Dodgey Dealers et al
Discussion
So, I'm looking at buying a new car, I've got about £3,600 in the kitty. I hop on Autotrader, pull off a couple of possibilities...
Today my Dad has a couple of site meetings in High Wycombe, Weybridge & Surbiton, so, we take my car, and between High Wycombe and the other 2 we head into Middlesex to see 2 of the 3 cars, the first being a 2003 Renault Megane 1.4 Dynamique in Hayes, so we drive into this place, off Harlington High Street and its a big open area with razor wire fences built on concrete slabs, VW Sharan mini-cabs being cleaned at one end, cars lined up all around the edges and a bunch of confused looking Indians repairing smashed up cars, which are for sale, in the middle. Needless to say, we turned right around and outta there!
So... We then we head into West Ealing to see a 2005 Honda Jazz SE Sport 1.4i-DSI, after about an hour to an hour and a half sitting in traffic to go just 3mi in today's baking hot sun in a car with no A/C we pull up outside, I can see the Honda gleaming away at the back, this place is literally a banner with the dealer name on it, a couple of old, manky sheds and a battered port-a-potty... Dad says 'No way' and we drive off, at this point I'm totally gutted.
We head to the last two meetings, the last of which is just 2mi away from the 2004 Renault Clio 1.2 16v Dynamique I want to see, so I drop Dad off and go off to see it, I follow my SatNav to Kingston Road, Surbiton and find myself at what was once an old car dealership and petrol station, under the canonpy are people washing cars and along side the old empty showroom are about 25 or so cars parked in rows, bumper to bumper with a rough looking chap, ossibly from Iraq(?) pacing between them. I ask to look inside the Clio, he walks up to the boot of a green Rover saloon at the back, and chucks me a key, I have a look around, play with all the gizmos, electric sunroof, leccy mirrors, gearbox, stereo fingertip controls and climate control system, I like, I get out and open the bonnet, all the plastic trim is still there, it's nice and clean looks good, I close the bonnet, and look at each side where it joins the wings, looks find, I run my hand along the passenger side gap, it fits, but the top of the headlight unit sticks up a little, so I do the same to the other side, it's not quite aligned... I push the bumper, it's all tight and fits nicely, I check all ther panel gaps and think, maybe it just needs the wing adjusting, simple enough. There's nothing on the autotrader advert or on their deceptively smart website about being a Cat C or D Write-off, as many I've come accross have, and the price seems to fit with normal Clios, I give back the keys and as I do so, spot a 2003 VW Polo S 1.2, I ask him about it "It will be on for Three-Seven, thinks... But paperwork has not come through, hopefully in week." so I ask the milage, he digs the key out of the boot of this Rover and goes and checks, I leave, tell him I'm going to get my Dad from his meeting to come and have a look with me. As I'm turning around the man comes up and motions for me to lower my window, he says "You like? You know, the one you look at, Clio, is Catagory C, you know what that mean?" - I nod. - "Nothing mechanically wrong with car, great car, drive real nice, lovelly car, yes, it just had new bumper." he continues... - "Ah, oookkaaay, and the Polo?" I ask nervously. - "Yes Catagory C too" - "Okay, BYE!"
At this point, I'm majorly pissed off, I've spent my whole day trapsing around looking for cars only to be let down big time. This last place in particular as it's the end of a very long, hot and tiring day, surely they have to advertise the fact that they're previous right-offs? And then to lie to me as well, on a near £4,000 car, a crash that requires the replacement of a bumper doesn't make it a Cat C, a Cat C is going to be far more serious than a single goddamn bumper. I wind my window and boot it away, properly pissed off.
Does anybody actually buy cars from places like this? Seriously, how do they get any business?! You'd have to be totally stupid to commit yourself to the purchase of a car from Dodgey Dealers or Pirates with dodgey cars who have set up business on empty property. They all have very nice, smart, flash websites which are extremely decieving. Threr's nothing I can do about these places is there, like, reporting them to Trading Standards or anything? I suppose because he told me before I bought the car (even though I wasn't even considering it after seeing theis place) that it was a Cat C Write-off, he hasn't technically done anything wrong...?
Today my Dad has a couple of site meetings in High Wycombe, Weybridge & Surbiton, so, we take my car, and between High Wycombe and the other 2 we head into Middlesex to see 2 of the 3 cars, the first being a 2003 Renault Megane 1.4 Dynamique in Hayes, so we drive into this place, off Harlington High Street and its a big open area with razor wire fences built on concrete slabs, VW Sharan mini-cabs being cleaned at one end, cars lined up all around the edges and a bunch of confused looking Indians repairing smashed up cars, which are for sale, in the middle. Needless to say, we turned right around and outta there!
So... We then we head into West Ealing to see a 2005 Honda Jazz SE Sport 1.4i-DSI, after about an hour to an hour and a half sitting in traffic to go just 3mi in today's baking hot sun in a car with no A/C we pull up outside, I can see the Honda gleaming away at the back, this place is literally a banner with the dealer name on it, a couple of old, manky sheds and a battered port-a-potty... Dad says 'No way' and we drive off, at this point I'm totally gutted.
We head to the last two meetings, the last of which is just 2mi away from the 2004 Renault Clio 1.2 16v Dynamique I want to see, so I drop Dad off and go off to see it, I follow my SatNav to Kingston Road, Surbiton and find myself at what was once an old car dealership and petrol station, under the canonpy are people washing cars and along side the old empty showroom are about 25 or so cars parked in rows, bumper to bumper with a rough looking chap, ossibly from Iraq(?) pacing between them. I ask to look inside the Clio, he walks up to the boot of a green Rover saloon at the back, and chucks me a key, I have a look around, play with all the gizmos, electric sunroof, leccy mirrors, gearbox, stereo fingertip controls and climate control system, I like, I get out and open the bonnet, all the plastic trim is still there, it's nice and clean looks good, I close the bonnet, and look at each side where it joins the wings, looks find, I run my hand along the passenger side gap, it fits, but the top of the headlight unit sticks up a little, so I do the same to the other side, it's not quite aligned... I push the bumper, it's all tight and fits nicely, I check all ther panel gaps and think, maybe it just needs the wing adjusting, simple enough. There's nothing on the autotrader advert or on their deceptively smart website about being a Cat C or D Write-off, as many I've come accross have, and the price seems to fit with normal Clios, I give back the keys and as I do so, spot a 2003 VW Polo S 1.2, I ask him about it "It will be on for Three-Seven, thinks... But paperwork has not come through, hopefully in week." so I ask the milage, he digs the key out of the boot of this Rover and goes and checks, I leave, tell him I'm going to get my Dad from his meeting to come and have a look with me. As I'm turning around the man comes up and motions for me to lower my window, he says "You like? You know, the one you look at, Clio, is Catagory C, you know what that mean?" - I nod. - "Nothing mechanically wrong with car, great car, drive real nice, lovelly car, yes, it just had new bumper." he continues... - "Ah, oookkaaay, and the Polo?" I ask nervously. - "Yes Catagory C too" - "Okay, BYE!"
At this point, I'm majorly pissed off, I've spent my whole day trapsing around looking for cars only to be let down big time. This last place in particular as it's the end of a very long, hot and tiring day, surely they have to advertise the fact that they're previous right-offs? And then to lie to me as well, on a near £4,000 car, a crash that requires the replacement of a bumper doesn't make it a Cat C, a Cat C is going to be far more serious than a single goddamn bumper. I wind my window and boot it away, properly pissed off.
Does anybody actually buy cars from places like this? Seriously, how do they get any business?! You'd have to be totally stupid to commit yourself to the purchase of a car from Dodgey Dealers or Pirates with dodgey cars who have set up business on empty property. They all have very nice, smart, flash websites which are extremely decieving. Threr's nothing I can do about these places is there, like, reporting them to Trading Standards or anything? I suppose because he told me before I bought the car (even though I wasn't even considering it after seeing theis place) that it was a Cat C Write-off, he hasn't technically done anything wrong...?
Summarised for those who couldnt be bothered to read the long version
op said:
I wanted to buy a used car. I drove to 2 places but based upon their appearance (foreigners) left without even looking at the cars, the third I liked the car but the salesman told me it was a category c write off so I didnt. Oh no, life is so hard.
And I guess most people will join me in saying why would you expect a place selling sub 5 grand cars to be operating in shiny high street premises with their accompanying overheads? I dont really see the relevance of their supposed nationality either.Like you I am amazed how these places stay in business.I am a car dealer with a small showroom and prepare my cars to a very high standard and only sell decent stock.
The vast majority of my customers have done their homework on the internet pricewise and go over any potential purchase with a very fine toothcomb,asking all the right questions regarding fsh,cambelts,mot,hpi,owners etc.I have no objection to this and like to spend time with customers going over everything so they are happy and they have all the information on a car they need.I even had 1 guy who had downloaded a 100 point checklist on a particular car and checked off every item on it before buying(he was there all afternoon!!)
I guess the point I am trying to make is that the public has never been better informed about used cars and even individual dealers(which in my view is a very good thing as it allows the respectable traders to florish),so any 'dodgy' used car sellers have a very difficult time in this day and age!
The vast majority of my customers have done their homework on the internet pricewise and go over any potential purchase with a very fine toothcomb,asking all the right questions regarding fsh,cambelts,mot,hpi,owners etc.I have no objection to this and like to spend time with customers going over everything so they are happy and they have all the information on a car they need.I even had 1 guy who had downloaded a 100 point checklist on a particular car and checked off every item on it before buying(he was there all afternoon!!)
I guess the point I am trying to make is that the public has never been better informed about used cars and even individual dealers(which in my view is a very good thing as it allows the respectable traders to florish),so any 'dodgy' used car sellers have a very difficult time in this day and age!
shouldbworking said:
Summarised for those who couldnt be bothered to read the long version
I was expecting a normal used car dealership, such as this one: http://www.milestonegarage.co.uk/18969/index.htmop said:
I wanted to buy a used car. I drove to 2 places but based upon their appearance (foreigners) left without even looking at the cars, the third I liked the car but the salesman told me it was a category c write off so I didnt. Oh no, life is so hard.
And I guess most people will join me in saying why would you expect a place selling sub 5 grand cars to be operating in shiny high street premises with their accompanying overheads? I dont really see the relevance of their supposed nationality either.local to me, which sells a mix of cars, used to sell petrol too, and does Servicing and MOTs for many of the locals. It was nothing to do with nationalities, but for the Megane, it was painfully clear that something was not right, the number of smashed up cars in the middle being fixed up with FOR SALE signs on them. Then this second place, where the Honda was, was literally, just off the a busy High Street but looked like a Mumbai Slum, it just screamed 'dodgey dealers'
low end of the market you have to sift a lot of s
t to find the good ones. When I was looking for my current Omega two examples:
1. London, portacabin next to a car wash. I had rung in advance asked lots of questions - yes the car is in excellent condition, no problems, everything works. SO when I get there and notice the dent in the back, missing trim and damaged seats he says 'oh yeah. but apart from those its in great condition' ffs. I drove an hour to look at this thing
2. Up north 2 hour drive, again I called in advance. After last experience I ask very detailed questions. any damage outside or in ? nope says dealer Im walking around the car now, nothing at all inside or out this is a total minter. I get there and ask him which bit of 'minter' covers the 3 inch rust circle on the passenger door, the missing drivers side seat back , no coolant , flat battery and 2 flat tyres. you can guess whats coming ' well yeah but apart from that its a great car...'
Luckily the 3rd one was a real minter and made me very happy.
t to find the good ones. When I was looking for my current Omega two examples:1. London, portacabin next to a car wash. I had rung in advance asked lots of questions - yes the car is in excellent condition, no problems, everything works. SO when I get there and notice the dent in the back, missing trim and damaged seats he says 'oh yeah. but apart from those its in great condition' ffs. I drove an hour to look at this thing
2. Up north 2 hour drive, again I called in advance. After last experience I ask very detailed questions. any damage outside or in ? nope says dealer Im walking around the car now, nothing at all inside or out this is a total minter. I get there and ask him which bit of 'minter' covers the 3 inch rust circle on the passenger door, the missing drivers side seat back , no coolant , flat battery and 2 flat tyres. you can guess whats coming ' well yeah but apart from that its a great car...'
Luckily the 3rd one was a real minter and made me very happy.
Waugh-terfall said:
And then to lie to me as well, on a near £4,000 car, a crash that requires the replacement of a bumper doesn't make it a Cat C, a Cat C is going to be far more serious than a single goddamn bumper.
A new bumper could quite easily make a £4000 a write off.
okgo said:
Is that opposite the river that place in Surbiton?
There are some seriously dodgy car outlets springing up full of anything but english people.
Here:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j58/Waugh-terfal...
matt uk said:
OP, in your price bracket what on earth were you expecting???
And why did you not filter your AT search to 'private' if you didn't want to deal with bottom-end used car companies?
Read up a littleAnd why did you not filter your AT search to 'private' if you didn't want to deal with bottom-end used car companies?
Nolar Dog said:
Waugh-terfall said:
And then to lie to me as well, on a near £4,000 car, a crash that requires the replacement of a bumper doesn't make it a Cat C, a Cat C is going to be far more serious than a single goddamn bumper.
A new bumper could quite easily make a £4000 a write off.
Edited by Waugh-terfall on Wednesday 15th April 22:44
Nolar Dog said:
Waugh-terfall said:
And then to lie to me as well, on a near £4,000 car, a crash that requires the replacement of a bumper doesn't make it a Cat C, a Cat C is going to be far more serious than a single goddamn bumper.
A new bumper could quite easily make a £4000 a write off.
Waugh-terfall said:
okgo said:
Is that opposite the river that place in Surbiton?
There are some seriously dodgy car outlets springing up full of anything but english people.
Here:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j58/Waugh-terfal...
tepit too.okgo said:
Waugh-terfall said:
okgo said:
Is that opposite the river that place in Surbiton?
There are some seriously dodgy car outlets springing up full of anything but english people.
Here:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j58/Waugh-terfal...
tepit too.Personally, speaking from the trade point of view, I would go more by the person selling than the premises.
I do agree, to an extent sometimes you look at some traders buying at auction and I think to myself just who would buy a car from these people? That usually covers a minority of people (actually most car traders are just normal people who just happen to be dealing in cars rather than IT parts, oil tools, financial services etc.) but a basic command of English might be a good thing.
Car trading premesis are, however, surprsingly expensive. They do not come under normal A/B class retailing or business use but require specific permission for car retailing and/or car movements. This means that any old bit of land or offices will not do if you wish to be legal. Once the permission is in place, of course, because it is rare the price goes up. More significant than rental values are the rates. A normal bit of hardstanding will have a ratable value of about £3/m. Add car permission and it increases to at least £20-£50/m. Add in a workshop and a showroom and a relatively small outfit can be looking at a £50,000 rates bill without even trying.
A typical industrial/warehouse style unit with, say, room for 15 cars indoors and 15 cars outside will probably cost in a typical rural town, say £20,000 rent plus £20,000 RV as a regular unit. Make it a car retail site with permission and it'll be £100,000+.
For a business selling at a lower end making, say, £500 per car and stocking 15-20 cars this is unrealistic and some land plus some sort of admin building is probably as much as can be afforded.
I do agree, to an extent sometimes you look at some traders buying at auction and I think to myself just who would buy a car from these people? That usually covers a minority of people (actually most car traders are just normal people who just happen to be dealing in cars rather than IT parts, oil tools, financial services etc.) but a basic command of English might be a good thing.
Car trading premesis are, however, surprsingly expensive. They do not come under normal A/B class retailing or business use but require specific permission for car retailing and/or car movements. This means that any old bit of land or offices will not do if you wish to be legal. Once the permission is in place, of course, because it is rare the price goes up. More significant than rental values are the rates. A normal bit of hardstanding will have a ratable value of about £3/m. Add car permission and it increases to at least £20-£50/m. Add in a workshop and a showroom and a relatively small outfit can be looking at a £50,000 rates bill without even trying.
A typical industrial/warehouse style unit with, say, room for 15 cars indoors and 15 cars outside will probably cost in a typical rural town, say £20,000 rent plus £20,000 RV as a regular unit. Make it a car retail site with permission and it'll be £100,000+.
For a business selling at a lower end making, say, £500 per car and stocking 15-20 cars this is unrealistic and some land plus some sort of admin building is probably as much as can be afforded.
I'm actually looking into a little sideline of selling cars for around £2k, but I must admit the market to get some "decent" metal is very limited as to what I can see. If anyone knows where I can gets cars please let me know. I'm sure I can do a better job than what you've witnessed Tom!
I know what you mean, has me worried about some cars. Speaking of which, could anyone check up on this for me if they get a free moment and have the resources? It's perfect, but the dealer is a little worrying:
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/RENA...
And OP, I have already put a deposit down on this car, so although it may be what you're looking for, don't even try!
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/RENA...
And OP, I have already put a deposit down on this car, so although it may be what you're looking for, don't even try!
Edited by Hairspray on Wednesday 15th April 23:43
My strong advice to you is buy PRIVATE. Any warranties you get will either be crap or not for very long and in this day and age you can buy warranties yourself from reputable companies.
There are lots of genuine private cars out there just find a nice low owner car with a full history that feels right, nice house, well kept etc etc. Make sure you HPI if you really intend to buy your narrowed down choice and you'll find a car far nicer than the dealers you have approached so far.
Afterall, dealers are there to make a profit, unlike the private seller. Just my opinion
There are lots of genuine private cars out there just find a nice low owner car with a full history that feels right, nice house, well kept etc etc. Make sure you HPI if you really intend to buy your narrowed down choice and you'll find a car far nicer than the dealers you have approached so far.
Afterall, dealers are there to make a profit, unlike the private seller. Just my opinion
My experience tells me that if you are spending £0k-£4k its better to buy private with FSH and do a £10 RAC/Hpi check.
My last car I bought privately and it ran spot on for 2 years and 30k miles with only tyres, oil and filter being needed.
I recently went car shopping with a budget of £2400.
One dealer, had so many cars with 40-something on the clock it was unreal. Shiny steering wheels, worn seats and pedals galore...
Another dealer was trying to sell a car which had more warning lights on than I knew existed. When I said to him he said "oh it just needs reset", plugs in a gizmo via USB and all the lights go out...sounded like it was running on margarine...
My last car I bought privately and it ran spot on for 2 years and 30k miles with only tyres, oil and filter being needed.
I recently went car shopping with a budget of £2400.
One dealer, had so many cars with 40-something on the clock it was unreal. Shiny steering wheels, worn seats and pedals galore...
Another dealer was trying to sell a car which had more warning lights on than I knew existed. When I said to him he said "oh it just needs reset", plugs in a gizmo via USB and all the lights go out...sounded like it was running on margarine...
Hairspray said:
I know what you mean, has me worried about some cars. Speaking of which, could anyone check up on this for me if they get a free moment and have the resources? It's perfect, but the dealer is a little worrying:
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/RENA...
And OP, I have already put a deposit down on this car, so although it may be what you're looking for, don't even try!
It's over-priced, I'm going to look at an identical car tomorrow. oh, does anybody know where to get the black plastic trim around the front foglight from?http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/RENA...
And OP, I have already put a deposit down on this car, so although it may be what you're looking for, don't even try!
Edited by Hairspray on Wednesday 15th April 23:43
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