Why are modern dashboard warnings so useless?
Discussion
There was a time when the instrument panel in front of you was quite important. The charge light told you the fanbelt had probably broken, low oil pressure gauge reading or light meant stop and investigate immediately, temperature gauge warned of impending doom etc.
As car design moved on, you got useful things like fluid level lights etc. and a real highpoint was individually identified tyre pressure readings (and a warning if one dropped much below the optimum.
So what went wrong?
The individual tyre pressure readings were replaced in most vehicles by a warning that came on seemingly randomly when you were on a wet motorway in the middle of the night and didn't identify even which tyre it was telling you about.
A plethora of strange symbols and warnings started appearing randomly and became strangely and dangerously linked. A notification that your lane departure warning wasn't working (switched off anyway but presumably a speck of dust somewhere) could be followed by EPC, engine symbol etc. etc. and even mysteriously degraded performance - extremely hazardous on a motorway. Stop for ten minutes and open the doors and suddenly everything is back to normal. Has some strange healing process taken place? Why don't the warnings operate in real time? If there is a momentary problem somewhere, why such histrionics? Did anyone ask for these systems in their cars?
As car design moved on, you got useful things like fluid level lights etc. and a real highpoint was individually identified tyre pressure readings (and a warning if one dropped much below the optimum.
So what went wrong?
The individual tyre pressure readings were replaced in most vehicles by a warning that came on seemingly randomly when you were on a wet motorway in the middle of the night and didn't identify even which tyre it was telling you about.
A plethora of strange symbols and warnings started appearing randomly and became strangely and dangerously linked. A notification that your lane departure warning wasn't working (switched off anyway but presumably a speck of dust somewhere) could be followed by EPC, engine symbol etc. etc. and even mysteriously degraded performance - extremely hazardous on a motorway. Stop for ten minutes and open the doors and suddenly everything is back to normal. Has some strange healing process taken place? Why don't the warnings operate in real time? If there is a momentary problem somewhere, why such histrionics? Did anyone ask for these systems in their cars?
tification process.It feels much the same as the trend for software (especially Microsoft) to replace informative error messages with rubbish like “Oops, something’s gone wrong”.
I don’t mind simplified warning lights if the underlying issue can be viewed without having to plug in an OBD reader - and probably have to subscribe to a diagnostics service of some sort.
I’m still annoyed by the ‘critical’ safety warnings on my car this morning because of a bit of condensation on the camera.
I don’t mind simplified warning lights if the underlying issue can be viewed without having to plug in an OBD reader - and probably have to subscribe to a diagnostics service of some sort.
I’m still annoyed by the ‘critical’ safety warnings on my car this morning because of a bit of condensation on the camera.
Most important is a temperature gauge, replace by a blue or red led, which doesn't allow you to notice when something is getting hot. Cynic in me says when a red led appears, your engine is cooked and they'll sell you a new one.
And when something does go wrong - iffy battery or faulty abs sensor, then you get 500 amber lights and lose ABS, City Crash, DSC, ASC, LDW, Steering sensor, ABC, 123, CDE, XYZ, BBC. And each individual fault takes turn in bonging and warning you that it no longer works.
And when something does go wrong - iffy battery or faulty abs sensor, then you get 500 amber lights and lose ABS, City Crash, DSC, ASC, LDW, Steering sensor, ABC, 123, CDE, XYZ, BBC. And each individual fault takes turn in bonging and warning you that it no longer works.
vikingaero said:
And when something does go wrong - iffy battery or faulty abs sensor, then you get 500 amber lights and lose ABS, City Crash, DSC, ASC, LDW, Steering sensor, ABC, 123, CDE, XYZ, BBC. And each individual fault takes turn in bonging and warning you that it no longer works.
Got exactly this at the moment, regular garage can't tell what the fault is, they would have to check it all, hopefully when the dealer plug it in tomorrow it will tell them which of these is actually at fault.I have changed the battery and still have all the faults, tried to reset the lights but it didn't work, code reader says no engine faults.
Lack of temperature gauge is a good one. Tells you of issues or just that you need things to cool off. Recall as an 18 year old stuck in London traffic making my way to Imperial College. Traffic a shambles, temp gauge climbing, first tried opening the windows, putting heater on full hot and fan on max. Sorted.
Most temperature "gauges" have been a misleading nonsense for years.
They're generally not a direct reading of engine temperature or linearly representative - they're programmed to climb steadily to bang in the middle and then stay there unless the engine temperature exceeds a certain value when they'll climb nearly instantly to red. Almost as well with a warning light.
Long gone are the days when you'd see the gauge creep up and down as the fan kicked in and out in traffic.
They're generally not a direct reading of engine temperature or linearly representative - they're programmed to climb steadily to bang in the middle and then stay there unless the engine temperature exceeds a certain value when they'll climb nearly instantly to red. Almost as well with a warning light.
Long gone are the days when you'd see the gauge creep up and down as the fan kicked in and out in traffic.
Not just the warnings, but despite now being a "telly" which could display pretty much anything, dashboards seem to be less useful than they were a couple of dials with a small LCD display for the trip computer.
Even something as simple as always displaying the time seems to beyond the capability of some displays. Even back in the 1980s there was usually a clock of some sort available to see the whole time, even if that meant a huge clock being put in place of the rev counter on some poverty spec VWs.
I was also disproportionately annoyed by the Vauxhall Corsa hire car where, when selecting "Dials" for the dashboard display, all you got was a digital speedo with a circle drawn round it, and still the tiny barcode like rev counter in the corner with most of the screen displaying nothing at all.
That's even worse than those "Retro" phones from the 90s which had push buttons mounted around a dial instead of it being an actual dial.
Even something as simple as always displaying the time seems to beyond the capability of some displays. Even back in the 1980s there was usually a clock of some sort available to see the whole time, even if that meant a huge clock being put in place of the rev counter on some poverty spec VWs.
I was also disproportionately annoyed by the Vauxhall Corsa hire car where, when selecting "Dials" for the dashboard display, all you got was a digital speedo with a circle drawn round it, and still the tiny barcode like rev counter in the corner with most of the screen displaying nothing at all.
That's even worse than those "Retro" phones from the 90s which had push buttons mounted around a dial instead of it being an actual dial.
drmike37 said:
How hard would it be for the dashboard to show you the fault code and an explanation of what it means?
Apart from doing dealers out of their diagnostic charges i can t see a downside.
It would cost pennies to include an OBD fault display on the dash/infotainment screen.Apart from doing dealers out of their diagnostic charges i can t see a downside.
Snow and Rocks said:
Most temperature "gauges" have been a misleading nonsense for years.
They're generally not a direct reading of engine temperature or linearly representative - they're programmed to climb steadily to bang in the middle and then stay there unless the engine temperature exceeds a certain value when they'll climb nearly instantly to red. Almost as well with a warning light.
Long gone are the days when you'd see the gauge creep up and down as the fan kicked in and out in traffic.
In the same way that fuel gauges are damped to avoid alarming readouts when cornering or going uphill. Believe me, there is a whole design specification and test procedure to ensure the readout makes sense without causing alarm.They're generally not a direct reading of engine temperature or linearly representative - they're programmed to climb steadily to bang in the middle and then stay there unless the engine temperature exceeds a certain value when they'll climb nearly instantly to red. Almost as well with a warning light.
Long gone are the days when you'd see the gauge creep up and down as the fan kicked in and out in traffic.
Foss62 said:
The individual tyre pressure readings were replaced in most vehicles by a warning that came on seemingly randomly when you were on a wet motorway in the middle of the night and didn't identify even which tyre it was telling you about.
Which cars used to display individual tyre pressure readings and now don't? I can't remember ever driving a new car which didn't have this when the previous version of it did.I've generally noticed the quality of information the dashboard can show you in the event of a problem has only increased - 25 years ago a BMW 5 Series had a temperature gauge and a fuel gauge. The temperature gauge was, like others have mentioned, set to remain in the centre when in normal operating range so gave no more information than a warning light does. There was also an engine management light that could quietly illuminate for 1 of about 1000 different reasons.
Today, the current version of the same car can display a range of messages identifying potential faults and problem far more usefully than before.
Edited by Fox- on Thursday 26th March 15:01
Fox- said:
Foss62 said:
The individual tyre pressure readings were replaced in most vehicles by a warning that came on seemingly randomly when you were on a wet motorway in the middle of the night and didn't identify even which tyre it was telling you about.
Which cars used to display individual tyre pressure readings and now don't? I can't remember ever driving a new car which didn't have this when the previous version of it did.I've generally noticed the quality of information the dashboard can show you in the event of a problem has only increased - 25 years ago a BMW 5 Series had a temperature gauge and a fuel gauge. The temperature gauge was, like others have mentioned, set to remain in the centre when in normal operating range so gave no more information than a warning light does. There was also an engine management light that could quietly illuminate for 1 of about 1000 different reasons.
Today, the current version of the same car can display a range of messages identifying potential faults and problem far more usefully than before.
Edited by Fox- on Thursday 26th March 15:01
My 2019 Mercedes (and my wifes 2020 BMW) will alert you to a tyre pressure issue on the main console and advise if it needs immediate attention or is just a check pressure when convenient.
In the console though it will tell me which tyre is the issue, but thats best done when parked.
And yes, i can get a lot more information from newer cars that i've owned compared to older cars.
Deep Thought said:
Fox- said:
Foss62 said:
The individual tyre pressure readings were replaced in most vehicles by a warning that came on seemingly randomly when you were on a wet motorway in the middle of the night and didn't identify even which tyre it was telling you about.
Which cars used to display individual tyre pressure readings and now don't? I can't remember ever driving a new car which didn't have this when the previous version of it did.I've generally noticed the quality of information the dashboard can show you in the event of a problem has only increased - 25 years ago a BMW 5 Series had a temperature gauge and a fuel gauge. The temperature gauge was, like others have mentioned, set to remain in the centre when in normal operating range so gave no more information than a warning light does. There was also an engine management light that could quietly illuminate for 1 of about 1000 different reasons.
Today, the current version of the same car can display a range of messages identifying potential faults and problem far more usefully than before.
Edited by Fox- on Thursday 26th March 15:01
My 2019 Mercedes (and my wifes 2020 BMW) will alert you to a tyre pressure issue on the main console and advise if it needs immediate attention or is just a check pressure when convenient.
In the console though it will tell me which tyre is the issue, but thats best done when parked.
And yes, i can get a lot more information from newer cars that i've owned compared to older cars.
Also any symbol will show colour coded to identify the risk, from red, to amber and white (which will be for information).
_Rodders_ said:
Well we had proper temperature gauges but some people didn't like the fact they moved.
So now we have needles that say 90 degrees until 30 seconds before your engine melts.
How many engines have you had melt?So now we have needles that say 90 degrees until 30 seconds before your engine melts.
Thermostat went on my C43. Got a warning on my dash pretty much saying the same. Got the car booked in with Mercedes and they sorted it.
By contrast, 2006 BMW Z4 Coupe, temperature gauge. Went for normal to red in an instant when the water pump went. Luckily got the car stopped in time.
FiF said:
Lack of temperature gauge is a good one. Tells you of issues or just that you need things to cool off. Recall as an 18 year old stuck in London traffic making my way to Imperial College. Traffic a shambles, temp gauge climbing, first tried opening the windows, putting heater on full hot and fan on max. Sorted.
Ahhh, the good old days.... Ford Capri - engine getting very hot... heater on full, set to demist with the sunroof open (tilt) - hot air straight up the screen and out the sunroof. Worked a treat. Eventually I replaced the radiator with one that wasn't clogged up with rust and all was well.
Foss62 said:
There was a time when the instrument panel in front of you was quite important. The charge light told you the fanbelt had probably broken, low oil pressure gauge reading or light meant stop and investigate immediately, temperature gauge warned of impending doom etc.
As car design moved on, you got useful things like fluid level lights etc. and a real highpoint was individually identified tyre pressure readings (and a warning if one dropped much below the optimum.
So what went wrong?
The individual tyre pressure readings were replaced in most vehicles by a warning that came on seemingly randomly when you were on a wet motorway in the middle of the night and didn't identify even which tyre it was telling you about.
A plethora of strange symbols and warnings started appearing randomly and became strangely and dangerously linked. A notification that your lane departure warning wasn't working (switched off anyway but presumably a speck of dust somewhere) could be followed by EPC, engine symbol etc. etc. and even mysteriously degraded performance - extremely hazardous on a motorway. Stop for ten minutes and open the doors and suddenly everything is back to normal. Has some strange healing process taken place? Why don't the warnings operate in real time? If there is a momentary problem somewhere, why such histrionics? Did anyone ask for these systems in their cars?
You fail to list your cars, so difficult to know how modern, 'modern' is, or what car(s) you are referring to, but I don't recognise the problems you mention above?As car design moved on, you got useful things like fluid level lights etc. and a real highpoint was individually identified tyre pressure readings (and a warning if one dropped much below the optimum.
So what went wrong?
The individual tyre pressure readings were replaced in most vehicles by a warning that came on seemingly randomly when you were on a wet motorway in the middle of the night and didn't identify even which tyre it was telling you about.
A plethora of strange symbols and warnings started appearing randomly and became strangely and dangerously linked. A notification that your lane departure warning wasn't working (switched off anyway but presumably a speck of dust somewhere) could be followed by EPC, engine symbol etc. etc. and even mysteriously degraded performance - extremely hazardous on a motorway. Stop for ten minutes and open the doors and suddenly everything is back to normal. Has some strange healing process taken place? Why don't the warnings operate in real time? If there is a momentary problem somewhere, why such histrionics? Did anyone ask for these systems in their cars?
We just now get actual messages rather than lights (which themselves can be faulty) and or random symbols.
Low coolant - clear message saying 'Low Coolant', rather than a yellow light
OSF tyre dropped 5psi? - clear message saying "OSF tyre pressure XXpsi (recommended XXpsi)", rather than a single light & guess which tyre, or how low.
Low Fuel - clear message stating miles left and where next fuel station is on route, rather than a light.
Etc
As for resetting when car turned off/on, same as tapping the error light/fuel gauge to see if not was a faulty indicator rather than actual issue.
I'd far rather have today's tech than yesterday with warnings
The tyre pressure one is probably a cost thing.
Individual pressures need sensors in each tyre with a wireless communication back to the car. A general low pressure warning just needs a couple of lines of code in the computer to compare the readings already coming from the ABS sensors.
Hence you only get the former on more premium cars, while the latter is now common even on budget models. My Lexus has the pressure readings, my Skoda had the low pressure warning 17 years ago.
Individual pressures need sensors in each tyre with a wireless communication back to the car. A general low pressure warning just needs a couple of lines of code in the computer to compare the readings already coming from the ABS sensors.
Hence you only get the former on more premium cars, while the latter is now common even on budget models. My Lexus has the pressure readings, my Skoda had the low pressure warning 17 years ago.
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