Engine failure

[AJ80]

Hi all,

If anyone has any advice on the following it'd really be appreciated.

I took my Mazda 6 Skyactiv D 2014 to a turbo replacement specialist a few weeks ago as it was down on power. They replaced the turbo, told me it was ready. I paid them the £1800, got in the car and it smelt of fumes. I presumed they were just residual workshop fumes and would just clear. This wasn't the case though. They persisted so I took the car back. After 3 hours they said it's ready. Still smelt of fumes although less so. They were going to take another look but then the engine seized.

Car has done about 91000 miles. Engine seized 84 miles since turbo replacement.

Turbo company are trying to wash their hands of it stating it's an engine failure and unlikely to be turbo related.

I'd like to get the car engine inspected by an engineer. Happy to pay for it to be torn down as I'd like to know what's happened. I have rang multiple IAEA engineers but non of them want the work. The one guy said "it's a dirty just isn't it - no not for me".

So I don't know what to do now. I've paid the money to have the car fixed and now I can't even use it.

Does anyone know how likely is it this failure was caused by the turbo from what I've written and how likely it is an engineer could find the cause? Also, does anybody know any engineers that would do this work as I can't find anyone?

Thanks for any help. I'm bloody sick and tired of this

[Robertb]

I'd imagine a turbo failure could certainly cause engine failure, if bits of turbo were ingested by the engine.

The question is whether the failure was triggered prior to the turbo being replaced, if the initial power loss was due to the turbo failing.

If you are going to pay for an engine tear-down it might be worth considering simply getting a replacement engine if you want to stick with the car, or cut losses and move on.

Presumably just removing and inspecting the turbo will give you a clue as to whether its related to the engine failure, and will be less invasive than a complete engine strip.

Edited by Robertb on Monday 16th February 15:01

[Krikkit]

Doesn't really need an engineer, just a garage with a decent local reputation imho.

[Hoofy]

Yeah, I'd be tempted to pay a local mechanic a couple of hours' labour to remove the turbo and have a good look. If the turbo is fine, then the engine was on its way out (but did it make any noises prior to dying?). Also consider how noisy diesels are, it might be hard to tell. I'd also have a look on Google to see how reliable these engines are and common issues, plus any engines failing around your mileage.

[AJ80]

Hoofy said:

Yeah, I'd be tempted to pay a local mechanic a couple of hours' labour to remove the turbo and have a good look. If the turbo is fine, then the engine was on its way out (but did it make any noises prior to dying?). Also consider how noisy diesels are, it might be hard to tell. I'd also have a look on Google to see how reliable these engines are and common issues, plus any engines failing around your mileage.

Thanks for all replies.

It's a bit legal, they're asking for dated photographs, inspection methodology, technical details, evidence based causal link to the workmanship they carried out etc.

This is why I thought perhaps more engineer level. Trouble is I can't get one to help me. I guess they just don't like this type of work and have plenty of other work they can be getting on with. Do you know the likelihood of finding the cause definitively in these situations?

The engine sounded a little rough about 1 mile before the failure when accelerating on about half throttle. No knocking or changes in power, just rough, a bit like for a few seconds it was half old tractor and half modern diesel if that makes sense.

[Doesitdrive]

AJ80 said:

Hi all,

If anyone has any advice on the following it'd really be appreciated.

I took my Mazda 6 Skyactiv D 2014 to a turbo replacement specialist a few weeks ago as it was down on power. They replaced the turbo, told me it was ready. I paid them the £1800, got in the car and it smelt of fumes. I presumed they were just residual workshop fumes and would just clear. This wasn't the case though. They persisted so I took the car back. After 3 hours they said it's ready. Still smelt of fumes although less so. They were going to take another look but then the engine seized.

Car has done about 91000 miles. Engine seized 84 miles since turbo replacement.

Turbo company are trying to wash their hands of it stating it's an engine failure and unlikely to be turbo related.

I'd like to get the car engine inspected by an engineer. Happy to pay for it to be torn down as I'd like to know what's happened. I have rang multiple IAEA engineers but non of them want the work. The one guy said "it's a dirty just isn't it - no not for me".

So I don't know what to do now. I've paid the money to have the car fixed and now I can't even use it.

Does anyone know how likely is it this failure was caused by the turbo from what I've written and how likely it is an engineer could find the cause? Also, does anybody know any engineers that would do this work as I can't find anyone?

Thanks for any help. I'm bloody sick and tired of this

Was a turbo issue diagnosed as the original issue or did you just go and get a new turbo fitted thinking it was that?

Is it not possible another issue was present. Undiagnosed and the new turbo is a red herring. ?

Ask for the old turbo and see if it is all still there, or bits of it have gone into your engine, I would have thought if that was the case a turbo specialist would have noticed though.

Depending on if you need the car, going to a lot of expensive diagnosis will take time. Probably best spent on a replacement engine or another car.

[Hoofy]

AJ80 said:

Hoofy said:

Yeah, I'd be tempted to pay a local mechanic a couple of hours' labour to remove the turbo and have a good look. If the turbo is fine, then the engine was on its way out (but did it make any noises prior to dying?). Also consider how noisy diesels are, it might be hard to tell. I'd also have a look on Google to see how reliable these engines are and common issues, plus any engines failing around your mileage.

Thanks for all replies.

It's a bit legal, they're asking for dated photographs, inspection methodology, technical details, evidence based causal link to the workmanship they carried out etc.

This is why I thought perhaps more engineer level. Trouble is I can't get one to help me. I guess they just don't like this type of work and have plenty of other work they can be getting on with. Do you know the likelihood of finding the cause definitively in these situations?

The engine sounded a little rough about 1 mile before the failure when accelerating on about half throttle. No knocking or changes in power, just rough, a bit like for a few seconds it was half old tractor and half modern diesel if that makes sense.

