Chinese manufacturer slander
Discussion
I am currently a salesman for a well-known, previously British manufacturer. I am tired of the slander and insults the Chinese are getting.
First and foremost, the company I currently work for was defunct until the 'Chinese' took over. Now? One of the fastest growing brands in Europe, offering affordable prices for motorists across the country while also providing jobs for thousands of people. If they never took over, the brand wouldn't live on, nor would I have a job or would thousands of motorists find themselves in reliable* cars for low prices and low warranties.
I am a huge fan of BMW's, having owned multiple along with Civic Type R's and Mercs. I acknowledge German cars' superiority however after working for this company, I feel like it is has exposed these European and Japanese manufacturers' monopoly on the market. The consumer's have been getting ripped off left, right and center; these new models, like Jaecoo and BYD have given the lower-income demographic the opportunity to drive nice new cars with lots of kit for an affordable price with long warranties. It's not just the lower-income demographic, it is the higher income too. One customer was £6,000 in negative equity on an Audi A6 who lost his job and couldn't justify the high monthlies and chopped the Audi in for one of our models for a much lower price with more tech (!)
Long before the Chinese came with long warranties and 0% APR, the mainstream brands, particularly the European's have been offering low-spec cars for high prices and high APR. Charging optional extras like DAB and heated seats.
The point of this post isn't to promote Chinese cars because they need no promotion, their sales are through the roof and they are rapidly gaining market share.
The reason I posted this is to ask, what is your problem with them? They are churning out quality products for low prices and long warranties. Why does this bother so many?
My dad was always skeptical of the brand I work for and dismissed it as Chinese tat like most of you until I temporarily used a VX Corsa as a demo, and that is when it dawned on him that the Europeans are finished.
I need to ask. Why do so many of you have a problem with the Chinese.....it can't be a political factor because who is constantly in a war or participating in one?
DISCLAIMER - I am not a member of the CCP. Just a man of simple means grateful to work for a company that puts food on my table.
First and foremost, the company I currently work for was defunct until the 'Chinese' took over. Now? One of the fastest growing brands in Europe, offering affordable prices for motorists across the country while also providing jobs for thousands of people. If they never took over, the brand wouldn't live on, nor would I have a job or would thousands of motorists find themselves in reliable* cars for low prices and low warranties.
- Early models have had their fair share of issues; however, all were covered under warranty that actually covers repairs. An example being a customer of mine with 3 months left on her warranty having all tyre pressure sensors replaced free of charge after an intermittent warning light.
I am a huge fan of BMW's, having owned multiple along with Civic Type R's and Mercs. I acknowledge German cars' superiority however after working for this company, I feel like it is has exposed these European and Japanese manufacturers' monopoly on the market. The consumer's have been getting ripped off left, right and center; these new models, like Jaecoo and BYD have given the lower-income demographic the opportunity to drive nice new cars with lots of kit for an affordable price with long warranties. It's not just the lower-income demographic, it is the higher income too. One customer was £6,000 in negative equity on an Audi A6 who lost his job and couldn't justify the high monthlies and chopped the Audi in for one of our models for a much lower price with more tech (!)
Long before the Chinese came with long warranties and 0% APR, the mainstream brands, particularly the European's have been offering low-spec cars for high prices and high APR. Charging optional extras like DAB and heated seats.
The point of this post isn't to promote Chinese cars because they need no promotion, their sales are through the roof and they are rapidly gaining market share.
The reason I posted this is to ask, what is your problem with them? They are churning out quality products for low prices and long warranties. Why does this bother so many?
My dad was always skeptical of the brand I work for and dismissed it as Chinese tat like most of you until I temporarily used a VX Corsa as a demo, and that is when it dawned on him that the Europeans are finished.
I need to ask. Why do so many of you have a problem with the Chinese.....it can't be a political factor because who is constantly in a war or participating in one?
DISCLAIMER - I am not a member of the CCP. Just a man of simple means grateful to work for a company that puts food on my table.
thecremeegg said:
I would wager its two reasons.
1) No doubt using their cars as loss leaders to flood the market and destroy European and other Asian brands.
2) Having seen the build quality on a few of them, you can see why they can sell them so cheap
Fair enough in terms of the first point, I acknowledge that may be a possibility but I have two questions for you1) No doubt using their cars as loss leaders to flood the market and destroy European and other Asian brands.
