When to get rid of a "cheap", unreliable car that you love?
Discussion
I've been pretty lucky with my car purchases over the years as most of my 20+ cars have been reliable and not required much outside routine maintenance. My last car, a 2016 Golf TSI Estate was particularly good having been in my ownership for c. 6 years and 100,000 miles and honestly didn't miss a beat. I have only had to give up on 3 cars in that time: a mk4 Golf Gti that had been pretty niggly and then spectacularly failed its first MOT, a WJ Jeep Grand Cherokee that had been pretty unreliable and then its automatic transmission failed and my R56 MINI Cooper, which had some engine issues that I was never successful in diagnosing. I got a year out of the Golf and Jeep and 3 mostly reliable years out of the MINI before I had to give up on them though. I loved all 3 cars and had planned to keep them longer, as I really liked all of them but I got to the end of my patience and at the end of the day, I could afford to replace them.
I do however find myself in a bit of a quandary with my wife's current car, a 2015 Renault Clio 0.9 Tce. We've only had it since the end of January, freshly serviced and MOT'd, 70,000 miles (now on 75,000 miles) when we moved back to the UK. We only paid 4k for it and it's a cool little car, resplendent in its French Racing Blue paint, Dynamique spec, so 16" alloys, cruise, satnav. £20 tax, good mpg and we really enjoy driving it too, it's surprisingly brisk! My hope was that we would keep it for 3 years, then get my wife a small EV and pass it onto my daughter as her first car (as she turns 17 in 3 years time) and then possibly she might pass it on to her younger brother, who is 2 years younger.
However, it's reliability record in the last 6 months has been patchy to say the least. In that time it has had 3 new front suspension top mounts, 3 new tyre pressure sensors, 2 new rear tyres and a new spare wheel/tool kit. Granted quite a few of those things aren't really the car's fault. The trader that sold it to me diddled me on the spare wheel (I should have checked more thoroughly) and even though it had just passed an MOT, I discovered when I went to get a slow puncture fixed that one of the rear tyres was an original from 2015! All in all, I've probably spent about £1,000 on it in 6 months, which is an irritation but a price worth paying to get these niggles sorted (although the keyless entry button on the driver's door still doesn't work, which is a daily annoyance but I haven't had the heart/budget to look into yet). The latest issue though is potentially more serious. An intermittent metallic rattling/grinding. I checked over the suspension/brakes/wheel bearings, it wasn't the engine, as independent of revs/load, so I got a local, independent garage whom I trust to have a look at it and they came to the conclusion that the differential gears in the gearbox were failing. It still drives absolutely fine but the intermittent metallic grinding noises are a little unsettling.
Rebuilding a gearbox is a bit beyond my level of mechanics unfortunately, there's a local gearbox specialist who has quoted me £1,000 to rebuild the gearbox based on me removing and refitting. If I want them to remove/refit, that's an extra £600! I love the car and really want to keep it but what next, is the engine going to blow up? We're in the process of buying a house at the moment, so a lot of legal fees/surveys etc, so can't really afford to replace the car right now but that's quite a chunky bill and how much longer is it really going to last? My wife is a teacher, so is obviously off for August so won't need to use it much but come September, she will have a 30 mile round commute every day and needs a reliable car.
I see my options as follows:
1) Bite the bullet and get it fixed and hope that the car lasts long enough after the fix to make it worthwhile;
2) Trade it in for something similar (Fiesta/Skoda Fabia) etc but that would probably look a bit sus if I'm looking at another "cheap" 2015/2016 vehicle (I don't think they would notice a gearbox issue on a short test drive);
3) Trade it in for something bigger. I have a 2015 Captur dCi, which I could pass on to my wife and in fairness has been trouble free (touches wood), my last car was an Estate and I miss having one, so something like a 5k Peugeot 308 SW Hdi/SEAT Leon ST TDI would suit me well (maybe I might get c. 3k for the Clio)? and upgrading to a bigger car is a bit less suspicious;
4) Just keep on driving the Clio and hope for the best but be aware that it might break (I do have AA) but at that point it's probably worthless? I would hope to be in the financial position to replace it with something similar but nearly new in the near future though ie a 15k Polo/Fabia/Ibiza or the crossover equivalent, so I would only need to make it last another 6 months or so.
So what would you do in this situation? Just get it fixed, which on the face of it is the most cost-effective solution assuming it lasts or is it time to get rid even though we really like the car?
I do however find myself in a bit of a quandary with my wife's current car, a 2015 Renault Clio 0.9 Tce. We've only had it since the end of January, freshly serviced and MOT'd, 70,000 miles (now on 75,000 miles) when we moved back to the UK. We only paid 4k for it and it's a cool little car, resplendent in its French Racing Blue paint, Dynamique spec, so 16" alloys, cruise, satnav. £20 tax, good mpg and we really enjoy driving it too, it's surprisingly brisk! My hope was that we would keep it for 3 years, then get my wife a small EV and pass it onto my daughter as her first car (as she turns 17 in 3 years time) and then possibly she might pass it on to her younger brother, who is 2 years younger.
However, it's reliability record in the last 6 months has been patchy to say the least. In that time it has had 3 new front suspension top mounts, 3 new tyre pressure sensors, 2 new rear tyres and a new spare wheel/tool kit. Granted quite a few of those things aren't really the car's fault. The trader that sold it to me diddled me on the spare wheel (I should have checked more thoroughly) and even though it had just passed an MOT, I discovered when I went to get a slow puncture fixed that one of the rear tyres was an original from 2015! All in all, I've probably spent about £1,000 on it in 6 months, which is an irritation but a price worth paying to get these niggles sorted (although the keyless entry button on the driver's door still doesn't work, which is a daily annoyance but I haven't had the heart/budget to look into yet). The latest issue though is potentially more serious. An intermittent metallic rattling/grinding. I checked over the suspension/brakes/wheel bearings, it wasn't the engine, as independent of revs/load, so I got a local, independent garage whom I trust to have a look at it and they came to the conclusion that the differential gears in the gearbox were failing. It still drives absolutely fine but the intermittent metallic grinding noises are a little unsettling.
Rebuilding a gearbox is a bit beyond my level of mechanics unfortunately, there's a local gearbox specialist who has quoted me £1,000 to rebuild the gearbox based on me removing and refitting. If I want them to remove/refit, that's an extra £600! I love the car and really want to keep it but what next, is the engine going to blow up? We're in the process of buying a house at the moment, so a lot of legal fees/surveys etc, so can't really afford to replace the car right now but that's quite a chunky bill and how much longer is it really going to last? My wife is a teacher, so is obviously off for August so won't need to use it much but come September, she will have a 30 mile round commute every day and needs a reliable car.
I see my options as follows:
1) Bite the bullet and get it fixed and hope that the car lasts long enough after the fix to make it worthwhile;
2) Trade it in for something similar (Fiesta/Skoda Fabia) etc but that would probably look a bit sus if I'm looking at another "cheap" 2015/2016 vehicle (I don't think they would notice a gearbox issue on a short test drive);
3) Trade it in for something bigger. I have a 2015 Captur dCi, which I could pass on to my wife and in fairness has been trouble free (touches wood), my last car was an Estate and I miss having one, so something like a 5k Peugeot 308 SW Hdi/SEAT Leon ST TDI would suit me well (maybe I might get c. 3k for the Clio)? and upgrading to a bigger car is a bit less suspicious;
4) Just keep on driving the Clio and hope for the best but be aware that it might break (I do have AA) but at that point it's probably worthless? I would hope to be in the financial position to replace it with something similar but nearly new in the near future though ie a 15k Polo/Fabia/Ibiza or the crossover equivalent, so I would only need to make it last another 6 months or so.
So what would you do in this situation? Just get it fixed, which on the face of it is the most cost-effective solution assuming it lasts or is it time to get rid even though we really like the car?
Edited by Starsky80 on Friday 24th July 11:27
Tricky one. I've always felt like a car kind of lets you know when it's time to move on. It's hard to articulate but something changes with how you feel about it.
It sounds like you've lost confidence in it, so if you get it repaired will you then be constantly worrying about the next big bill?
It sounds like you've lost confidence in it, so if you get it repaired will you then be constantly worrying about the next big bill?
I wouldn't drop £1000 on a gearbox rebuild, I'd shop around for a used one.
They're not expensive, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147427894723 (random example of a 2015 clio gearbox, £165 +delivery)
They're not expensive, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147427894723 (random example of a 2015 clio gearbox, £165 +delivery)
£1k to rebuild is good work if you can get it, they're dead easy to do once they're off the car and will probably take the bloke an hour or two.
Sit down with a nice cup of tea, take plenty of photos, and if you bugger it up buy a used one for £160, getting it off and on the car is easily the hardest bit.
Sit down with a nice cup of tea, take plenty of photos, and if you bugger it up buy a used one for £160, getting it off and on the car is easily the hardest bit.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Friday 24th July 11:45
It parallels my (now-ex) other half's Clio 0.9 tce. Bought from new drove it for 12 years and 80k+ miles without any drama.
Then a top mount went.
Then a driveshaft started grumbling
Then a spring broke
Then it got a coolant leak
Then one of the rear dear locks gave up.
As good as it had been, it has been replaced with a nearly-new Qashqai (renault / Nissan Alliance was the nearest she could get to another Renault).
She just didn't trust it to not to be in a downward spiral of crap coming her way.
Then a top mount went.
Then a driveshaft started grumbling
Then a spring broke
Then it got a coolant leak
Then one of the rear dear locks gave up.
As good as it had been, it has been replaced with a nearly-new Qashqai (renault / Nissan Alliance was the nearest she could get to another Renault).
She just didn't trust it to not to be in a downward spiral of crap coming her way.
My TT's gearbox decided to die (stuck in gear). It's an automatic. Since I'd put quite a lot of money into it (£3k?) over the last 2-3 years, I considered various options:
-refurb it: anything up to £2500, would cost £150 to get it trailered to a specialist then £150 to review
-replace the gearbox with a used one: would cost about £700 to buy plus £700 to install. Warranteed but if it's f
ked, then it would cost another £700 to remove and replace with the replacement so felt like a gamble.
-replace with a manual box: but I prefer autos.
I decided to scrap it and just put £2k into a new car.
Basically, my rule for cheap cars is that if the fix costs more than 50% of the value of the car, I don't keep the car UNLESS it's an interesting car.
-refurb it: anything up to £2500, would cost £150 to get it trailered to a specialist then £150 to review
-replace the gearbox with a used one: would cost about £700 to buy plus £700 to install. Warranteed but if it's f
ked, then it would cost another £700 to remove and replace with the replacement so felt like a gamble.-replace with a manual box: but I prefer autos.
I decided to scrap it and just put £2k into a new car.
Basically, my rule for cheap cars is that if the fix costs more than 50% of the value of the car, I don't keep the car UNLESS it's an interesting car.
Just had a similar quandary, much loved bmw 330d that id had for 6 years... failed its mot on wheel bearing, drop link, high beams not working, glow plugs fault. Estimated bill to repair about £2,000.
I loved the car, but... it was on 180,000 miles, had rusty arches and dents and scuffs, so... reluctantly, its gone to the scrappy. If the repairs were under a grand id have kept it, but the car was worth 2grand tops, so just not worth it.
I loved the car, but... it was on 180,000 miles, had rusty arches and dents and scuffs, so... reluctantly, its gone to the scrappy. If the repairs were under a grand id have kept it, but the car was worth 2grand tops, so just not worth it.
Once a car dips below £1500 in the sense of what you would actually get for it, rather than its asking price on a sales pitch, it time to let it go. Sadly, the scrapper is probably better than trying to sell, with all the chancers out there and selling to a friend is never a great idea. (Unless, of course, the friend is a mechanic/ hobbyist who asks you for it. )
Unreal said:
I can't love any unreliable car. I can put up with all sorts of foibles but not the lottery of whether the thing is going to work or not. Goes beyond starting and breakdowns and includes things like whether the radio will only work when it feels like it.
Generally in agreement, but with things like iffy radios and no air con, some instrument lighting hit and miss, etc you have to allow a ‘ tolerance’ factor when the car nears the twilight world of bangerdom.As a serial sheddist 4 grand is dangerous territory for me, at that price I would feel obliged to fix it rather than scrap it or put a second hand box in it, that’s why for sheds my post Covid budget is £1500, so if it does throw up something like this I’m not so invested in it, so it’s either around this price or go and get something a bit more expensive and long lasting. I’m doing both at the moment, buying used cars always carries an element of risk.
Ryan80 said:
Drain gearbox oil, refill with a thicker gear oil, see if that helps the noise?
If the rebuild is £1000 and you have to take the box out yourself, i'd be taking the box out and buying a second hand box for much cheaper!
As per Ryan 80, change the gearbox oil and see how much difference it makes.If the rebuild is £1000 and you have to take the box out yourself, i'd be taking the box out and buying a second hand box for much cheaper!
Good luck!
Having just taken a car to WBAC, the things they knocked it down for...
Lack of service history
A lack of current MOT
Check engine light on dash was -£500
Rust on arches marked it down from condition 3 (age related wear and tear) to condition 4 (needing repair)
If the car is in otherwise good nick with servicing and an mot, you could consider WBAC. they do start the engine and move it a few feet in 1st, but no more than that so a gearbox problem would likely go unnoticed.
Keep a poker face when they ask you why youre getting rid of it... 'need a bigger car' is probably sufficient.
Lack of service history
A lack of current MOT
Check engine light on dash was -£500
Rust on arches marked it down from condition 3 (age related wear and tear) to condition 4 (needing repair)
If the car is in otherwise good nick with servicing and an mot, you could consider WBAC. they do start the engine and move it a few feet in 1st, but no more than that so a gearbox problem would likely go unnoticed.
Keep a poker face when they ask you why youre getting rid of it... 'need a bigger car' is probably sufficient.
GeniusOfLove said:
Hoofy said:
Basically, my rule for cheap cars is that if the fix costs more than 50% of the value of the car, I don't keep the car UNLESS it's an interesting car.
That's a sensible rule, and also don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy of "I've spent XYZ on it so should keep spending".Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff