Discussion
I've just had my XC60 back from the garage after its annual service. Like quite a few cars nowadays it doesn't have a dipstick and you have to check the oil level via the computer. That's fine in principle but
1. How do you check the quality of the oil?
2. How could you check that the oil has actually been changed?
An old school mate of mine does all my servicing so i have faith in him but sometimes mistakes can be made. I guess one way of checking would be to make sure the oil filter had been swapped?
Also - what exactly is the benefit of deleting the dipstick?
1. How do you check the quality of the oil?
2. How could you check that the oil has actually been changed?
An old school mate of mine does all my servicing so i have faith in him but sometimes mistakes can be made. I guess one way of checking would be to make sure the oil filter had been swapped?
Also - what exactly is the benefit of deleting the dipstick?
From Chat GPT:
Mainly because modern engines are designed around electronic oil-level monitoring rather than a physical dipstick.
There are a few reasons:
I actually think the dipstick remains useful, particularly for enthusiasts. An electronic reading can tell you how much oil the car thinks it has, but a physical dipstick lets you see:
Mainly because modern engines are designed around electronic oil-level monitoring rather than a physical dipstick.
There are a few reasons:
- Electronic sensors: A level sensor in the sump measures oil quantity and reports it through the car’s display. Some systems can also estimate oil condition and temperature.
- More accurate measurement: The ECU can compensate for oil temperature and other factors, whereas a dipstick only gives a simple physical level.
- Packaging: Modern engine bays are extremely crowded. Removing the dipstick tube gives manufacturers more freedom around the engine, intake and exhaust systems.
- Reduced emissions: Eliminating the dipstick tube and its sealing arrangements can marginally reduce potential oil-vapour/emissions issues.
- Service intervals: Modern cars often have much longer oil-change intervals, so manufacturers assume the owner will rely on the electronic system and scheduled servicing.
- Engine design: Some engines have a more complex sump arrangement where electronically measuring the oil level under controlled conditions is easier than getting a reliable dipstick reading.
I actually think the dipstick remains useful, particularly for enthusiasts. An electronic reading can tell you how much oil the car thinks it has, but a physical dipstick lets you see:
- the actual oil level
- oil colour and contamination
- whether the oil looks unusually thin/thick
- potential fuel or coolant contamination
- whether the engine is consuming oil over time
Pica-Pica said:
Have you checked there is no dipstick? My 335d has no declared dipstick, just electronic notification; BUT it does actually have a dipstick.
Here on the F30, perhaps yours is hidden
Hmmm.....I was sure there wasn't (in fact IIRC the Dealer (non-Volvo) told me there wasn't)) but the Internet seems to suggest that there actually IS one but is near invisible from above (and apparently there's something called a "Police Dipstick" extension for it).Here on the F30, perhaps yours is hidden
I shall have a look when it finally stops raining...
I guess it saves about £2.50 for the manufacturer. But I bet 99.99% of the population don't bother to manually check their oil levels these days, either because it's not something they even consider or simply rely on the electronic monitor and the scheduled service.
To be honest I can't remember the last time I've had to top up on oil, certainly not any of our more recent cars. Probably our old Mk1 Focus which we ran over halfway to the moon and maybe once or twice it needed a small top up between services over the 12 years we had it.
To be honest I can't remember the last time I've had to top up on oil, certainly not any of our more recent cars. Probably our old Mk1 Focus which we ran over halfway to the moon and maybe once or twice it needed a small top up between services over the 12 years we had it.
Countdown said:
I've just had my XC60 back from the garage after its annual service. Like quite a few cars nowadays it doesn't have a dipstick and you have to check the oil level via the computer. That's fine in principle but
1. How do you check the quality of the oil?
2. How could you check that the oil has actually been changed?
An old school mate of mine does all my servicing so i have faith in him but sometimes mistakes can be made. I guess one way of checking would be to make sure the oil filter had been swapped?
Also - what exactly is the benefit of deleting the dipstick?
1) Not easy - invoice might show what was put in. 1. How do you check the quality of the oil?
2. How could you check that the oil has actually been changed?
An old school mate of mine does all my servicing so i have faith in him but sometimes mistakes can be made. I guess one way of checking would be to make sure the oil filter had been swapped?
Also - what exactly is the benefit of deleting the dipstick?
2) Unless you drain some out not sure you can although perhaps as you say you might be able to see the filter has.
I was happy to see that my Dark Horse does have a dipstick until I realised that it was situated under the brace across the engine bay and is a real faff to pull out and check so a electronic reading would have been far easier !
Edited by alscar on Thursday 17th September 18:13
Driversmatter said:
From Chat GPT:
Mainly because modern engines are designed around electronic oil-level monitoring rather than a physical dipstick.
There are a few reasons:
Some of those make sense but some are irrelevant points - the joys of AI I guess.Mainly because modern engines are designed around electronic oil-level monitoring rather than a physical dipstick.
There are a few reasons:
- Electronic sensors: A level sensor in the sump measures oil quantity and reports it through the car s display. Some systems can also estimate oil condition and temperature.
- More accurate measurement: The ECU can compensate for oil temperature and other factors, whereas a dipstick only gives a simple physical level.
- Packaging: Modern engine bays are extremely crowded. Removing the dipstick tube gives manufacturers more freedom around the engine, intake and exhaust systems.
- Reduced emissions: Eliminating the dipstick tube and its sealing arrangements can marginally reduce potential oil-vapour/emissions issues.
- Service intervals: Modern cars often have much longer oil-change intervals, so manufacturers assume the owner will rely on the electronic system and scheduled servicing.
- Engine design: Some engines have a more complex sump arrangement where electronically measuring the oil level under controlled conditions is easier than getting a reliable dipstick reading.
Also "reduced emissions".......wtf?
Stupidest omission of all stupid omissions. Car thinks it knows best, tells you to add a litre, then changes it's mind after you add said litre of oil and tells you it's overfilled. There's a lot more to be gained by actually being able to look at the oil, other than just if the car's using it or not.
It's on a par with rain sensing wipers for pointless inventions that are answering questions no-one asked.
It's on a par with rain sensing wipers for pointless inventions that are answering questions no-one asked.
Heaveho said:
Stupidest omission of all stupid omissions. Car thinks it knows best, tells you to add a litre, then changes it's mind after you add said litre of oil and tells you it's overfilled. There's a lot more to be gained by actually being able to look at the oil, other than just if the car's using it or not.
It's on a par with rain sensing wipers for pointless inventions that are answering questions no-one asked.
It's on a par with rain sensing wipers for pointless inventions that are answering questions no-one asked.
I wonder if it’s also an age thing ?
I have never had any issue with wanting to check the oil ( assuming a dipstick ) but perhaps these days it’s more a lack of interest generally ?
Some cars certainly seem to need a top up especially when new - my Dark Horse certainly did during the first year and the ideal stated limit was halfway up the 2 marks.
Tyre pressures ( OT ) but I wonder how often people check those ?
Had a newish E Class in for an oil change last week. Only electronic measurement is available and only after engine has been off for 30mins.
If oil change quantity is 4litres I usually put in just short of that and then bring it up to max a bit at a time, run the car and let it settle and see how much the level has dropped filling the filter. If I have to wait 30mins between each reading that isn't feasible.
Had to put the amount stated in the book, and run it without any check, then wait 30mins to get my first reading. PITA
If oil change quantity is 4litres I usually put in just short of that and then bring it up to max a bit at a time, run the car and let it settle and see how much the level has dropped filling the filter. If I have to wait 30mins between each reading that isn't feasible.
Had to put the amount stated in the book, and run it without any check, then wait 30mins to get my first reading. PITA
Two of mine don't have them, you just have to trust the dealer/garage they have changed the oil.
One it tells you on the dash if the level is ok at start-up, the other you have to make sure the car is level and engine up to temperature, then you have to select check oil level via a menu and a long drawn out process takes place...I am nearly snoring by then..!!!
One it tells you on the dash if the level is ok at start-up, the other you have to make sure the car is level and engine up to temperature, then you have to select check oil level via a menu and a long drawn out process takes place...I am nearly snoring by then..!!!