2) Having seen the build quality on a few of them, you can see why they can sell them so cheap
1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
Chestrockwell said:
Fair enough in terms of the first point, I acknowledge that may be a possibility but I have two questions for you
1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
Your point 2 isn't really true. Massive state/party support. Low interest loans. It's not capitalist at all. 1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
I'm not anti, but you need to understand their long term dominance strategy before eulogising them.
rossub said:
Problem?
We re handing over tens of thousands of pounds per vehicle to a country who is not our friend.
China is playing the long game to suck western economies dry.
The average UK punter is too dumb to see it and just buys the cheapest vehicle that does it for them.
Not me.
A quick google search tells me the second largest source of imported goods is from China with the UK Gov website being the source. We re handing over tens of thousands of pounds per vehicle to a country who is not our friend.
China is playing the long game to suck western economies dry.
The average UK punter is too dumb to see it and just buys the cheapest vehicle that does it for them.
Not me.
Nearly everything we use is made in China, why do we draw the line at cars
rossub said:
Problem?
We re handing over tens of thousands of pounds per vehicle to a country who is not our friend.
China is playing the long game to suck western economies dry.
The average UK punter is too dumb to see it and just buys the cheapest vehicle that does it for them.
Not me.
The bit in bold is so true.We re handing over tens of thousands of pounds per vehicle to a country who is not our friend.
China is playing the long game to suck western economies dry.
The average UK punter is too dumb to see it and just buys the cheapest vehicle that does it for them.
Not me.
The recent spike in carbide prices was down to the Chinese manipulating the market, they want to be the last man standing so they can control the markets, be it cars, raw materials, finished goods or anything other consumer product.
Chestrockwell said:
Fair enough in terms of the first point, I acknowledge that may be a possibility but I have two questions for you
1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
You don't see the difference between Korean and Chinese approaches to economics, competition, foreign policy, human rights? Oblivious to the well publicised goal of Chinese economic domination? Missed all the news reports about spying and hacking and convenient backdoors in both consumer and industrial electronics supplied from China...?1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
Jesus. We're absolutely doomed. Xi Jinping must be pissing himself laughing.
Palmela said:
Chestrockwell said:
Fair enough in terms of the first point, I acknowledge that may be a possibility but I have two questions for you
1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
Your point 2 isn't really true. Massive state/party support. Low interest loans. It's not capitalist at all. 1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
I'm not anti, but you need to understand their long term dominance strategy before eulogising them.
& well they can afford to: their oppression of many parts of China allows them control over vast swathes of their population, which I do have a problem with.
A relative had a young Chinese friend at Uni with them who did not believe Tiananmen Square was a thing, such is the oppression to this day. I am not comfortable with that level of State secrecy.
Maybe that is irrelevant to the OP, and clearly we need jobs, so maybe we have to bow down and take their work.
I am not anti-Chinese cars - they are dominating things, but as above, it does feel like loss-leaders to take market share.
I do, however, have concerns about longevity for spares.
Also: I test drove a BYD before choosing a Hyundai Kona EV. The BYD was great value, but the auto tech (lane keep assist, adaptive cruise) felt very ‘grabby’ to me in my limited 40 minute drive. Happy to remain out of Chinese cars for now.
Palmela said:
Chestrockwell said:
Fair enough in terms of the first point, I acknowledge that may be a possibility but I have two questions for you
1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
Your point 2 isn't really true. Massive state/party support. Low interest loans. It's not capitalist at all. 1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
I'm not anti, but you need to understand their long term dominance strategy before eulogising them.
Jonny_ said:
You don't see the difference between Korean and Chinese approaches to economics, competition, foreign policy, human rights? Oblivious to the well publicised goal of Chinese economic domination? Missed all the news reports about spying and hacking and convenient backdoors in both consumer and industrial electronics supplied from China...?
Jesus. We're absolutely doomed. Xi Jinping must be pissing himself laughing.
Yeah, but they do long warranties and 0% APR so can’t be that bad. Jesus. We're absolutely doomed. Xi Jinping must be pissing himself laughing.
Chestrockwell said:
An example being a customer of mine with 3 months left on her warranty having all tyre pressure sensors replaced free of charge after an intermittent warning light.
