Old school Big GT cars
Poll: Old school Big GT cars
Total Members Polled: 344
Discussion
Ok, thought I would post a poll of RWD luxury coupes/cruisers from yesteryear.
So ladies and gentleman,take your pick and get voting and pick wisely, whether it be for engineering prowess, looks or an all round combination!
First off- the BMW M635 CSi
Paul Bracqs Masterpiece shape carrying all the classic BMW cues-such as the "Hoffmeister kink" C pillar and the Agressive shark nose , 13 degree semi trailing arm rear suspension with BMWs double pivot fron Mac Pherson lay out and typical BMW racing amounts of Castor (carry over E28)
Engine is the racing herritage M88/3. This 24 valve unit-which racing mastermind Paul Rosche Helped develop first saw the light of day in the racing E9 BMW CSLs of the 1970s- with phenomenal outputs in the order of 700-800 Bhp.
It was then fitted in the middle engined M1 with dry sump lubrication and kugel fischer mechnical fuel injection (277 Bhp). For the M6 the M88./3 engine was fitted with Motronic DME fuel injection , lost its dry sump. It now produced 286 Bhp. Unlike the M30 and M20s of the same era this car had direct acting mechnical bucket tappets (no hydraulic tappets, individual thorttle bodies per cylinder and a forged heat treated steel 12 counter weight 7 bearing crankshaft. Make no mistake this was a racing engine tamed for the road. Although the E24 6 series never quite attained the racing success of its predessor the E9 3 litre CSLs- it had herritage aplenty.
Next off we have the Porsche 928- probably the 6 series closest competitor
A technological show case that looked positively space age when released in the 1970s.
Had the poly urethane 'bumperless' body, alot of use of aluminium in the body, the patented Weissach rear axle that was the first in a production car to sport 'elasto kinematics' where selective use of bushing and geometry forced the load bearing rear wheel to toe in- to maintain stability on hard corners even when lifting off.
Engine was the Hypereutectic Block water cooled V8. The block was an open deck design and the crank was forged and clamped in place with a bed plate for maximum rigidity. The last evolution of this engine was a 32 valve affair, with driven by a 7 foot long toothed belt and had a 5.4 litre capacity and made about 345-350 Bhp.The intake system featured a variable resonance manifold that boosted torque throughout the rev range.
Next we have the Corvette. A C4 to be precise. I've pictured the ZR1. The engine was a Lotus developed version of the LT5- 5.7 litres with 32 valves , quad cams, and sporting about 380 Bhp.
Styling differences between this and the stock C4 are subtle including a revised rear panel.
You will see on the engine that there are twin runners per cylinder- where 8 can be deactivated for 'safe' driving mode.
Next up is the home grown Jaguar XJS
Styling by Malcolm Sayer- the same chap who did the styling of the E type Jaguar.
Some people thought the XJS was a dissappointment styling wise over teh E type, but today you can't argue that these look unique and are classics.
The V12 engine started life as a 5.3 and initially there was no 6 cylinder engine availiable (XK was not fitted to the XJS). At the time there were very few premium V12s. BMW didnt do one, neither did Mercedes or Porsche. Ferrari were about the only others that did. The engine later evolved to a 6 litre and was fitted with Zytek engine management. The talented team of engne designers included Claude Bailey and Wally Hassan (both originally from Coventry Climax). The Jag V12 sported direct acting mechanical bucket valve train, SOHC per bank and the later ones had the ultra high compression ratio Michael May 'HE' cylinder heads.
Suspension was othordox Jaguar, with double wishbones all around, and common upperwishbones/driveshafts at the rear. Earlier XJSs had in board discs for lower unsprung mass.
And finally we have the classic and ultra refined Mercedes "R107" SL. The 5 litre V8 only wheezed out about 231 Bhp at 4700 rpm but the later 5.6 560 SL sported about 300 in thelate eighties.This Mercedes enjoyed a very long production run from the early seventies until the late eighties.
Nick named 'Panzer' by its creators -which refered to how toughly they were built and their weight compared to the previous 60s generation SLs.
So ladies and gentleman,take your pick and get voting and pick wisely, whether it be for engineering prowess, looks or an all round combination!
First off- the BMW M635 CSi
Paul Bracqs Masterpiece shape carrying all the classic BMW cues-such as the "Hoffmeister kink" C pillar and the Agressive shark nose , 13 degree semi trailing arm rear suspension with BMWs double pivot fron Mac Pherson lay out and typical BMW racing amounts of Castor (carry over E28)
Engine is the racing herritage M88/3. This 24 valve unit-which racing mastermind Paul Rosche Helped develop first saw the light of day in the racing E9 BMW CSLs of the 1970s- with phenomenal outputs in the order of 700-800 Bhp.
It was then fitted in the middle engined M1 with dry sump lubrication and kugel fischer mechnical fuel injection (277 Bhp). For the M6 the M88./3 engine was fitted with Motronic DME fuel injection , lost its dry sump. It now produced 286 Bhp. Unlike the M30 and M20s of the same era this car had direct acting mechnical bucket tappets (no hydraulic tappets, individual thorttle bodies per cylinder and a forged heat treated steel 12 counter weight 7 bearing crankshaft. Make no mistake this was a racing engine tamed for the road. Although the E24 6 series never quite attained the racing success of its predessor the E9 3 litre CSLs- it had herritage aplenty.
Next off we have the Porsche 928- probably the 6 series closest competitor
A technological show case that looked positively space age when released in the 1970s.
Had the poly urethane 'bumperless' body, alot of use of aluminium in the body, the patented Weissach rear axle that was the first in a production car to sport 'elasto kinematics' where selective use of bushing and geometry forced the load bearing rear wheel to toe in- to maintain stability on hard corners even when lifting off.
Engine was the Hypereutectic Block water cooled V8. The block was an open deck design and the crank was forged and clamped in place with a bed plate for maximum rigidity. The last evolution of this engine was a 32 valve affair, with driven by a 7 foot long toothed belt and had a 5.4 litre capacity and made about 345-350 Bhp.The intake system featured a variable resonance manifold that boosted torque throughout the rev range.
Next we have the Corvette. A C4 to be precise. I've pictured the ZR1. The engine was a Lotus developed version of the LT5- 5.7 litres with 32 valves , quad cams, and sporting about 380 Bhp.
Styling differences between this and the stock C4 are subtle including a revised rear panel.
You will see on the engine that there are twin runners per cylinder- where 8 can be deactivated for 'safe' driving mode.
Next up is the home grown Jaguar XJS
Styling by Malcolm Sayer- the same chap who did the styling of the E type Jaguar.
Some people thought the XJS was a dissappointment styling wise over teh E type, but today you can't argue that these look unique and are classics.
The V12 engine started life as a 5.3 and initially there was no 6 cylinder engine availiable (XK was not fitted to the XJS). At the time there were very few premium V12s. BMW didnt do one, neither did Mercedes or Porsche. Ferrari were about the only others that did. The engine later evolved to a 6 litre and was fitted with Zytek engine management. The talented team of engne designers included Claude Bailey and Wally Hassan (both originally from Coventry Climax). The Jag V12 sported direct acting mechanical bucket valve train, SOHC per bank and the later ones had the ultra high compression ratio Michael May 'HE' cylinder heads.
Suspension was othordox Jaguar, with double wishbones all around, and common upperwishbones/driveshafts at the rear. Earlier XJSs had in board discs for lower unsprung mass.
And finally we have the classic and ultra refined Mercedes "R107" SL. The 5 litre V8 only wheezed out about 231 Bhp at 4700 rpm but the later 5.6 560 SL sported about 300 in thelate eighties.This Mercedes enjoyed a very long production run from the early seventies until the late eighties.
Nick named 'Panzer' by its creators -which refered to how toughly they were built and their weight compared to the previous 60s generation SLs.
Damn I can only vote once. Grr. 
Isn't the Blue Sl a 350sl 3.5litre?
560 sl was from 85 to 89, 500 sl was only available from 1980 to 89, with the 350 from 71, 450 from 71 to 80 IIRC.
Youtube vid of R/W107
Isn't the Blue Sl a 350sl 3.5litre?
560 sl was from 85 to 89, 500 sl was only available from 1980 to 89, with the 350 from 71, 450 from 71 to 80 IIRC.
Youtube vid of R/W107
Edited by Uhura_Fighter on Wednesday 17th June 23:30
Out of this lot, the 928 S4 was the one I actually owned, worked on and used as an every day car from 1998 until 2004. I changed the radiator, clutch, belt and all sorts.
The BMW M6 I have alot of experience of, as I grew up in BMW circles and hung out with mechanics in dealerships and I have lots of driving miles behind the wheel of an M635 CSi, it was always the car I promised myself but went for the 928 instead, looking back- I still wonder if I should own an M6.
The XJS and that V12 engine imparticular, I knew alot of engineers who helped develop that engine when I was at Jag. Especially the 6 litre and again have driven a few. It was always a velvet gloved monster I had the utmost respect for.
I also knew some of the engineers from the original team involved in the LT5 ZR-1 engine- there was a phase when Lotus guys jumped ship from Lotus to Jag. I always got the impression that this was a very robust engine!
The Merc R107 I remember fondly from when I was 17 because the neighbor had one. He used to let me drive him to partys -drop him off, have the car for the evening and pick him up again later, when he was drunk. At that time a 5 litre engine was mind blowing, and this thing did 0-60 in 7 secs! It was the first automatic I ever drove. the ride quality and super refined engine note always amazed me, and if I close my eyes I can still here the hum of the high pressure KE jetronic fuel injection pumps.
The BMW M6 I have alot of experience of, as I grew up in BMW circles and hung out with mechanics in dealerships and I have lots of driving miles behind the wheel of an M635 CSi, it was always the car I promised myself but went for the 928 instead, looking back- I still wonder if I should own an M6.
The XJS and that V12 engine imparticular, I knew alot of engineers who helped develop that engine when I was at Jag. Especially the 6 litre and again have driven a few. It was always a velvet gloved monster I had the utmost respect for.
I also knew some of the engineers from the original team involved in the LT5 ZR-1 engine- there was a phase when Lotus guys jumped ship from Lotus to Jag. I always got the impression that this was a very robust engine!
The Merc R107 I remember fondly from when I was 17 because the neighbor had one. He used to let me drive him to partys -drop him off, have the car for the evening and pick him up again later, when he was drunk. At that time a 5 litre engine was mind blowing, and this thing did 0-60 in 7 secs! It was the first automatic I ever drove. the ride quality and super refined engine note always amazed me, and if I close my eyes I can still here the hum of the high pressure KE jetronic fuel injection pumps.
Uhura_Fighter said:
Isn't the Blue Sl a 350sl 3.5litre?
Youtube vid of R/W107
Yes probably, well spotted. It was difficult, because strictly speaking the ZR-1 was out when the E24 BMW had finished production- but I still 'felt' they should both be there!Youtube vid of R/W107
Edited by Uhura_Fighter on Wednesday 17th June 23:30
Marquis_Rex said:
Uhura_Fighter said:
Stuff
Yes probably, well spotted. It was difficult, because strictly speaking the ZR-1 was out when the E24 BMW had finished production- but I still 'felt' they should both be there!Great poll/thread
orginal marketing video for the R107 Merc SL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4MYbED18hI
Scary thing is I can understand most of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4MYbED18hI
Scary thing is I can understand most of it
Marquis_Rex said:
orginal marketing video for the R107 Merc SL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4MYbED18hI
Scary thing is I can understand most of it
Real scary thing is that video was in my favourites/bookmarks already.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4MYbED18hI
Scary thing is I can understand most of it
(As is the start of american gigilo)
Edited by Uhura_Fighter on Thursday 18th June 02:13
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