100bhp... in an EV
Discussion
I've posted before in various comments about my new Mk7 Golf GTE. A little boring but it serves a purpose.
Now, when I first got it, the plan was to drive everywhere in GTE mode but do a bit of an electric charge if I just needed to pop to the shops or everyone was panic-buying petrol (like when I first got the car) but the reality is that I spend so much time in traffic or just driving tediously dull journeys befitting of a mid-range shopping car/mpv/4x4 that I can't even remember the last time I filled the car up - it's been sat with 50% petrol for over a month.
So basically, I'm spending so much time just driving it like it's an EV. And not a very quick one. But it does the job.
Anyway, I'd better get to the point or you'll be expecting me to post a photo of my latté or my last staycation.
One thing I've noticed is that despite the fact that the EV bit is only putting out 100bhp, sometimes it can seem pretty powerful. I joined a d/c from a side road yesterday (with an acceleration lane of about 10 metres long) and got up to speed much more quickly than a Golf with just 100bhp has any right to do so. Obviously, this is down to the instant torque. A quick google suggests I get 125 lbft of them. Still pretty s
t when you think about it (my other car has over 400 of them). And yet, 100bhp feels impressive enough in the moment. I've even experimented with driving on local fast roads in just EV mode and it's not a bad experience (if disappointingly quiet).
So my question is, what is the equivalent in petrol engine terms to 100bhp in EV terms? Could we compare 0-40 times?
(As an aside, no, I'm not going full EV. I cba with the planning. And relying on random st apps. The one app I have to deal with at home is bad enough. And they sound st. Yes, me need brm brm. I guess that's a topic for another day.)
Now, when I first got it, the plan was to drive everywhere in GTE mode but do a bit of an electric charge if I just needed to pop to the shops or everyone was panic-buying petrol (like when I first got the car) but the reality is that I spend so much time in traffic or just driving tediously dull journeys befitting of a mid-range shopping car/mpv/4x4 that I can't even remember the last time I filled the car up - it's been sat with 50% petrol for over a month.
So basically, I'm spending so much time just driving it like it's an EV. And not a very quick one. But it does the job.
Anyway, I'd better get to the point or you'll be expecting me to post a photo of my latté or my last staycation.
One thing I've noticed is that despite the fact that the EV bit is only putting out 100bhp, sometimes it can seem pretty powerful. I joined a d/c from a side road yesterday (with an acceleration lane of about 10 metres long) and got up to speed much more quickly than a Golf with just 100bhp has any right to do so. Obviously, this is down to the instant torque. A quick google suggests I get 125 lbft of them. Still pretty s
t when you think about it (my other car has over 400 of them). And yet, 100bhp feels impressive enough in the moment. I've even experimented with driving on local fast roads in just EV mode and it's not a bad experience (if disappointingly quiet).So my question is, what is the equivalent in petrol engine terms to 100bhp in EV terms? Could we compare 0-40 times?
(As an aside, no, I'm not going full EV. I cba with the planning. And relying on random s
t apps. The one app I have to deal with at home is bad enough. And they sound st. Yes, me need brm brm. I guess that's a topic for another day.)There's no equivalent, it 'feels' faster because an EV has the same torque at whatever speed you're doing, no gears etc. It doesn't have to build to a peak, it is at peak already at 0 mph. 
In a similar way, a turbo car sometimes 'feels' fast because of the time on boost, but overall it often isn't.
In a similar way, a turbo car sometimes 'feels' fast because of the time on boost, but overall it often isn't.
My Dacia Bigster full Hybrid did the same. Woosh! and almost pressed in the seat initial acceleration but then the engine would cut in at high revs in order to charge the little battery, which ruined the experience.
Almost had me thinking about buying a full EV though, but then I remembered that I live in a flat
Almost had me thinking about buying a full EV though, but then I remembered that I live in a flat
Hoofy said:
So my question is, what is the equivalent in petrol engine terms to 100bhp in EV terms? Could we compare 0-40 times?
What you tend to feel subjectively is not so much acceleration as jerk - rate of change (increase) in acceleration.With a petrol car you generally open the throttle from lower rpm, so the acceleration grows gradually until you reach the revs where the engine is making peak torque. With a turbo engine you may get peak torque at those lower revs, but the turbo itself takes time to spin up and make boost, so again it's a progressive rise in acceleration.
An EV can provide peak torque near-instantly, giving very high jerk. In fact most EVs artificially damp the throttle response to make the drive less jerky.
So I think you'd need to measure the 'ramp up time' of reaching max acceleration in both to equate them in terms of jerk.
Conversely in terms of actual acceleration rate, you just need a petrol engine whose average power through the gears is equal to 100hp. So given that the engine is at less than peak power for much of the time, the peak would need to be a fair bit over 100hp to deliver the same average power - how much over depends how peaky the engine delivery is. Maybe 150hp or so?
sixor8 said:
There's no equivalent, it 'feels' faster because an EV has the same torque at whatever speed you're doing, no gears etc. It doesn't have to build to a peak, it is at peak already at 0 mph.
In a similar way, a turbo car sometimes 'feels' fast because of the time on boost, but overall it often isn't.
Yeah, I guess. It's weird (compared to an ICE!).In a similar way, a turbo car sometimes 'feels' fast because of the time on boost, but overall it often isn't.
Mr MXT said:
A short term loan of a Passat GTE gave me the same experience, but I decided it was all so easy on electric that I went full EV.
Not really had to do any planning - charging has been a none issue (Tesla though)
I see a lot of people posting about the need to plan especially for longer journeys. If I go on staycation, I'm leaving the charging cable behind. I'll just fill up with petrol wherever and let it figure things out for me. Not really had to do any planning - charging has been a none issue (Tesla though)
At the risk of going off-topic on my own topic
I wouldn't get a Tesla for two reasons (1) my budget was £7k (2) I wanted a hatchback not a family saloon. I do hear that Tesla are very, very good at what they do, though.croyde said:
My Dacia Bigster full Hybrid did the same. Woosh! and almost pressed in the seat initial acceleration but then the engine would cut in at high revs in order to charge the little battery, which ruined the experience.
Almost had me thinking about buying a full EV though, but then I remembered that I live in a flat
Almost had me thinking about buying a full EV though, but then I remembered that I live in a flat
Switch off the ICE, then. (Although, I guess you'd need to switch it on sometimes - but you can choose those times.)
samoht said:
Hoofy said:
So my question is, what is the equivalent in petrol engine terms to 100bhp in EV terms? Could we compare 0-40 times?
What you tend to feel subjectively is not so much acceleration as jerk - rate of change (increase) in acceleration.With a petrol car you generally open the throttle from lower rpm, so the acceleration grows gradually until you reach the revs where the engine is making peak torque. With a turbo engine you may get peak torque at those lower revs, but the turbo itself takes time to spin up and make boost, so again it's a progressive rise in acceleration.
An EV can provide peak torque near-instantly, giving very high jerk. In fact most EVs artificially damp the throttle response to make the drive less jerky.
So I think you'd need to measure the 'ramp up time' of reaching max acceleration in both to equate them in terms of jerk.
Conversely in terms of actual acceleration rate, you just need a petrol engine whose average power through the gears is equal to 100hp. So given that the engine is at less than peak power for much of the time, the peak would need to be a fair bit over 100hp to deliver the same average power - how much over depends how peaky the engine delivery is. Maybe 150hp or so?
When I was thinking about writing this topic, I wondered if perhaps it would be like driving a 150bhp Golf (I've never driven one so don't know how "quick" or otherwise they are). I guess it's how "boosty" it is when the turbo kicks in and that's the way to compare that EV torque surge.
You mention the damping - part of the equation is that I don't floor it because I don't like wheelspin, so will feather the throttle while guestimating how much "power" I can put down. So I guess that wouldn't be too far off a Golf with a light turbo... maybe even a Turbo Diesel one because of the lower torque?
EV's do feel more 'powerful' in the same way that turbo diesels did, instant torque. It's also the usability, in the way that all of the power is available to anyone driving and especially they are automatics or just forward and reverse in most cases. When accelerating away in an EV it can be quite amusing having someone next to you in a manual ICE car who isn't so smooth. It's like having somebody next you on a rowing machine.
Hoofy said:
I see a lot of people posting about the need to plan especially for longer journeys. If I go on staycation, I'm leaving the charging cable behind. I'll just fill up with petrol wherever and let it figure things out for me.
At the risk of going off-topic on my own topic I wouldn't get a Tesla for two reasons (1) my budget was £7k (2) I wanted a hatchback not a family saloon. I do hear that Tesla are very, very good at what they do, though.
I get that and it’s valid! I didn’t want a Tesla because of the whole Musk thing but basically got forced into one. I had it 6 months, decided EVs were great and swapped the wife’s car for an EX30 (the fast one) which turned out to be terrible in every way.At the risk of going off-topic on my own topic
I wouldn't get a Tesla for two reasons (1) my budget was £7k (2) I wanted a hatchback not a family saloon. I do hear that Tesla are very, very good at what they do, though.I’d not trust the Volvo, but happy to do Sheffield to Exeter or Sheffield Glasgow and back in the muskmobile.
Anyway back on topic
Mr MXT said:
I get that and it s valid! I didn t want a Tesla because of the whole Musk thing but basically got forced into one. I had it 6 months, decided EVs were great and swapped the wife s car for an EX30 (the fast one) which turned out to be terrible in every way.
I d not trust the Volvo, but happy to do Sheffield to Exeter or Sheffield Glasgow and back in the muskmobile.
That sounds disappointing. They (EX30s) look so modern, you'd think they were very good at everything.I d not trust the Volvo, but happy to do Sheffield to Exeter or Sheffield Glasgow and back in the muskmobile.
Mouse Rat said:
The Golf GTE nailed the brief from day 1. We had ours about 8 years ago. Drove in EV mode or GTE mode. GTE was perfect as it was electric assistant the engine.
All other hybrids, BMW, Jag, Merc never been as good.
Looks like I got lucky, then! What was wrong with the ones you mentioned? I thought all PHEVs were the same give or take battery size!All other hybrids, BMW, Jag, Merc never been as good.
I have an Audi A5 e hybrid. Its got quattro 4 wheel drive so the instant torque jerk is smoothed a bit more as its transmitted across both axles.
The EV can do about 70 miles on its own.
With both engine and battery engaged its got 300 hp and 450 torques.
The only down side is its a 2+ tonne car.
Im yet to do a properly long journey in it to see how far I can get on a full charge and a full tank but in 2000 miles of driving Im only on my 6th tank of petrol.
I plug in at home every 2 -3 days. My commute is a 30 mile round trip.
The EV can do about 70 miles on its own.
With both engine and battery engaged its got 300 hp and 450 torques.
The only down side is its a 2+ tonne car.
Im yet to do a properly long journey in it to see how far I can get on a full charge and a full tank but in 2000 miles of driving Im only on my 6th tank of petrol.
I plug in at home every 2 -3 days. My commute is a 30 mile round trip.
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