Umm.... She had three months left on her warranty, so of course she had the defective parts replaced free of charge...?Jonny_ said:
Chestrockwell said:
Fair enough in terms of the first point, I acknowledge that may be a possibility but I have two questions for you
1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
You don't see the difference between Korean and Chinese approaches to economics, competition, foreign policy, human rights? Oblivious to the well publicised goal of Chinese economic domination? Missed all the news reports about spying and hacking and convenient backdoors in both consumer and industrial electronics supplied from China...?1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
Jesus. We're absolutely doomed. Xi Jinping must be pissing himself laughing.
Now why would they think that? Because they spy on their own people and knew someone else could do it and didn't want them to.
All I am saying is that, we can't sit here and call the Chinese x, y and z even though they are the second-biggest exporter of goods to us.
Furthermore, the Chinese end goal may be total economic domination but is that not everyone's goal?
I may be a small time salesman for a car company but I also like history and what disarms me towards the Chinese is their referral to the 19th Century as the 'Century of Humiliation'
On the face of it, yes they appear to be nefarious but when you consider the fact that british gas profits went 10x at the wake of covid during the cost of living crisis in 2023, who are we to call right and wrong?
Source - The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/15/b...
Chestrockwell said:
Using spying and hacking as an example.....TikTok was nearly banned in the United States unless it was sold to an American company and the owner was interrogated publicly by a US senator. Why? The reason was that under Chinese ownership, they might have been able to spy on US citizens.
Now why would they think that? Because they spy on their own people and knew someone else could do it and didn't want them to.
All I am saying is that, we can't sit here and call the Chinese x, y and z even though they are the second-biggest exporter of goods to us.
Furthermore, the Chinese end goal may be total economic domination but is that not everyone's goal?
I may be a small time salesman for a car company but I also like history and what disarms me towards the Chinese is their referral to the 19th Century as the 'Century of Humiliation'
On the face of it, yes they appear to be nefarious but when you consider the fact that british gas profits went 10x at the wake of covid during the cost of living crisis in 2023, who are we to call right and wrong?
Source - The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/15/b...
I'm sorry, and I don't want this to turn into a pile-on, but what's the relevance of that? Comparing BG and China just doesn't make any sense. I don't understand what your argument is?Now why would they think that? Because they spy on their own people and knew someone else could do it and didn't want them to.
All I am saying is that, we can't sit here and call the Chinese x, y and z even though they are the second-biggest exporter of goods to us.
Furthermore, the Chinese end goal may be total economic domination but is that not everyone's goal?
I may be a small time salesman for a car company but I also like history and what disarms me towards the Chinese is their referral to the 19th Century as the 'Century of Humiliation'
On the face of it, yes they appear to be nefarious but when you consider the fact that british gas profits went 10x at the wake of covid during the cost of living crisis in 2023, who are we to call right and wrong?
Source - The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/15/b...
I think you are wrong about German cars, they have been crap for the last 20 years.
China are building some nice stuff, and selling them cheap.
They are way ahead in ev tech.
Its a bit like when japan took over the motorbike market in the 70's
They build a better product and sell cheaper, its not like the uk has much skin in the game now anyway.
China are building some nice stuff, and selling them cheap.
They are way ahead in ev tech.
Its a bit like when japan took over the motorbike market in the 70's
They build a better product and sell cheaper, its not like the uk has much skin in the game now anyway.
Chestrockwell said:
Palmela said:
Chestrockwell said:
Fair enough in terms of the first point, I acknowledge that may be a possibility but I have two questions for you
1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
Your point 2 isn't really true. Massive state/party support. Low interest loans. It's not capitalist at all. 1. What do you owe these European and Asian brands?
2. Why do we all willingly participate in capitalism but draw the line when the Chinese do it?
I recall the Koreans doing exactly what the Chinese are doing 15 years ago when Hyundai and Kia rebranded and belted out a load of cheap but quality products with long warranties and everybody ate it up
I'm not anti, but you need to understand their long term dominance strategy before eulogising them.
Capitalism is about seeking private profit. Socialist (and other -ist systems) do not exclude or negate seeking profits. But with the like of SAIC, FAW and Dongfeng the profit goes back to the state (so it is, for a certain definition, 'socialised') rather than into private pockets.
What the Chinese socio-economic system is can be hard to get a consensus on. But regular liberal capitalism it certainly isn't. Authoritarian state capitalism - perhaps. With SOEs controlling the majority of the economy's capital and a large amount of central planning and direction maybe it's a form of market socialism. Which is certainly what the CCP like to call it.
As other posters have said, the negativity towards Chinese marques often comes from a sense that they are not 'playing fair'.
Intellectual property and technology gained by nefarious means.
Huge injections of capital and R&D and lengthy establishment and growth periods that no Western enterprise could have.
Labour costs and conditions that no Western company can legally or ethically match.
The ability to price-dump and market-flood because they have the backing of state coffers.
That your purchase £s is directly funding the Chinese state and, therefore, the Chinese Communist Party and its activities.
That buying a Chinese vehicle is a very clear and yet (for now) avoidable sign of apathy or ambivalence to all of the above.
And it's playing a small part in the strangling of Western industries.
And, to reiterate, this isn't some BL versus VW scenario. It's not a fair fight or a free market.
Is it better for the consumer that they can buy MGs and BYDs with great tech and massive performance for less money and with better warranties than the Euro equivalents? Perhaps on an individual level. But it's not a capitalist or consumerist game you're taking part in.
Perhaps this is actually just a damning indictment about the inevitable failure of Liberal capitalism? And authoritatian one-party market socialism really is the superior way to organise society? Perhaps we're all better getting a Jaecoo or an Ora Funky Cat and driving into the red dawn towards the inevitable communist future?
I'm reminded of the phrase often ascribed to Lenin - "the last capitalist will sell us the rope we will use to hang him." As much as I don't want to see the Western economy and liberalism squashed under the Red Might of Socialism With Chinese Characteristics, it's our own (collective fault). Our capitalists bought our politicians, crushed our labour movements, dismantled our social democracies and willingly shook hands with authoritarian non-capitalist regimes just so they had some cheap and pliable workers to bash metal, mine minerals and spin yarn like in the good old days. As societies we've pulled our pants down and bent over for a few pennies.
What's so great about the Chinese referring to the 19th century as their Century of Humiliation? It was a cultural and political trauma that drives their entire national project. China was crushed, ravaged and humiliated by the colonial powers under the unequal treaties and gunboat diplomacy. The colonial powers fractured China from within by playing warlords off each other and left the once-Celestial Empire as a weak captive market for foreigners to extract resources and sell their goods in. Restoring China's unity and greatness was the goal of first the Nationalists then the Communists. Since the end of Mao the CCP has played the long game, seeking to put China in a place that it will never be divided nor oppressed again. It's a national project and redemption that we can barely conceive of in our individualist West, but it drives and shapes everything the CCP does and everything it drives their citizens to do for them. It's not benign and it's not something that can be done by, or where Beijing will accept, half measures or compromise.
It's not pretty.
Chestrockwell said:
I need to ask. Why do so many of you have a problem with the Chinese.....it can't be a political factor because who is constantly in a war or participating in one?
Interesting you say that people's concerns with China can't be a political one and then...Chestrockwell said:
Using spying and hacking as an example.....TikTok was nearly banned in the United States unless it was sold to an American company and the owner was interrogated publicly by a US senator. Why? The reason was that under Chinese ownership, they might have been able to spy on US citizens.
Now why would they think that? Because they spy on their own people and knew someone else could do it and didn't want them to.
... bring up politics in defence of them.Now why would they think that? Because they spy on their own people and knew someone else could do it and didn't want them to.
There are clear and legitimate concerns about Chinese tech and the backdoors present, especially since every Chinese company is, if not outright state owned, under significant influence and control from the CCP. Huawei are totally shut out of our telecoms infrastructure for example, and I'm sure the powers that be had good reason to do so. The MOD have stickers in all their Chinese-made fleet vehicles (why they ever bought them in the first place is beyond me...) explicitly reminding occupants not to talk about anything classified above Official.
The Chinese government also blatantly and overtly control their own people. "The Great Firewall" blocks them from accessing the wider global internet unless in cases explicitly approved by the CCP. Their social credit system prevents people who oppose the regime, or even associate with people who oppose it, from travelling freely. It's a well known joke that if you're ever in an online forum or game with someone from China the mere mention of Tianenmen Square will trigger the censors and get them kicked. Then there's the human rights issues, their crackdown on civil liberties and democracy in Hong Kong, their refusal to acknowledge Taiwanese independence... to cut a long story short I do have political concerns.
That all got a bit NP&E, so- I've driven quite a few Chinese cars, the new ones are fine, apart from all the legally mandated and overly sensitive driver aids. I have about the same level of interest in them as I do in my washing machine, but you can say the same about many modern cars, including those from Western brands I have genuine attachments to (and have no political qualms with).
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff