Garages, have they gone to ...
Discussion
Perhaps this is unjustified perhaps not but has anyone found that since Covid the number of traditional, honest and dependable garages has mostly disappeared. Maybe the last weeks worth of events has made me post this but here goes.
Left my car Alfredo the Alfa into a local well respected garage for inner and outer driveshaft parts. Explained and wrote down everything I wanted done and left them too it, picked it up and they said " oh we could only fit the outer ones because we don't have the tooling". So they charged me over £200 and only did half the job, they have my name address and phone number and at no point when that car was in did they think we will call this to me. I left them the parts and instructions and let them get on with it.
Next garage is a lot closer to me so I left it in with them to do the inner driveshafts and again supplied the parts, they did the job and gave me the car back. They had removed the front bumper and put it back on afterwards...badly, it was sticking out about an inch between the wing and bumper and on further inspection it seems they forgot to remove the TX30 bolt and ripped the lugs so decided instead of telling me they would cut a bolt and put two nuts at either end with two washers and bodge it, they also left the under tray hanging off, bolts missing and some just hanging on for dear life.
Next garage as for power flex anti roll bar bushes front and rear, again fairly straight forward for a garage with a ramp, but hours of pain on the ground with axle stands and a dodgy back. So left it in that morning and explained that the nut on the clamp is fixed and you have to remove the top bolt. Got a call about 2pm "we're having issues". the nut is seized onto the clamp. I. explained that it's attached. So what did they do.
They cut both off and put new nuts and bolts and only did the front because they said it took them so long, again this job took two hours and 150 quid.
So all in all three supposedly respected garages and three half arsed jobs. The car passed it's MoT so I guess I should be grateful but to be honest none of the garages seemed at all bothered they didn't finish the job.
Left my car Alfredo the Alfa into a local well respected garage for inner and outer driveshaft parts. Explained and wrote down everything I wanted done and left them too it, picked it up and they said " oh we could only fit the outer ones because we don't have the tooling". So they charged me over £200 and only did half the job, they have my name address and phone number and at no point when that car was in did they think we will call this to me. I left them the parts and instructions and let them get on with it.
Next garage is a lot closer to me so I left it in with them to do the inner driveshafts and again supplied the parts, they did the job and gave me the car back. They had removed the front bumper and put it back on afterwards...badly, it was sticking out about an inch between the wing and bumper and on further inspection it seems they forgot to remove the TX30 bolt and ripped the lugs so decided instead of telling me they would cut a bolt and put two nuts at either end with two washers and bodge it, they also left the under tray hanging off, bolts missing and some just hanging on for dear life.
Next garage as for power flex anti roll bar bushes front and rear, again fairly straight forward for a garage with a ramp, but hours of pain on the ground with axle stands and a dodgy back. So left it in that morning and explained that the nut on the clamp is fixed and you have to remove the top bolt. Got a call about 2pm "we're having issues". the nut is seized onto the clamp. I. explained that it's attached. So what did they do.
They cut both off and put new nuts and bolts and only did the front because they said it took them so long, again this job took two hours and 150 quid.
So all in all three supposedly respected garages and three half arsed jobs. The car passed it's MoT so I guess I should be grateful but to be honest none of the garages seemed at all bothered they didn't finish the job.
Two things that stand out as perhaps why.
1) You supplied parts, so they couldn't make -any- profit on those, also they may have some doubt that they'd be right.
2) You supplied advice as to how you wanted things done on at least one job. Not right, but perhaps they dislike this, with a "if he's so good why doesn't he do it" or similar attitude.
Not saying anything you've done is wrong, though the above does sound like victim blaming. Is more there to suggest what and why it might not have gone the way you wanted. Understanding and manipulating people to get what you want isn't as easy as people think, but often needed for a positive outcome.
Perhaps try dropping the two above as an experiment next time.
1) You supplied parts, so they couldn't make -any- profit on those, also they may have some doubt that they'd be right.
2) You supplied advice as to how you wanted things done on at least one job. Not right, but perhaps they dislike this, with a "if he's so good why doesn't he do it" or similar attitude.
Not saying anything you've done is wrong, though the above does sound like victim blaming. Is more there to suggest what and why it might not have gone the way you wanted. Understanding and manipulating people to get what you want isn't as easy as people think, but often needed for a positive outcome.
Perhaps try dropping the two above as an experiment next time.
Sounds like a trusted Alfa Romeo specialist may be the better course of action? Most "average" garages simply don't want the hassle of involved / niche jobs these days as cost are spiralling, good techs are hard to hold on to and everybody wants everything done for about 50p therefore trying to make a profit is harder and harder for your average, small independent outfit. Though granted there are always issue / attitude / ability problems, that's a given so maybe you were just unlucky in your search. Hard one to get right. A mate runs his own place, I genuinely worry about his mental health most days as it seems to be a complete ball ache making ends meet lately - it's mostly people wanting work done for next to nothing so he's become extremely picky about what he does and for who as he says of late, it's just been a complete chore. I feel for the guy.
...gone to s
t!
Yes as far as I can tell the have!
Recently I booked the 330ci E46 into the best one I have found locally for a right rear wheel bearing, only to be told it wasnt the wheelbearing it was the diff!
Questioned it, but they where adamant, and stood under the thing with the wheels off the ground on a lift with a stethoscope. So what do you do?
Fine, they didnt want to supply a diff,. So I got a good used one of a respectable used parts dealer/breaker and 10 days later its back in again.
Phone rang again. Diff is fitted, but it made no difference, so we did an extended test drive and used a thermal gun on the wheel bearing, and the rear right is running hot!
So another ten days later, and they finally change the wheel bearing almost a month later than planned, with low and behold fixes the issue.
But I am £150 of parts and £200 labour down on them just doing what I asked them to first time. Are they interested in coming to an agreement here, like going halves on the fitting. No they are not, instead just telling my they did a good price on the fitting in the first place!
How and now the replacement diff is leaking oil, only lightly, but arrggghhh....
Local BMW indi wont touch it 'because its too old' at 25 years old.
Local german spanner monkey was friendly and reasonably priced but very slow, mixed quality, and shut up shop a few months ago.
Become good friends with a local MOT tester, who now does a a lot of our servicing, but doesn't take on larger jobs because its just him and his brother its not his business model.
t!Yes as far as I can tell the have!
Recently I booked the 330ci E46 into the best one I have found locally for a right rear wheel bearing, only to be told it wasnt the wheelbearing it was the diff!
Questioned it, but they where adamant, and stood under the thing with the wheels off the ground on a lift with a stethoscope. So what do you do?
Fine, they didnt want to supply a diff,. So I got a good used one of a respectable used parts dealer/breaker and 10 days later its back in again.
Phone rang again. Diff is fitted, but it made no difference, so we did an extended test drive and used a thermal gun on the wheel bearing, and the rear right is running hot!
So another ten days later, and they finally change the wheel bearing almost a month later than planned, with low and behold fixes the issue.
But I am £150 of parts and £200 labour down on them just doing what I asked them to first time. Are they interested in coming to an agreement here, like going halves on the fitting. No they are not, instead just telling my they did a good price on the fitting in the first place!
How and now the replacement diff is leaking oil, only lightly, but arrggghhh....
Local BMW indi wont touch it 'because its too old' at 25 years old.
Local german spanner monkey was friendly and reasonably priced but very slow, mixed quality, and shut up shop a few months ago.
Become good friends with a local MOT tester, who now does a a lot of our servicing, but doesn't take on larger jobs because its just him and his brother its not his business model.
I took a VAG group car to a specialist in York, the fault said it was a dodgy crank sensor, on my OBD11,
I asked them to check it, and swap if their OBD reader agreed,
2 hours labour
I got a mile away and fault was back,
returned to them,
"oh in that case we need to remove the gearbox and swap the flywheel"
its a notch in the flywheel..... cant really go wrong, I declined,
search on the web its the cam sensor, gives a crank sensor fault, £20 bit and half an hour on my drive, fixed,
specialist??
I asked them to check it, and swap if their OBD reader agreed,
2 hours labour
I got a mile away and fault was back,
returned to them,
"oh in that case we need to remove the gearbox and swap the flywheel"
its a notch in the flywheel..... cant really go wrong, I declined,
search on the web its the cam sensor, gives a crank sensor fault, £20 bit and half an hour on my drive, fixed,
specialist??
my local (not even specialist) garage is booked up for months, as most of the main dealers nearby are no good, those being Alfa, Porsche & Audi. London NW so you can guess which ones 
Most of the mechanics there are in their 50s and have worked there for 20 years, no fancy showroom, crumpet or coffee but they are really good and in high demand. They order their parts from the main dealers.
They also open at 6.30am, very handy for work. One day I turned up at 6.15 and they still let me drop it off.
Most of the mechanics there are in their 50s and have worked there for 20 years, no fancy showroom, crumpet or coffee but they are really good and in high demand. They order their parts from the main dealers.
They also open at 6.30am, very handy for work. One day I turned up at 6.15 and they still let me drop it off.
hungry_hog said:
Most of the mechanics there are in their 50s and have worked there for 20 years, no fancy showroom, crumpet or coffee but they are really good and in high demand. They order their parts from the main dealers.
^^^ There ya go. Right there. Almost certainly not the "cheapest" way forward but that's not what I'm looking for when I want a car fixed. I just want it properly fixed and hopefully for less than £130 an hour (plus VAT) at the main dealer. The reason I only want to run older cars that I can fix.
Suck with the wife's Mini and the Family V70 but where I live the garages are loaded up to the nines, haven't time or space to take on big jobs and an pick and choose as a result.
Where I used to live in Yorkshire was the same, great one man garage in the village but no access to up to date computers to tell the car a new part was fitted, a car in for more than a day took up the lift and he had to work on anything else outside. Got parts OK and loves to help out when stuck but stuff is just too complicated nowerdays. Guessing he's retired now, missing the chat but pleased to be out of it.
Suck with the wife's Mini and the Family V70 but where I live the garages are loaded up to the nines, haven't time or space to take on big jobs and an pick and choose as a result.
Where I used to live in Yorkshire was the same, great one man garage in the village but no access to up to date computers to tell the car a new part was fitted, a car in for more than a day took up the lift and he had to work on anything else outside. Got parts OK and loves to help out when stuck but stuff is just too complicated nowerdays. Guessing he's retired now, missing the chat but pleased to be out of it.
From a garage point of view, we don't mid list's, just don't book it in for an oil service then drop it off with a note asking to rebuild the engine ....
Parts, it depends on the customer, we have the odd customer who supply genuine parts and we are fine with them, aftermarket where someone buys the cheapest bits off ebay then its a no. supply a part and because its rubbish and it takes us 5 hours to fit instead of 1 hour then your paying 5 hours labour, its not our fault.
With the E46 wheel bearing, we would have fitted the wheel bearing, its the cheaper of the 2 options and since the customer asked us to fit it thats what we would have done, had it not worked and it was the differential the we would have just said to the customer you diagnosed it, we have just fitted what you asked.
As already pointed out some customers don't want to pay for a decent job, they are the ones to avoid. Staff, you just cannot get them, we could easilly find work for more but people just don't want to do it and of those that do 80% of them are rubbish, most that come from main dealers are the worst. Given the choice between a master tec and someone that is self taught and can pull an engine out on the drive, give me the self taught mechanic
Parts, it depends on the customer, we have the odd customer who supply genuine parts and we are fine with them, aftermarket where someone buys the cheapest bits off ebay then its a no. supply a part and because its rubbish and it takes us 5 hours to fit instead of 1 hour then your paying 5 hours labour, its not our fault.
With the E46 wheel bearing, we would have fitted the wheel bearing, its the cheaper of the 2 options and since the customer asked us to fit it thats what we would have done, had it not worked and it was the differential the we would have just said to the customer you diagnosed it, we have just fitted what you asked.
As already pointed out some customers don't want to pay for a decent job, they are the ones to avoid. Staff, you just cannot get them, we could easilly find work for more but people just don't want to do it and of those that do 80% of them are rubbish, most that come from main dealers are the worst. Given the choice between a master tec and someone that is self taught and can pull an engine out on the drive, give me the self taught mechanic
bobtail4x4 said:
I took a VAG group car to a specialist in York, the fault said it was a dodgy crank sensor, on my OBD11,
I asked them to check it, and swap if their OBD reader agreed,
2 hours labour
I got a mile away and fault was back,
returned to them,
"oh in that case we need to remove the gearbox and swap the flywheel"
its a notch in the flywheel..... cant really go wrong, I declined,
search on the web its the cam sensor, gives a crank sensor fault, £20 bit and half an hour on my drive, fixed,
specialist??
There are two VAG 'specialists' that I know of in York, and I wouldn't go near one of them. I have heard 3 separate horror stories of problems they have caused. I asked them to check it, and swap if their OBD reader agreed,
2 hours labour
I got a mile away and fault was back,
returned to them,
"oh in that case we need to remove the gearbox and swap the flywheel"
its a notch in the flywheel..... cant really go wrong, I declined,
search on the web its the cam sensor, gives a crank sensor fault, £20 bit and half an hour on my drive, fixed,
specialist??
Luckily, there are two garages that I do trust (from recent experiences)...but a longer list of others that I haven't been happy with their work.
I'm not sure I agree with the above posters comments regarding choosing a self taught mechanic over a master technician. This is completely situational/manufacturer dependent to ascertain the skill level of the master tech. Different manufacturers have different ideas of what a master rdch should be. I've known a couple of master techs who are extremely intelligent blokes who can literally turn their hand to anything and will do a very good and thorough job on whatever you put their way and have gone onto great things. Put them in a garage environment and im sure they would be absolutely fine. People who are self taught at pulling engines on their drive also have their place and again would be fine in a garage and a main dealer environment. Technicians have skill sets and some technicians are better at a certain type of job than others. It can almost come down to personal preference sometimes. Good technicians are hard to find full stop these days.
As previously mentioned, bringing your own parts is generally not recommended (although there are some exceptions). The main reasons are:
1. Why would the garage want to take the job on and fit your own parts vs. someone else who is getting them to supply parts and make a mark up?
2. Supplying your own parts relies on the customer diagnosing the fault correctly, and ordering the replacement parts.
3. If and when you get any failures, your parts will be suspect/to blame, rather than if you got the garage to diagnose, supply and fit the parts.
That's not to say that you got anything wrong with the diagnosis or parts, but for every expert customer supplying their own parts, there is another 10 plebs bringing their eurocarparts bag of "brembo" and eicher allsorts who think it's right just because they put their reg into the website.
Even then, I've purchased a correct part in the past, only for it to have been picked wrongly by the supplier, so that can be a factor too.
I've noticed garages don't seem to want to diagnose faults anymore. I've successfully repaired cars that specialists had no interest in (mainly electrical faults). It's understandable though. I had the time and nothing to lose, whereas they might spend a couple of hours on it, and still not solve the issue. I'd rather do discs and pads all day rather than deal with a customer's problem like that.
1. Why would the garage want to take the job on and fit your own parts vs. someone else who is getting them to supply parts and make a mark up?
2. Supplying your own parts relies on the customer diagnosing the fault correctly, and ordering the replacement parts.
3. If and when you get any failures, your parts will be suspect/to blame, rather than if you got the garage to diagnose, supply and fit the parts.
That's not to say that you got anything wrong with the diagnosis or parts, but for every expert customer supplying their own parts, there is another 10 plebs bringing their eurocarparts bag of "brembo" and eicher allsorts who think it's right just because they put their reg into the website.
Even then, I've purchased a correct part in the past, only for it to have been picked wrongly by the supplier, so that can be a factor too.
I've noticed garages don't seem to want to diagnose faults anymore. I've successfully repaired cars that specialists had no interest in (mainly electrical faults). It's understandable though. I had the time and nothing to lose, whereas they might spend a couple of hours on it, and still not solve the issue. I'd rather do discs and pads all day rather than deal with a customer's problem like that.
Edited by johnsmith222 on Tuesday 10th June 23:56
stevemcs said:
From a garage point of view, we don't mid list's, just don't book it in for an oil service then drop it off with a note asking to rebuild the engine ....
...plenty of exceptions to prove the rule. But i have found trying to get a garage to wok on more than one issue concurrently is a none starter!My local garage is superb and will turn their hands to anything. You will need to wait at least 3 weeks before they can start it though. They do have trouble getting tech's though as no one wants to do it. They prefer servicing and brake rebuilds, but have a couple of guys that like the bigger jobs. Best bit is they do MOT's and never feel the need to fail cars just to get work.
ARHarh said:
My local garage is superb and will turn their hands to anything. You will need to wait at least 3 weeks before they can start it though.
Yeah I have certainly noticed this, even for an MOT these days you need to give 10 working days notice.Which can then be very annoying when they cant fix it on the first visit, for whatever reason, and instead of rolling over to the second day it rolls over to 3-4 or even 8-10 days time. Which means you have to go through the logistics of collecting and dropping off the car again. With my example above, its ended up being 2x10days which is the bulk of a month all but without the car, as it was drivable but not happy and getting worse.
Being 25yo I have also fallen foul of parts not being available same day, which garages now seem to be very heavily reliant on. Almost never ordering in the parts before the car arrives. A few years ago I had an oil leak, suspected to be the filter housing gasket, a £12 bit of cut gasket between the housing body and the head. Car went in, source of leak confirmed, gasket is a next-day rather than same-day item. So it will be tomorrow!! For twelve quid, easy to return, how would you not get that in!
Rant over....
Davie said:
Sounds like a trusted Alfa Romeo specialist may be the better course of action? Most "average" garages simply don't want the hassle of involved / niche jobs these days as cost are spiralling, good techs are hard to hold on to and everybody wants everything done for about 50p therefore trying to make a profit is harder and harder for your average, small independent outfit. Though granted there are always issue / attitude / ability problems, that's a given so maybe you were just unlucky in your search. Hard one to get right. A mate runs his own place, I genuinely worry about his mental health most days as it seems to be a complete ball ache making ends meet lately - it's mostly people wanting work done for next to nothing so he's become extremely picky about what he does and for who as he says of late, it's just been a complete chore. I feel for the guy.
I think there is lots of this across many trades/services, customers baulk at price increases (principle and ability to pay) but owners being squeezed by higher running costs. As it becomes more about genuine monetary stress/survival on both sides you get the pressure of people wanting stuff done cheap and the pressure to upsell or cut corners.
For the OP it may be time to invest in a scissor lift to continue the DIY'ing but I do get the diminishing will/ability angle. From a mechanics point of view we are the worse customers as we will audit all the work to an extent, no one else ever gets under the car (the rollar bar doesn't clunk anymore that's good enough, the way it's bolted they'd neither know nor care as long as its secure). I remember my dad got an expensive exhaust for his Monaro and I had a look after and they had left a few inches of the stock exhaust post cat joint and welded the stainless exhaust from there backwards and then spray painted it silver to make it look new/matching, lazy/cost cutting but 99% of people would never have clocked it.
You have a whole range of owners and customers and it must be a nightmare at times with cars and the size of some bills, dealing wth customers that have no idea the manufacturer is largely to blame etc like the cost of a wet belt etc.
I will continue to have more than one car and diy everything possible and then beyond that go to the best specialist possible and suck up the cost as they are likely to get it right first time or at least eventually solve something and not give up.
I stopped trusting garages when I had a car that had a cylinder that would randomly start misfiring.
I’d take the day off work (as the dealership was nowhere near)
Drop my car off and hang around for literally the entire day.
The dealership had poor communications, by 16:30 they hadn’t phoned me to say the cars ready, so I’d phone them and if by magic the car is suddenly ready just as I phone. Could I have had my car back hours earlier but they just didn’t tell me?
When I go to collect the car I’d get the bill for a few hours labour.
The next day the misfire would happen again.
Rinse and repeat.
I had a chat with the dealership manager in his office to ask him just what am I paying for? I’m paying £100s and they’ve made no difference. They could have done nothing.
I wouldn’t have minded if I only paid once the fault was fixed or if the work had a warranty. But its unacceptable to pay a “diagnostics fee” or “labour” when they haven’t achieved anything.
In the end I saw this was a never ending money pit. So o got rid of the car and never would do business with that dealership or franchise again.
I’d take the day off work (as the dealership was nowhere near)
Drop my car off and hang around for literally the entire day.
The dealership had poor communications, by 16:30 they hadn’t phoned me to say the cars ready, so I’d phone them and if by magic the car is suddenly ready just as I phone. Could I have had my car back hours earlier but they just didn’t tell me?
When I go to collect the car I’d get the bill for a few hours labour.
The next day the misfire would happen again.
Rinse and repeat.
I had a chat with the dealership manager in his office to ask him just what am I paying for? I’m paying £100s and they’ve made no difference. They could have done nothing.
I wouldn’t have minded if I only paid once the fault was fixed or if the work had a warranty. But its unacceptable to pay a “diagnostics fee” or “labour” when they haven’t achieved anything.
In the end I saw this was a never ending money pit. So o got rid of the car and never would do business with that dealership or franchise again.
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