3 year old Defender Engine Seized - advice

[Lee-he7us]

First time poster long time lurker.

I've got a 2023 defender 90 D250, full service history, just gone 1 month out of warranty and the engine has seized solid with 36,000 miles on.

Land Rover now have the car and have provided evidence that the engine is seized, but there was Oil in the car and no debris in Oil filter.

They are telling me that the car is one month out of warranty and the repair is my own problem, current quote is £24,000 for new engine replacement.

I received no offer or letter for extended warranty, admittedly I did buy the car from a non land rover dealer 19 months ago, but still thought I would get any letters?

The dealer has approached JLR for a goodwill claim, but any advice on what to do next?

The car is on a 4 year personal PCP deal, i have contacted the finance company and logged a complaint that the car is not fit for purpose and therefore has broken the contract and i expect them to take it back from me with no further payments from myself ( i know thats unlikely but its what i would like to happen) there turn around time is 8 weeks to look at the complaint.

[Deranged Rover]

Seriously, though, I don't know what the best answer is but i hope you get it sorted without financial ruination - must be very annoying.

[vikingaero]

Lee-he7us said:

F

The car is on a 4 year personal PCP deal, i have contacted the finance company and logged a complaint that the car is not fit for purpose and therefore has broken the contract and i expect them to take it back from me with no further payments from myself ( i know thats unlikely but its what i would like to happen) there turn around time is 8 weeks to look at the complaint.

You have nothing to lose by going through the Finance Companys complaints process and involving the Ombudsman.

[Phateuk]

I didn't realise you could involve the finance company for something like this, why would it concern them?

I thought they can be used to step in if the dealer is being awkward for a genuine warranty claim or something like that

[grudas]

good luck, it'll be a hill you'll have to spend a while climbing and maybe get nothing at the top.

also, vote with your wallet in the future and don't buy products from companies that have well known issues left right and centre with their products... the engines on land / range rovers have been failing for many years.

[Glenn63]

Have they given any incite into the cause of the seizure? There must be some known issue as this isn’t the first time hearing of similar problems. On a pod cast the other week Carl Hartley said his Defender is on its 3rd engine so far. How do they make engines so poorly.

[Crudeoink]

2 year / 20,000 mile services do these things no good. Oil dilution is a real problem exacerbated by short journeys but in reality they still fail with longer journeys. I'm a big fan of JLR products but I'd never buy one without the JLR warranty, especially not the diesels.
Given the car is out of warranty and was purchased from an independent dealer you're going to be in for a fight that will probably take weeks if not months to get sorted. You'll need to prepare to be without a car for a few weeks / months while you get this sorted.

You have two avenues to pursue. One is approaching JLR for a goodwill gesture given it's 3 years old and has a FSH (assume JLR service history not independent?). I'd imagine best case scenario is JLR offering a good will of 40,50,60% towards the costs, expect a fight for this though.
Option 2 is to see what the supplying dealer will do given you purchased from them 19 months ago. I'd imagine they'll be less likely to budge on offering any good will though in my experience.

I doubt you'll get much traction with no extended warranty offers being received. It's up to you to decide if you do or don't want a warranty and seek one out if you do.

[vikingaero]

Phateuk said:

I didn't realise you could involve the finance company for something like this, why would it concern them?

I thought they can be used to step in if the dealer is being awkward for a genuine warranty claim or something like that

Finance Co is jointly liable. If you bought a sofa from DFS on the never never, there was a fault, and DFS weren't playing ball, you can go after the finance co.

[Phateuk]

vikingaero said:

Phateuk said:

I didn't realise you could involve the finance company for something like this, why would it concern them?

I thought they can be used to step in if the dealer is being awkward for a genuine warranty claim or something like that

Finance Co is jointly liable. If you bought a sofa from DFS on the never never, there was a fault, and DFS weren't playing ball, you can go after the finance co.

I can see that if there's a fault within the warranty period, but surely if you get a 10 year finance deal and after 9 years it as an issue what would DFS or the finance company do?

[irc]

At the risk of closing the stable door etc is it a good idea, in general, to PCP a car for 4 years when it only has a 3 year warranty? There are plenty makers that do longer warranties.

I agree it is shocking that a serviced engine seizes at this age.

[Andy86GT]

Although not the case here as only 19 months in, but if the engine had failed near the end of the PCP can you return it without repairing?
In this case, can you terminate the PCP while the vehicle is faulty?, what does the small print say as it may be cheaper than the new engine.

[blue_haddock]

Phateuk said:

I didn't realise you could involve the finance company for something like this, why would it concern them?

I thought they can be used to step in if the dealer is being awkward for a genuine warranty claim or something like that

Technically until the final payment is made its owned by the finance company so as it stands its an issue with their vehicle.

[Wills2]

£24k for a 250hp diesel engine? Got to be a more cost efficient way than that.

These PCPs that run beyond the warranty period are a problem I think, and one that should be resolved via a mandatory powertrain warranty built into the deal, they push 4 year PCPs on new BMWs as it suits their numbers but it leaves the registered keeper with 12 month gap that most can't bridge if the engine goes bang and that's a risk to the lender as well which is also BMW via their FS business.

I think you have more chance of a good will payment if you buy the car new and use their finance as it's all in house and easier for them to pull something together to clean up the asset, but buying used outside of the network with a 3rd party finance provider is always going to be a risk if you don't take the extended warranty out.

I feel for the OP.

[covmutley]

Sorry to hear this OP. I have no experience of this situation but would put my efforts into chasing land rover given it's only just outside the warranty period.

Long shot, but arguably if it's oil dilution, the fault occurred inside the warranty period?

Surely the finance company are covered by some simple wording in their contract, I would have thought?

[Panamax]

Lee-he7us said:

the engine has seized solid with 36,000 miles .

Yes, they do that all the time, out of the blue.

No really, they don't. Tell us more about what led up to this "seizure".

[GT9]

vikingaero said:

Finance Co is jointly liable. If you bought a sofa from DFS on the never never, there was a fault, and DFS weren't playing ball, you can go after the finance co.

Whilst I'd love to believe that, what you appear to be saying is that every single car purchased on finance in the UK has a form of partial warranty protection that protects the buyer.

I'm not sure if you are claiming it to be something that only applies to the first finance agreement from when the car was new or whether it also applies to say a 7 year old car on finance that's 4 years outside of warranty.

As someone who religiously extends the manufacturer warranties on all my cars, I can't say I have a lot a sympathy for people who rely entirely goodwill if something goes wrong. If you want to drive a nice car, then as far as Im concerned, pay the money to properly insure it against all forms of damage or borkage.

[Phateuk]

GT9 said:

vikingaero said:

Finance Co is jointly liable. If you bought a sofa from DFS on the never never, there was a fault, and DFS weren't playing ball, you can go after the finance co.

Whilst I'd love to believe that, what you appear to be saying is that every single car purchased on finance in the UK has a form of partial warranty protection that protects the buyer.

I'm not sure if you are claiming it to be something that only applies to the first finance agreement from when the car was new or whether it also applies to say a 7 year old car on finance that's 4 years outside of warranty.

As someone who religiously extends the manufacturer warranties on all my cars, I can't say I have a lot a sympathy for people who rely entirely goodwill if something goes wrong. If you want to drive a nice car, then as far as Im concerned, pay the money to properly insure it against all forms of damage or borkage.

I extend while the value of the vehicle is high enough to warrant it, when it drops low enough I accept that a potential total loss is on the cards. I extended my L405 until it was worth maybe 15k trade, at that point it felt like £1.9k/yr wasn't good value. When it was say £40k that's not a gamble I'd like to take. There's no way I'd be buying a high risk JLR product this new outside of a franchised dealership

[Lee-he7us]

Panamax said:

Yes, they do that all the time, out of the blue.

No really, they don't. Tell us more about what led up to this "seizure".

My thoughts exactly, yet LR dealer told me "yeh its just one of those things"

The lead up to it failing, was.. car was driving normally, pulled away from a set of lights in town, got to approx 10mph, the car miss-fired badly, then stopped dead, very dangerously, and then would not re-start.

[Lee-he7us]

I also didnt even think to contact the finance company, it was a friend at work that suggested to look into it, and i decided to log the complaint, in effect, the car is technically there car until it is paid for in full.

Im not sure how this is going to play out, but upto now LR dealership seem to think this is just one of those things and the problem is mine.

A fully serviced car with 36,000 miles seizing is a product that is not fit for purpose IMO.

[Lee-he7us]

Glenn63 said:

Have they given any incite into the cause of the seizure? There must be some known issue as this isn t the first time hearing of similar problems. On a pod cast the other week Carl Hartley said his Defender is on its 3rd engine so far. How do they make engines so poorly.

No insight, just a video showing oil level of 3/4 and a clean oil filter, a mechanic showing that the engine will not turn at all, and a £24k repair bill for me to authorise. no further information as to what caused it.