Is the previous generation car usually the "sweet spot"?
Discussion
Just a theory based on some of the cars that I have owned more recently: mk7 Golf, 4th gen Clio (2015), mk7 Fiesta (2014) etc but they were all fantastic cars and I never really desired the newer model/generation car. It sounds like a grumpy old git thing to say but I've always been broadly of the opinion that the new model is an improvement/evolution of the one that came before but maybe people in the 80s/90s were saying the same thing then about the new model being a step back from what came before (mk5 Cortina to Sierra for instance).
It might be a combination of increased reliance on tech (too many touchscreens/annoying ADAS systems etc), a smaller choice of engine options and very high pricing on new cars but also I think the newer versions of the above cars look worse than the ones that immediately preceded them. They still look modern but less bland and more cohesive. I accept that there are exceptions of course, for instance, I think the 2nd generation Nissan Juke is a much better-looking car than its predecessor and one that I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive any more and conversely, we looked at a 2012 (so previous generation) Mazda 2 for my wife recently, a car that I remember quite liking when it was new and it was still a nice car but looked and felt very dated now compared to the 2015 Renault Clio/2014 Fiesta for example.
Other examples where I much prefer the previous generation car: BMW 1/5-Series, Audi A4 (guess it's the A5 now but I really liked the B9 A4), Mercedes-Benz C-Class (the boot is far too short on the current one and no V8 option), Nissan Leaf, SEAT Leon, Skoda Octavia, VW Tiguan.
So am I alone in thinking that in 2025, the previous generation car generally offers you a better value, better-looking alternative that's just as reliable with all the features that you need/want but without the annoying tech or am I just a grumpy old man shouting at the clouds?
It might be a combination of increased reliance on tech (too many touchscreens/annoying ADAS systems etc), a smaller choice of engine options and very high pricing on new cars but also I think the newer versions of the above cars look worse than the ones that immediately preceded them. They still look modern but less bland and more cohesive. I accept that there are exceptions of course, for instance, I think the 2nd generation Nissan Juke is a much better-looking car than its predecessor and one that I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive any more and conversely, we looked at a 2012 (so previous generation) Mazda 2 for my wife recently, a car that I remember quite liking when it was new and it was still a nice car but looked and felt very dated now compared to the 2015 Renault Clio/2014 Fiesta for example.
Other examples where I much prefer the previous generation car: BMW 1/5-Series, Audi A4 (guess it's the A5 now but I really liked the B9 A4), Mercedes-Benz C-Class (the boot is far too short on the current one and no V8 option), Nissan Leaf, SEAT Leon, Skoda Octavia, VW Tiguan.
So am I alone in thinking that in 2025, the previous generation car generally offers you a better value, better-looking alternative that's just as reliable with all the features that you need/want but without the annoying tech or am I just a grumpy old man shouting at the clouds?
Depends on car and manufacturer.
Many cars have had issues/missing functionality since Covid due to factory shutdowns and parts shortgages for example, so 'standard' or optional equipment levels changed wildly over the past 2-3 years for some brands.
Cars have had to meet different and more difficult regulations around safety and emissions etc.
Certainly switching off ADAS stuff is a pain but many car makers give you single buttons/modes to disable this dangerous nonsense thankfully. It's a shame that modern cars weigh more and more but that's not the car makers fault really given all the safety aids that are mandated today.
On the plus side - cars seem to be extracting more performance and better economy due to physics stuff/technical advantages etc.
So if i rewind 2 years - 23'plate M3 G80 vs 25 plate G81 - i've got the ADAS stuff to disable every journey vs 25-30BHP more, plus improvements to gearbox, suspension and loads more.
The other change that will become more evident over time is auto-only gearboxes (as that's the only way they can precisely control emissions ) for many cars. So if you want to guarantee a manual gearchange, you will be looking back at previous model cycles.
Many cars have had issues/missing functionality since Covid due to factory shutdowns and parts shortgages for example, so 'standard' or optional equipment levels changed wildly over the past 2-3 years for some brands.
Cars have had to meet different and more difficult regulations around safety and emissions etc.
Certainly switching off ADAS stuff is a pain but many car makers give you single buttons/modes to disable this dangerous nonsense thankfully. It's a shame that modern cars weigh more and more but that's not the car makers fault really given all the safety aids that are mandated today.
On the plus side - cars seem to be extracting more performance and better economy due to physics stuff/technical advantages etc.
So if i rewind 2 years - 23'plate M3 G80 vs 25 plate G81 - i've got the ADAS stuff to disable every journey vs 25-30BHP more, plus improvements to gearbox, suspension and loads more.
The other change that will become more evident over time is auto-only gearboxes (as that's the only way they can precisely control emissions ) for many cars. So if you want to guarantee a manual gearchange, you will be looking back at previous model cycles.
Pretty much, yes.
If I look at the my last couple of cars ; 2020 Audi A5, 2018 Leon Fr. I think both of those are superior to the current model. There's been a big drop in build quality, the introduction of annoying "safety" aids, and buttons have been replaced by screens and touch-sensitive 'buttons'.
If I look at the my last couple of cars ; 2020 Audi A5, 2018 Leon Fr. I think both of those are superior to the current model. There's been a big drop in build quality, the introduction of annoying "safety" aids, and buttons have been replaced by screens and touch-sensitive 'buttons'.
CMTMB said:
Pretty much, yes.
If I look at the my last couple of cars ; 2020 Audi A5, 2018 Leon Fr. I think both of those are superior to the current model. There's been a big drop in build quality, the introduction of annoying "safety" aids, and buttons have been replaced by screens and touch-sensitive 'buttons'.
I agree. I have a 2018 Leon FR Technology. I test drove a 2024 equivalent & much preferred my current car. If I look at the my last couple of cars ; 2020 Audi A5, 2018 Leon Fr. I think both of those are superior to the current model. There's been a big drop in build quality, the introduction of annoying "safety" aids, and buttons have been replaced by screens and touch-sensitive 'buttons'.
I suspect its worse than that, in as much as I'd not want any car built in the new era where speed limiters and ADAS are compulsory, rather than nice to have options, which means that the 'sweet spot' cars to which you refer will get harder and harder to buy and own as they will get older and higher mileage generally.
Added to which, the complexity even of cars made say 10 yrs ago makes them much worse ownership propositions than older cars. I base this on my sample of two cars, a 2014 CLS which has an array of expensive sensors which fail on a rolling basis, and my 2003 996 4S which generally only has mechanical things which rarely go wrong.
Added to which, the complexity even of cars made say 10 yrs ago makes them much worse ownership propositions than older cars. I base this on my sample of two cars, a 2014 CLS which has an array of expensive sensors which fail on a rolling basis, and my 2003 996 4S which generally only has mechanical things which rarely go wrong.
CMTMB said:
Pretty much, yes.
If I look at the my last couple of cars ; 2020 Audi A5, 2018 Leon Fr. I think both of those are superior to the current model. There's been a big drop in build quality, the introduction of annoying "safety" aids, and buttons have been replaced by screens and touch-sensitive 'buttons'.
I forgot to mention quality. I looked at a mk8 Golf just for interest and was very disappointed in the drop in quality (perceived quality at any rate) of that vs. my mk7 Golf.If I look at the my last couple of cars ; 2020 Audi A5, 2018 Leon Fr. I think both of those are superior to the current model. There's been a big drop in build quality, the introduction of annoying "safety" aids, and buttons have been replaced by screens and touch-sensitive 'buttons'.
Glosphil said:
CMTMB said:
Pretty much, yes.
If I look at the my last couple of cars ; 2020 Audi A5, 2018 Leon Fr. I think both of those are superior to the current model. There's been a big drop in build quality, the introduction of annoying "safety" aids, and buttons have been replaced by screens and touch-sensitive 'buttons'.
I agree. I have a 2018 Leon FR Technology. I test drove a 2024 equivalent & much preferred my current car. If I look at the my last couple of cars ; 2020 Audi A5, 2018 Leon Fr. I think both of those are superior to the current model. There's been a big drop in build quality, the introduction of annoying "safety" aids, and buttons have been replaced by screens and touch-sensitive 'buttons'.
I bought my manual E90 BMW 330i nearly 7 years ago so I'm a few generations behind the times, but I wouldn't even want an E90 facelift 330i because it has the N53 engine that is known for having fuel injector and High Pressure Fuel Pump issues. The only other 6 cylinder option was the 335i with the twin-turbo N54 that had similar issues, plus potential turbo problems.