Sounds like you do need an expert which will probably cost as much as putting a new turbo in or getting your engine refurbed.

[sortedcossie]

Doesitdrive said:

AJ80 said:

Hi all,

If anyone has any advice on the following it'd really be appreciated.

I took my Mazda 6 Skyactiv D 2014 to a turbo replacement specialist a few weeks ago as it was down on power. They replaced the turbo, told me it was ready. I paid them the £1800, got in the car and it smelt of fumes. I presumed they were just residual workshop fumes and would just clear. This wasn't the case though. They persisted so I took the car back. After 3 hours they said it's ready. Still smelt of fumes although less so. They were going to take another look but then the engine seized.

Car has done about 91000 miles. Engine seized 84 miles since turbo replacement.

Turbo company are trying to wash their hands of it stating it's an engine failure and unlikely to be turbo related.

I'd like to get the car engine inspected by an engineer. Happy to pay for it to be torn down as I'd like to know what's happened. I have rang multiple IAEA engineers but non of them want the work. The one guy said "it's a dirty just isn't it - no not for me".

So I don't know what to do now. I've paid the money to have the car fixed and now I can't even use it.

Does anyone know how likely is it this failure was caused by the turbo from what I've written and how likely it is an engineer could find the cause? Also, does anybody know any engineers that would do this work as I can't find anyone?

Thanks for any help. I'm bloody sick and tired of this

Was a turbo issue diagnosed as the original issue or did you just go and get a new turbo fitted thinking it was that?

Is it not possible another issue was present. Undiagnosed and the new turbo is a red herring. ?

Ask for the old turbo and see if it is all still there, or bits of it have gone into your engine, I would have thought if that was the case a turbo specialist would have noticed though.

Depending on if you need the car, going to a lot of expensive diagnosis will take time. Probably best spent on a replacement engine or another car.

This for sure, they don't "just fail" especially at that mileage in a pretty unstressed installation - there will be a cause, and if that cause wasn't found the new turbo will fail again or worse.

Edited by sortedcossie on Tuesday 17th February 10:17

[Decky_Q]

As was said, it could be a hundred things and not all would the garages fault.

My sympathies, it's a tough situation to be in. Whatever the result it isnt going to be quick, so another car or engine could be the way to proceed.

If replacing the engine they will be able to diagnose the old engine for not much more, and you could then pursue any costs if the turbo garage were proven negligent.

[Decky_Q]

Just to add, asking for the diagnosis methodology, images to back up diagnosis and the causal link to their work is standard stuff, it's just asking for proof they did something negligently rather than a statement from a random garage saying it was their fault with no explanation.

[Yellowfez]

If you want to know for the sake of it go ahead, but if you want to claim engine failure off the garage that did the turbo than it’s probably not worth the hassle or cost, you could go down the small claims route but it’s a gamble

[AJ80]

Hoofy said:

Sounds like you do need an expert which will probably cost as much as putting a new turbo in or getting your engine refurbed.

Yeah you might be right.

If an engineer confirmed the cause as the turbo, I should be able to recover all my losses. It's a risk though. That's why I could do know knowing the chances they would be able to track the cause down really.

[WPA]

I doubt that the turbo was the real issue, I suspect you had low oil pressure that in turn lead to oil starvation to the turbo bearings.

Diesels tend to clog oil galleries

[SimonTheSailor]

Sounds like damage was already done (or had started) and putting a new turbo on just finished it off. The old turbo could have indeed been knackered so a new one was installed, but bearings could have been damaged by some oil starvation at some point. Put a new turbo in and get it working right again back to normal power and BOOM - damaged bearings/bits take more of abuse sending them to their demise.
Who knows though - difficult situation to be in/prove. Could spend a lot of money investigating and get no definite answer to proceed one way or another .

Edited by SimonTheSailor on Tuesday 17th February 11:24

[motco]

When you say "Siezed" do you mean it stopped as if you'd turned it off, or is it now impossible to turn the engine by hand or starter?

[AJ80]

motco said:

When you say "Siezed" do you mean it stopped as if you'd turned it off, or is it now impossible to turn the engine by hand or starter?

Hydraulically seized. The failure was quite catastrophic. Fairly loud bang followed by a cloud of blue smoke, the sound of metal going under the car. When I pulled over there was oil dripping onto the road. Possibly thrown a con rod but I've not looked.

[motco]

That sounds like the automotive equivalent of a cow lying on its back, legs in the air and coughing up blood! In short it's stuffed - sorry.

[AJ80]

motco said:

That sounds like the automotive equivalent of a cow lying on its back, legs in the air and coughing up blood! In short it's stuffed - sorry.

Yeah. Made me think of F1 engine failures seeing all the smoke pouring out the back. God knows what the guy in the car behind was thinking

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

WPA said:

I doubt that the turbo was the real issue, I suspect you had low oil pressure that in turn lead to oil starvation to the turbo bearings.

Diesels tend to clog oil galleries

This, the low oil pressure is what eventually killed the engine and caused it to seize

[motco]

AJ80 said:

motco said:

That sounds like the automotive equivalent of a cow lying on its back, legs in the air and coughing up blood! In short it's stuffed - sorry.

Yeah. Made me think of F1 engine failures seeing all the smoke pouring out the back. God knows what the guy in the car behind was thinking

Hydraulic lock could be caused by lubricating oil from a failed oil seal in the turbo letting large amounts of oil being fed into the engine's air intake. Sometimes a diesel with a failed oil seal will run uncontrollably on engine oil until the sump is empty whereupon the engine seizes. Yours might be a variant on that theme where oil is in the wrong place but in large amounts.

What do others think?