Is there any sporty sedan left?

[StRemy]

Outside of the Alfa Romeo Giulia I mean.

I had the chance of driving a Giulia Veloce Q4 (pre-facelift) and a BMW G20 330e back to back and did not expect them to feel so different.



The Alfa has an almost perfect driving position (in an Italian car!), column fixed huge paddles and integrated screen with physical controls.

The steering is almost dangerously fast, the body control fantastic and the suspension is hard but not unconfortable. Is the kind of car that seems to “read your mind”. The only improvements points I could really find (just from my POV, this is subjectiv) are the character of the 2.0t engine and the brake feel.



The BMW has a precise, linear steering that is nowhere near as fast and an unconfortable thick steering wheel with small paddles, braking feel (this may change in non hybrid models) is terrible and the suspension was impressively confortable but it allowed much more body movement than in the Alfa.

I’m not sure if the fact that BMW are “fine tuned” in terrible roads at the Provence may have any influence, but it reminded me of the driving feel of a Peugeot 508.

Are my impressions really off or is the Alfa the only “sporty” sedan left?

[GeniusOfLove]

I find that the 3 series now drives I'd expect a 5 series to, and the 5 feels more like a big fat 7 series, I suppose their dimensions have grown about that much too.

The RWD 2 series is what you probably want for feel, two door only though

[swisstoni]

I'm not sure they were ever what I'd call sporty ...

[Huzzah]

swisstoni said:

I'm not sure they were ever what I'd call sporty ...

Don't be obtuse.

[Milkyway]

swisstoni said:

I'm not sure they were ever what I'd call sporty ...

At least it's a manual.

[Milkyway]

Huzzah said:

Don't be obtuse.

That's only two door.
(Dodge).

Edited by Milkyway on Sunday 16th November 15:49

[Deep Thought]

StRemy said:

Outside of the Alfa Romeo Giulia I mean.

I had the chance of driving a Giulia Veloce Q4 (pre-facelift) and a BMW G20 330e back to back and did not expect them to feel so different.



The Alfa has an almost perfect driving position (in an Italian car!), column fixed huge paddles and integrated screen with physical controls.

The steering is almost dangerously fast, the body control fantastic and the suspension is hard but not unconfortable. Is the kind of car that seems to read your mind . The only improvements points I could really find (just from my POV, this is subjectiv) are the character of the 2.0t engine and the brake feel.



The BMW has a precise, linear steering that is nowhere near as fast and an unconfortable thick steering wheel with small paddles, braking feel (this may change in non hybrid models) is terrible and the suspension was impressively confortable but it allowed much more body movement than in the Alfa.

I m not sure if the fact that BMW are fine tuned in terrible roads at the Provence may have any influence, but it reminded me of the driving feel of a Peugeot 508.

Are my impressions really off or is the Alfa the only sporty sedan left?

I wouldnt really have thought a 330e was a sporty sedan.

But yes, there are plenty around

BMW M340i
Mercedes C43
Audi S4
Mercedes A35 saloon
Audi S3 saloon

Further up the power theres

M3
C63
RS4
RS3

[StRemy]

But those have more serious performance, right?

Back in the day, wouldn’t for instance a 323i or a 75 2.0TS have this “sport-ish” character without being close to the top of the range in terms of performance?

[SweptVolume]

Deep Thought said:

I wouldnt really have thought a 330e was a sporty sedan.

But yes, there are plenty around

BMW M340i
Mercedes C43
Audi S4
Mercedes A35 saloon
Audi S3 saloon

Further up the power theres

M3
C63
RS4
RS3

I think this is missing the point somewhat. There was a time when you didn't need to buy the hot version of a car for it to drive keenly. I think that's what the Op is getting at.

Think run-of-the-mill versions of the Peugeot 405, Alfa 155, and Ford Mondeo.

[mikey_b]

Just buy the Alfa. There, you got a sporty sedan. And a great looking one, too - plus you can now tick the box that says ‘to be a true petrolhead, you must have owned an Alfa Romeo’.

[fflump]

It’s true about a lack of affordable sporty saloons. I ran a 156 2.0 twin spark which was light with a lovely nimble chassis and fizzy engine and due to modest power and weight did not suffer from being FWD. modern saloons are pretty dull these days unless you spend a mint on a powerful version.

[Deep Thought]

StRemy said:

But those have more serious performance, right?

Back in the day, wouldn t for instance a 323i or a 75 2.0TS have this sport-ish character without being close to the top of the range in terms of performance?

StRemy said:

But those have more serious performance, right?

Back in the day, wouldn t for instance a 323i or a 75 2.0TS have this sport-ish character without being close to the top of the range in terms of performance?

Ah. Right. Gotcha.

[kambites]

I guess the ever-increasing weight of cars, combined things like EPAS and many cars going 4wd, was inevitably going to make it harder for lower-powered variants to feel interesting to drive.

ETA: I guess to an extent, C-segment hot hatches have perhaps taken over from a mid-range D-segment saloons, too? A Golf GTi these days is probably pretty similar in terms of size, weight and performance to, say, an E46 330i?

Edited by kambites on Sunday 16th November 22:06