Stick your finger in the oil filler cap and see what comes out on the end of it (ooh-er!) will give some indication as to what your oil is like. However, if you do lots of short trips there can be condensation that high up in the engine.
- Do this with engine cold and off unless you like Darwin awards.
Decky_Q said:
Had a newish E Class in for an oil change last week. Only electronic measurement is available and only after engine has been off for 30mins.
If oil change quantity is 4litres I usually put in just short of that and then bring it up to max a bit at a time, run the car and let it settle and see how much the level has dropped filling the filter. If I have to wait 30mins between each reading that isn't feasible.
Had to put the amount stated in the book, and run it without any check, then wait 30mins to get my first reading. PITA
Seems odd that it's 30 mins - I used to have an older Merc and the idea was to wait a couple of mins or so as that's the amount of time you'd be stopped to refuel.If oil change quantity is 4litres I usually put in just short of that and then bring it up to max a bit at a time, run the car and let it settle and see how much the level has dropped filling the filter. If I have to wait 30mins between each reading that isn't feasible.
Had to put the amount stated in the book, and run it without any check, then wait 30mins to get my first reading. PITA
Having said that, the engine had to be hot - maybe that's what's blocking you?
Decky_Q said:
Had a newish E Class in for an oil change last week. Only electronic measurement is available and only after engine has been off for 30mins.
If oil change quantity is 4litres I usually put in just short of that and then bring it up to max a bit at a time, run the car and let it settle and see how much the level has dropped filling the filter. If I have to wait 30mins between each reading that isn't feasible.
Had to put the amount stated in the book, and run it without any check, then wait 30mins to get my first reading. PITA
Yep, total pain in the arse when doing oil changes. I'm exactly the same as you in that I like to fill it a little short then top up to the correct amount once I have a reading. Last time I changed the oil on our BMW, I couldn't get a reading at all when I started the car. Turned out, it was a slightly weird electrical issue relating to a failing water pump. I topped the oil up a little but basically had to drive it 'blind' for a week or so before I replaced the water pump. All because we can't just have a bloody dipstick! If oil change quantity is 4litres I usually put in just short of that and then bring it up to max a bit at a time, run the car and let it settle and see how much the level has dropped filling the filter. If I have to wait 30mins between each reading that isn't feasible.
Had to put the amount stated in the book, and run it without any check, then wait 30mins to get my first reading. PITA
That said the dipstick in my Fiat is made of brown plastic. I can stare at it for a very long time and still have absolutely no idea where the oil level is.
It isn't a new "feature", at least not on BMWs.
My 2005 330i doesn't have a dipstick but to be fair the electronic one works pretty well, although it is a bit slow to react after a top up. But it only works once the engine is up to temperature which is handy on a car that doesn't have a temperature gauge of any sort either.
My 2005 330i doesn't have a dipstick but to be fair the electronic one works pretty well, although it is a bit slow to react after a top up. But it only works once the engine is up to temperature which is handy on a car that doesn't have a temperature gauge of any sort either.
alscar said:
Heaveho said:
Stupidest omission of all stupid omissions. Car thinks it knows best, tells you to add a litre, then changes it's mind after you add said litre of oil and tells you it's overfilled. There's a lot more to be gained by actually being able to look at the oil, other than just if the car's using it or not.
It's on a par with rain sensing wipers for pointless inventions that are answering questions no-one asked.
It's on a par with rain sensing wipers for pointless inventions that are answering questions no-one asked.
I wonder if it s also an age thing ?
I have never had any issue with wanting to check the oil ( assuming a dipstick ) but perhaps these days it s more a lack of interest generally ?
Some cars certainly seem to need a top up especially when new - my Dark Horse certainly did during the first year and the ideal stated limit was halfway up the 2 marks.
Tyre pressures ( OT ) but I wonder how often people check those ?
It makes no sense to me to add a level of detachment that potentially just adds an inconvenience. How many times do people really use the dash function and get the car to go through the procedure of measuring the oil? So in that respect, it isn't adding anything.
I have a compressor at home and check the tyre pressures on everything I own weekly. Physical interaction with a car is a good way of pre-empting problems you may otherwise miss until it's already causing you an issue you may have avoided.
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