit of fibre fix on it to get it home. It also put a hole in number 4 piston but I think that was mainly my fault for putting a 280BHP stage 1 map on it rather than the car itself.
It is crazy really but I enjoy it. Most likely cost me around 6k in total including purchase but I have a totally unique barge for daily duties. Looking around 6k doesn't really buy you anything anyway.
I still need to refurb the alloys, wing mirrors and spray the front and rear bumpers but it is nearly there. I would like to get a complete interior and replace some broken items and re do the drivers seat with a passenger seat cover to make it mint inside. That is only about £400 in parts and paint though.
It does get a bit overwhelming but I enjoy it and once the jobs have been ticked off you start to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
It has only let me down once in 10 years where a heater hose split and needed AA to put a bit of fibre fix on it to get it home. It also put a hole in number 4 piston but I think that was mainly my fault for putting a 280BHP stage 1 map on it rather than the car itself.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Wednesday 31st July 12:51
It varies. Can be due to usage required, history with it, value, the actual problems etc.
There are 2 cars I've had I gave up on. First was an Audi Allroad. Was just a rubbish ownership experience from the start and should never have bought it. Dealer was a prick and bodged the things I asked to rectify pre sale so spent the first month and a half running round getting him to fix stuff that should have been sorted. Then about 3.5 months in it snapped a belt. Dealer decided he only offered a 3 month warranty at that point despite telling me 6 when I bought it. Since I basically thought the car was scrap at that point I was looking in to parting it out, got myself a new car and then realised that contrary to what the AA guy and a mechanic told me it was the diesel pump belt that snapped not the cam belt, so a £200 fix and it was fine but had committed to moving it on, at least it being fixed netted me another few £k for it.
The other was a Cerbera. It was one of my dream cars that I'd been waiting years to get. I found an absolute unicorn spec wise, it was expensive, came from about the most well regarded dealer / servicer of these things in the UK and came with warranty so did my best to get the best experience possible. And again the thing was a basket case from day one. Went back for warranty fixes 3-4 times in as many months and still wasn't sorted. I was expecting foibles with a TVR and things like the wipers being silly buggers was fine but I was having problems with starting and overheating among other things meaning it couldn't be trusted to do anything. I managed 1 pub trip in it and some 1-2 hour drives around the local fun roads. Never taking it further or to any meets or shows for fear of it not starting and me looking like a berk so rejected it back to the dealer. Who annoyingly must have actually tried properly to fix the problems I had then as the next owner had none of the issues and had a great time with the car and it is still going strong now.
I think if the problems had started 6 months down the line after I'd had some good times in it, or if I'd not paid big money for it and therefore had spare to get issues sorted at another TVR specialist quickly I'd probably still have it.
The other two I've had thoughts about jacking it in on at various points are my Nomad, which probably borks something about every 5th drive. So far not been anything terminal or expensive but still makes me nervous to do a long trip in it so just the amount of fettling it needs is a bit frustrating but when it is working it is a bloody great thing so gets a reprieve.
Then there is my P1 (Impreza) Had it for about 18 years now and is basically part of the family which has saved it a couple of times. Reliability has been hampered some what by me giving it twice the original power then beating it on track regularly so only have myself to blame. I didn't sell it mostly as I'd invested twice the cars value in mods and was never going to get that back selling it. I'm just getting it back out on the road again now so hoping it can be reliable for a bit as if it craps itself a few times in short order now the value has risen I should get more than my money back so it is in danger financially but I'd still struggle to get rid of it from a sentimental point of view but it would allow me to buy something else more modern, quicker, reliable
There are 2 cars I've had I gave up on. First was an Audi Allroad. Was just a rubbish ownership experience from the start and should never have bought it. Dealer was a prick and bodged the things I asked to rectify pre sale so spent the first month and a half running round getting him to fix stuff that should have been sorted. Then about 3.5 months in it snapped a belt. Dealer decided he only offered a 3 month warranty at that point despite telling me 6 when I bought it. Since I basically thought the car was scrap at that point I was looking in to parting it out, got myself a new car and then realised that contrary to what the AA guy and a mechanic told me it was the diesel pump belt that snapped not the cam belt, so a £200 fix and it was fine but had committed to moving it on, at least it being fixed netted me another few £k for it.
The other was a Cerbera. It was one of my dream cars that I'd been waiting years to get. I found an absolute unicorn spec wise, it was expensive, came from about the most well regarded dealer / servicer of these things in the UK and came with warranty so did my best to get the best experience possible. And again the thing was a basket case from day one. Went back for warranty fixes 3-4 times in as many months and still wasn't sorted. I was expecting foibles with a TVR and things like the wipers being silly buggers was fine but I was having problems with starting and overheating among other things meaning it couldn't be trusted to do anything. I managed 1 pub trip in it and some 1-2 hour drives around the local fun roads. Never taking it further or to any meets or shows for fear of it not starting and me looking like a berk so rejected it back to the dealer. Who annoyingly must have actually tried properly to fix the problems I had then as the next owner had none of the issues and had a great time with the car and it is still going strong now.
I think if the problems had started 6 months down the line after I'd had some good times in it, or if I'd not paid big money for it and therefore had spare to get issues sorted at another TVR specialist quickly I'd probably still have it.
The other two I've had thoughts about jacking it in on at various points are my Nomad, which probably borks something about every 5th drive. So far not been anything terminal or expensive but still makes me nervous to do a long trip in it so just the amount of fettling it needs is a bit frustrating but when it is working it is a bloody great thing so gets a reprieve.
Then there is my P1 (Impreza) Had it for about 18 years now and is basically part of the family which has saved it a couple of times. Reliability has been hampered some what by me giving it twice the original power then beating it on track regularly so only have myself to blame. I didn't sell it mostly as I'd invested twice the cars value in mods and was never going to get that back selling it. I'm just getting it back out on the road again now so hoping it can be reliable for a bit as if it craps itself a few times in short order now the value has risen I should get more than my money back so it is in danger financially but I'd still struggle to get rid of it from a sentimental point of view but it would allow me to buy something else more modern, quicker, reliable
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