A straight 6 always used to be a BMW sweet spot but the next generation F3* 330i had a 4 cylinder turbo engine and the only petrol 6 had a turbo, and I'm not sure you could get a manual gearbox on either of them.
Same problems with the G2* followed by the G5* models that came with all the nanny systems I'd have to keep turning off!
A straight 6 always used to be a BMW sweet spot but the next generation F3* 330i had a 4 cylinder turbo engine and the only petrol 6 had a turbo, and I'm not sure you could get a manual gearbox on either of them.
Same problems with the G2* followed by the G5* models that came with all the nanny systems I'd have to keep turning off!
white_goodman said:
Just a theory based on some of the cars that I have owned more recently: mk7 Golf, 4th gen Clio (2015), mk7 Fiesta (2014) etc but they were all fantastic cars and I never really desired the newer model/generation car. It sounds like a grumpy old git thing to say but I've always been broadly of the opinion that the new model is an improvement/evolution of the one that came before but maybe people in the 80s/90s were saying the same thing then about the new model being a step back from what came before (mk5 Cortina to Sierra for instance).
It might be a combination of increased reliance on tech (too many touchscreens/annoying ADAS systems etc), a smaller choice of engine options and very high pricing on new cars but also I think the newer versions of the above cars look worse than the ones that immediately preceded them. They still look modern but less bland and more cohesive. I accept that there are exceptions of course, for instance, I think the 2nd generation Nissan Juke is a much better-looking car than its predecessor and one that I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive any more and conversely, we looked at a 2012 (so previous generation) Mazda 2 for my wife recently, a car that I remember quite liking when it was new and it was still a nice car but looked and felt very dated now compared to the 2015 Renault Clio/2014 Fiesta for example.
Other examples where I much prefer the previous generation car: BMW 1/5-Series, Audi A4 (guess it's the A5 now but I really liked the B9 A4), Mercedes-Benz C-Class (the boot is far too short on the current one and no V8 option), Nissan Leaf, SEAT Leon, Skoda Octavia, VW Tiguan.
So am I alone in thinking that in 2025, the previous generation car generally offers you a better value, better-looking alternative that's just as reliable with all the features that you need/want but without the annoying tech or am I just a grumpy old man shouting at the clouds?
No,not at all. For a long time we have heard the pub bore cry ‘They don’t make ‘em like they used to ‘ whilst you may be thinking ‘ thank God.’ But the chant of the bore is just a cliche. In the last decade, though, we have witnessed the rise and rise of the screen and unwanted safety aids, That’s what adds to the attraction of older ( not ancient) vehicles and it’s evidenced in an informed, rather than knee-jerk manner almost daily on PH. It might be a combination of increased reliance on tech (too many touchscreens/annoying ADAS systems etc), a smaller choice of engine options and very high pricing on new cars but also I think the newer versions of the above cars look worse than the ones that immediately preceded them. They still look modern but less bland and more cohesive. I accept that there are exceptions of course, for instance, I think the 2nd generation Nissan Juke is a much better-looking car than its predecessor and one that I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive any more and conversely, we looked at a 2012 (so previous generation) Mazda 2 for my wife recently, a car that I remember quite liking when it was new and it was still a nice car but looked and felt very dated now compared to the 2015 Renault Clio/2014 Fiesta for example.
Other examples where I much prefer the previous generation car: BMW 1/5-Series, Audi A4 (guess it's the A5 now but I really liked the B9 A4), Mercedes-Benz C-Class (the boot is far too short on the current one and no V8 option), Nissan Leaf, SEAT Leon, Skoda Octavia, VW Tiguan.
So am I alone in thinking that in 2025, the previous generation car generally offers you a better value, better-looking alternative that's just as reliable with all the features that you need/want but without the annoying tech or am I just a grumpy old man shouting at the clouds?
Not necessarily the previous gen, just cars made between 2000 and 2010.
New enough to be reliable, economical and powerful, with the safety features you actually want (abs, traction and stability control) but not so new to have unreliable dpfs/emissions stuff, lots of haptic controls, safety stuff you dont want (lane assist, speed limit warnings, auto braking)
New enough to be reliable, economical and powerful, with the safety features you actually want (abs, traction and stability control) but not so new to have unreliable dpfs/emissions stuff, lots of haptic controls, safety stuff you dont want (lane assist, speed limit warnings, auto braking)
I drive a fair variety of vehicles, cars, vans, even the odd pick up and I personally feel that cars generally peaked at about 2016-2020. The current generation of cars I drive through work, for me are now too full of driver assists such as lane assist, automatic braking, speed warnings and my least favourite is in new Fords which bongs far too regularly to tell me to take a break and driver fatigue. I think maybe a lot of these systems are in their infancy and don't work particularly well.
This is a favourite topic in Porsche circles. Manual, air-cooled, sports car only manufacturer and so on.
I have come to the conclusion that the very best Porsche was built in 1948 and every succeeding generation was in some way inferior. Can't wait for the next generation of Porsches so I can immediately comment on how bad they are
..............
I have come to the conclusion that the very best Porsche was built in 1948 and every succeeding generation was in some way inferior. Can't wait for the next generation of Porsches so I can immediately comment on how bad they are
.............."$currentyear minus ~10-15 years was the golden age of cars" appears to have been the constant mantra of petrolheads for as long as I can remember.
In the late 2000s, the was said of mid-late 90s cars and I can remember 80s cars being held up as some sort of panacea to all of the problems of "new cars are too full of electronics" in the mid 90s.
My theory is that it just reflects the various stages of the change curve, and it takes petrolheads a decade or so to get through it.
In the late 2000s, the was said of mid-late 90s cars and I can remember 80s cars being held up as some sort of panacea to all of the problems of "new cars are too full of electronics" in the mid 90s.
My theory is that it just reflects the various stages of the change curve, and it takes petrolheads a decade or so to get through it.
RDMcG said:
This is a favourite topic in Porsche circles. Manual, air-cooled, sports car only manufacturer and so on.
I have come to the conclusion that the very best Porsche was built in 1948 and every succeeding generation was in some way inferior. Can't wait for the next generation of Porsches so I can immediately comment on how bad they are..............
I have come to the conclusion that the very best Porsche was built in 1948 and every succeeding generation was in some way inferior. Can't wait for the next generation of Porsches so I can immediately comment on how bad they are
..............
brillomaster said:
Not necessarily the previous gen, just cars made between 2000 and 2010.
New enough to be reliable, economical and powerful, with the safety features you actually want (abs, traction and stability control) but not so new to have unreliable dpfs/emissions stuff, lots of haptic controls, safety stuff you dont want (lane assist, speed limit warnings, auto braking)
This is where my feelings are on cars. I've never owned anything newer than a 2010 but mostly because there are so many appealing cars from that era. That may be because I first started driving in 1999 so I grew up admiring many of them. New enough to be reliable, economical and powerful, with the safety features you actually want (abs, traction and stability control) but not so new to have unreliable dpfs/emissions stuff, lots of haptic controls, safety stuff you dont want (lane assist, speed limit warnings, auto braking)
I have driven newer cars but I've not seen any new features or changes that make me go, "wow, I need this in my car". Audio wise, it's quite handy to connect your phone better but that's really it. I don't like many of the safety features which interfere with driving. The only feature I would admit to liking in a GLC I drove was how the parking sensors detected how close the kerb you were. I mean a dipped mirror works just fine but that was quite good.
There just haven't been many cars I've seen that are new (within the last 5 years) that I've really fancied. But the 00's car as said were reliable, had a balance of worthwhile features without them overwhelming the drive.
In 2005 I was buying a new pickup and the (then) new L200 was available for £2k more than the older version, both new.
I opted to buy the older model, it was warrior spec with all the extras possible, I figured it had been around for donkeys and I assumed any niggles would have been resolved. It was a bit pants, dead slow engine despite the ralliart map being included, its turning circle was comical, and with the new shape available the value plummeted (sold at 135k miles for £1.5k)
I opted to buy the older model, it was warrior spec with all the extras possible, I figured it had been around for donkeys and I assumed any niggles would have been resolved. It was a bit pants, dead slow engine despite the ralliart map being included, its turning circle was comical, and with the new shape available the value plummeted (sold at 135k miles for £1.5k)
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff