What makes a good drivers car?
Discussion
It is weird times when you have nearly 1000 bhp EVs weighing 2 tonnes doing 0-60 in 3 seconds all for 50-100kk.
Drivers cars nowadays are full of ECUs controlling everything, think modern cars easily have a 100.
I do wonder if companies will start stripping back to the old days, when drivers cars were light, high revving , high feel cars. Just simpler.
Drivers cars nowadays are full of ECUs controlling everything, think modern cars easily have a 100.
I do wonder if companies will start stripping back to the old days, when drivers cars were light, high revving , high feel cars. Just simpler.
Heaveho said:
Handling and direct steering.
And then the cherries on top ..Seat position, preferably low down.
Pedal positioning, preferably allowing for heel and toe.
Seats...that hold you in well (this is VERY important).
Good gear change feel.
Thin rimmed steering wheel.
Excellent visibility.
Suspension that has suppleness, but also excellent control.
An engine that revs and doesn't ever feel coarse.
I don't think the drivetrain matters that much in all honesty. You can have just as much fun in a hot hatch as a rear wheel drive car.
Electric power steering….. takes away all the feel of a mechanical steering rack. The electric motor takes away a direct link between the tarmac and the wheel. First had it on a 2012 Focus Titanium X. The car needed the electric steering to park itself and for lane control. It made the car feel souless and a bit disconnected sometimes in corners which was very disconcerting….
MattsCar said:
Thin rimmed steering wheel.
I do wonder about this as well. My new to me MX5 has quite a thin steering wheel, and I've noticed a lot of people seem to want to make them thicker and more chunky, but I'm not so sure I want to follow suit. My JCW has an upgraded factory "pro" wheel, which is thicker than the standard one and I drove it again the other day and was shocked by how thick it felt now that I'm used to the thinner one.
So I'm interested as to why this is a good trait when others seem to go the other way.
raspy said:
Instant torque makes for a good driver's car in the real world.
Don't agree with this though. Unless you find EVs and diesels fun. Give an engine you've got to work any day of the week.For me it's mostly a combination of the car doing what you tell it to, and the car telling you what it's doing. Obviously there's more to it than that, but most other things - power, low weight, handling, etc., are a means to those ends rather than ends in themselves.
Comfort is also important. It doesn't matter how responsive and communicative a car is if it's physically unpleasant to drive.
Comfort is also important. It doesn't matter how responsive and communicative a car is if it's physically unpleasant to drive.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 2nd June 22:33
raspy said:
Instant torque makes for a good driver's car in the real world.
That sounds more like an EV or turbo-diesel recipe than a good driver's car. 
A light car with a high revving N/A petrol engine and a linear power delivery, none of that lane discipline, adaptive cruise, auto-braking crap.
IMHO GMA got it spot on, although I prefer the cheaper (it's a relative term) T33 to the T50!
Light weight for starters ! .
THE Finest drivers car is an air cooled 911, weighing say no more than 1,200kgs, complete with a 1/4 full fuel tank, Bilsteins and a minimum of 230hp ( ie one of the 2 x 3.2 Carerras that I once ran as daily s & stupidly sold )
If you haven t driven a light weight air cooled 911, you have no idea what you are missing.
Followed by my old E46 M3 complete with its CSL steering rack, followed by my Clio 182.
Not driven any modern Lotus ( Elise onwards ) or a VX220 Turbo, so no idea what I m probably missing !
THE Finest drivers car is an air cooled 911, weighing say no more than 1,200kgs, complete with a 1/4 full fuel tank, Bilsteins and a minimum of 230hp ( ie one of the 2 x 3.2 Carerras that I once ran as daily s & stupidly sold )
If you haven t driven a light weight air cooled 911, you have no idea what you are missing.
Followed by my old E46 M3 complete with its CSL steering rack, followed by my Clio 182.
Not driven any modern Lotus ( Elise onwards ) or a VX220 Turbo, so no idea what I m probably missing !
Edited by SS427 Camaro on Thursday 4th June 08:40
Edited by SS427 Camaro on Thursday 4th June 08:42
Jap90s said:
The MX5
It's been a great driver's car for 37 years with the same simple formula that great drivers cars had before it:
Good balance, communication / feel, light weight, rear-wheel drive
Not too powerful, not too much grip so you can enjoy it on the road
I actually disagree with this, and I say that as someone who has owned an NA MX-5 and currently owns an ND MX-5 that I bought new. It's been a great driver's car for 37 years with the same simple formula that great drivers cars had before it:
Good balance, communication / feel, light weight, rear-wheel drive
Not too powerful, not too much grip so you can enjoy it on the road
They're great cars, but I don't think they are great driver's cars.
They have okay feedback and communication, but not loads of it. The engines are enjoyable to work but far from exceptional in terms of character and delivery. The ride is generally a little bit wobbly in them, compared to what I'd want in a proper driver's car. As an all-rounder that is also fun to drive, I love my ND, but I don't consider it to be a driver's car. Whenever I drive my Morgan and then get back in the MX-5, I almost feel like I could be in an electric car as it's so tame, docile and easy to drive by comparison (but then after a few days, I fall back in love with the 5!)
At their price point, they are hard to beat. Remove cost from the scenario and I don't think anyone can say it's a great driver's car.
To a degree it’s subjective
I like good steering feel and feedback, quick turn in, a car that’s easy to balance in the throttle, good brake feedback with a longish progressive pedal, plenty of power vs weight, minimal body roll, seats that hold you in.
Lotus Evora was excellent at the above
I like good steering feel and feedback, quick turn in, a car that’s easy to balance in the throttle, good brake feedback with a longish progressive pedal, plenty of power vs weight, minimal body roll, seats that hold you in.
Lotus Evora was excellent at the above
as light as possible, just enough comfort*, more power than absolutely necessary, nimble handling, responsive steering.
I kind of think if each of those have marks out of 10, each one needs at least a 5 and they need to at least total 40 out of 50 in any combination.
I kind of think if each of those have marks out of 10, each one needs at least a 5 and they need to at least total 40 out of 50 in any combination.
- I love my westfield but sometimes I just don't enjoy the prospect of driving it due to being so damn uncomfortable (wind, cramped, climbing in and out.)
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